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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (14 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,921
Grendel said:
Rees Mogg has zero chance of getting into power.

They are not seen as anti elite but anti establishment - it really means they don’t go with the establishment as it stands - in this instance the Brussels cosy club
Click to expand...

Cosy club sounds better than disaster capitalism and a deregulated free for all.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,922
martcov said:
Cosy club sounds better than disaster capitalism and a deregulated free for all.
Click to expand...
Deregulated free for all? Is that FOM in a nutshell?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,923
martcov said:
Cosy club sounds better than disaster capitalism and a deregulated free for all.
Click to expand...

Not really because it’s aim is to benefit the few at the expense of the many.

It’s why most snout in the trough politicians (pretty much all the tories including it’s leader and the blood stained Blair creature and his Chief of Staff Campbell) can’t get enough of it

It’s also why die hard conviction politicians like Corbyn and McDonnell want out.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,924
Grendel said:
Rees Mogg has zero chance of getting into power.

They are not seen as anti elite but anti establishment - it really means they don’t go with the establishment as it stands - in this instance the Brussels cosy club
Click to expand...

I agree he'l probably never be PM, but he may be firmly behind the man that is.

There's a quote in piece about him in Politico which quotes an anonymous Tory minister as saying, "he may never be king but he could be king maker".

And Rees Mogg doesn't actually care about the EU, he just cares about making money for him and his neo liberal pals.
He sees a no deal Brexit as an ideal opportunity to follow the philosophy laid out in his fathers book which I mentioned earlier. He's used it as a manual for his life, he doesn't care one jot for the ordinary working class or middle class person in this country.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and martcov

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,925
Grendel said:
Not really because it’s aim is to benefit the few at the expense of the many.

It’s why most snout in the trough politicians (pretty much all the tories including it’s leader and the blood stained Blair creature and his Chief of Staff Campbell) can’t get enough of it

It’s also why die hard conviction politicians like Corbyn and McDonnell want out.
Click to expand...

who do you class as not a snout in the trough politician?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,926
Astute said:
Deregulated free for all? Is that FOM in a nutshell?
Click to expand...

No. As it is regulated... you have to be self sufficient after 90 days . Not enforced in the UK.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,927
Grendel said:
Not really because it’s aim is to benefit the few at the expense of the many.

It’s why most snout in the trough politicians (pretty much all the tories including it’s leader and the blood stained Blair creature and his Chief of Staff Campbell) can’t get enough of it

It’s also why die hard conviction politicians like Corbyn and McDonnell want out.
Click to expand...

That was never it’s aim. You made that up. As usual. Which is why they have helped countries like Romania who you despise and have said you don’t want a penny of yours going to them.

As for snouts in the trough, the absolute supreme example being UKIP MEP members who are only know in Brussels for their drinking sessions in Place Luxemburg in Brussels.

McDonnell seems to be weakening his stance and even suggested a people’s vote with remain could be a solution should an election not be forthcoming.

Still, you claim to be well off and have a guaranteed tax free pension of 3000 a month, so you are, in comparison to most on here, one of the few. Rees Mogg would be better for your circumstances. Cheap people to wash your car, polish your boots etc..
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,928
If I hear Rees-Mogg say shoes on people feet one more time I’d quite happily knock him out. He’s a condescending prick who thinks the common folk should be grateful to him because his “policies” will put shoes on people feet. If ever he comes into power I fully expect him to form an orderly queue of us peasants so we can take a turn each in doffing the cap and saying thank you squire for the shoes. It’s becoming very much a let them eat cake moment.

Still. Since his little rebellion crushed itself though impotence hopefully that’s the end of his political career.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,929
clint van damme said:
who do you class as not a snout in the trough politician?
Click to expand...

None of them. Call me cynical but they’re all out for themselves. A handful maybe not but I’m struggling to come up with a name.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,930
martcov said:
No. As it is regulated... you have to be self sufficient after 90 days . Not enforced in the UK.
Click to expand...

That’s the thing, it’s not properly regulated or enforced in the UK.

Based on my experience in Italy you have 3 months to register as a resident, which includes your ID, contract of employment that proves you can afford your rent and prove that you are registered as a taxpayer. This is then followed up with the local police coming to your residence to check your ID and to make sure you actually live there.

Without that I wouldn’t have access to healthcare or any public services, you have to show your medical card or Italian ID document to access services.

There is nothing of the like going on here in the UK
 
Reactions: Captain Dart and martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,931
martcov said:
No. As it is regulated... you have to be self sufficient after 90 days . Not enforced in the UK.
Click to expand...

It’s also regulated in this country by available work. We have record lows in unemployment and the group that finishes in first place for percentage employed is EU immigrants, the demographic that’s shrinking. Last is non EU immigrants, the demographic that’s growing. Details here.

UK and non-UK people in the labour market - Office for National Statistics

  • The employment rate (the proportion of people aged from 16 to 64 years who were in work) was 81.9% for EU nationals, higher than that for UK nationals (75.6%) and higher than that for non-EU nationals (63.0%).
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,932
skybluetony176 said:
hopefully that’s the end of his political career.
Click to expand...

For what reason?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,933
martcov said:
That was never it’s aim. You made that up. As usual. Which is why they have helped countries like Romania who you despise and have said you don’t want a penny of yours going to them.

As for snouts in the trough, the absolute supreme example being UKIP MEP members who are only know in Brussels for their drinking sessions in Place Luxemburg in Brussels.

McDonnell seems to be weakening his stance and even suggested a people’s vote with remain could be a solution should an election not be forthcoming.

Still, you claim to be well off and have a guaranteed tax free pension of 3000 a month, so you are, in comparison to most on here, one of the few. Rees Mogg would be better for your circumstances. Cheap people to wash your car, polish your boots etc..
Click to expand...
McDonnell has definitely softened his stance on the EU.
Plenty of evidence to indicate that in interviews with him and the people around him over the last couple of years.
Cornyn hasn't. Surprised it hadn't lead to a rift between them or if it has that it doesn't seem to be public knowledge.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,934
clint van damme said:
McDonnell has definitely softened his stance on the EU.
Plenty of evidence to indicate that in interviews with him and the people around him over the last couple of years.
Cornyn hasn't. Surprised it hadn't lead to a rift between them or if it has that it doesn't seem to be public knowledge.
Click to expand...

Only because he wants the top job
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,935
SIR ERNIE said:
For what reason?
Click to expand...

Because he’s a snake who clearly tried to bullshit a resignation out of the PM.
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,936
skybluetony176 said:
Because he’s a snake who clearly tried to bullshit a resignation out of the PM.
Click to expand...

His submission of a letter of no confidence was perfectly justified.
Why should that mean the end of his political career?
 
Last edited: Dec 1, 2018

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,937
martcov said:
No. As it is regulated... you have to be self sufficient after 90 days . Not enforced in the UK.
Click to expand...
So where is it enforced? Even illegal immigrants can't be removed easily.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,938
Astute said:
So where is it enforced? Even illegal immigrants can't be removed easily.
Click to expand...

I’ve already told you it’s enforced in Italy, if you don’t and abide by the rules then you lose access to residency and healthcare and other public services. Again, it’s a EU rule that the UK does not use to the full extent that it could do.

Illegal immigrants can’t be removed easily? What’s that based on? Once they’re found they are usually deported without many problems. I would presme you mean those who have claimed asylum and failed, and the disappeared?
 
Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,939
Astute said:
So where is it enforced? Even illegal immigrants can't be removed easily.
Click to expand...

Other EU countries, but not the UK. Why do you think this is?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,940
SIR ERNIE said:
His submission of a letter of no confidence was perfectly justified.
Why should that mean the end of his political career?
Click to expand...

90% of Conservative MPs disagree with you on that. He has been outed as a rat by his failure in his coup.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,941
fernandopartridge said:
Ok. I'll give you an example. The mandatory contracting out of public services driven by the public contracts directive, it has led to widespread privatisation and decline in wages and conditions.
Click to expand...
...and service quality

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,942
Sick Boy said:
I’ve already told you it’s enforced in Italy, if you don’t and abide by the rules then you lose access to residency and healthcare and other public services. Again, it’s a EU rule that the UK does not use to the full extent that it could do.

Illegal immigrants can’t be removed easily? What’s that based on? Once they’re found they are usually deported without many problems. I would presme you mean those who have claimed asylum and failed, and the disappeared?
Click to expand...
We have been through all this before. When you try to deport someone we then get into the human rights issues. Even Germany has problems deporting anyone.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,943
martcov said:
Other EU countries, but not the UK. Why do you think this is?
Click to expand...
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Redirect Notice
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,944
Grappa said:
Can someone give me an example of how the EU has impacted negatively their daily life.
Click to expand...
How about office closure to move to 'cheaper" Eastern Europe country where cheaper labour is on offer? And the freedom of movement which led to over supply of punters thus keeping wages lower, & created a greater demand for home rental/purchasing which drove up rental/property prices that now mean my one son cannot afford to move out & the other cannot afford to pay his student loan & mortgage at the same time so has to be subsidised by me? Or how about the fact that it has led to this thread & several nauseating contributors who reap the benefits of the EU whilst deriding anyone else who doesn't get them & wishes to leave?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: dutchman

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,945
SIR ERNIE said:
His submission of a letter of no confidence was perfectly justified.
Why should that mean the end of his political career?
Click to expand...

Not so sure about justified, especially if the yard stick is members of the ERG. I’m actually referring to the BS coming out of him and his band of merry little men. On the Thursday before May’s big Friday press conference where everyone was expecting May to resign almost all political reporters were saying that they’ve been given information from members of the ERG and others and believe that there are 48 letters plus at least a dozen more been handed over by the time the six o’clock news was on. By the time question time was on the number being thrown around was 84 and May’s resignation was a sure thing. Fridays big press conference and the bluff was called, on Sunday the likes of Rees-Mogg and co were saying that they’ll have the required 48 letters on Monday, then it was by the end of the week. Most recently it’s patience is a virtue. They tried to conn a resignation out of her and spectacularly failed showing themselves up for exactly what they are in the process.
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,946
Astute said:
So where is it enforced? Even illegal immigrants can't be removed easily.
Click to expand...

Illegal immigrants wouldn’t have been entitled to anything anyway. The clue is the word illegal.
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,947
skybluetony176 said:
They tried to conn a resignation out of her
Click to expand...

No that's not the way it works and the only con in this saga is may's leave deal.
 
Reactions: dutchman

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,948
skybluetony176 said:
Illegal immigrants wouldn’t have been entitled to anything anyway. The clue is the word illegal.
Click to expand...
Are you saying that illegal immigrants don't get anything?

And why not mention that all countries have problems removing anyone. Even Italy where SB says they don't have a problem. Although he will say that I am putting words into mouths.....


Redirect Notice
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,949
SIR ERNIE said:
No that's not the way it works and the only con in this saga is may's leave deal.
Click to expand...

It isn’t the way it works. That’s why it failed. Didn’t stop the slimy gits trying it though.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,950
Astute said:
Are you saying that illegal immigrants don't get anything?

And why not mention that all countries have problems removing anyone. Even Italy where SB says they don't have a problem. Although he will say that I am putting words into mouths.....


Redirect Notice
Click to expand...

If an illegal immigrant applies for benefits they get caught and shipped out. You don’t seem to understand that there’s a difference between illegal immigrants and asylum seekers who enter a country illegally and claim asylum.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,951
SkyblueBazza said:
How about office closure to move to 'cheaper" Eastern Europe country where cheaper labour is on offer? And the freedom of movement which led to over supply of punters thus keeping wages lower, & created a greater demand for home rental/purchasing which drove up rental/property prices that now mean my one son cannot afford to move out & the other cannot afford to pay his student loan & mortgage at the same time so has to be subsidised by me? Or how about the fact that it has led to this thread & several nauseating contributors who reap the benefits of the EU whilst deriding anyone else who doesn't get them & wishes to leave?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

that will happen whether in or our of the EU.
Plenty of companies have moved to China and the far east.
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,952
skybluetony176 said:
If an illegal immigrant applies for benefits they get caught and shipped out. You don’t seem to understand that there’s a difference between illegal immigrants and asylum seekers who enter a country illegally and claim asylum.
Click to expand...
Do you not read the links?

Countries have problems sending anyone anywhere when they don't have documents showing who they are. Most of them throw away their documents if they have any. So how can you send anyone anywhere if that country won't accept them?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,953
Astute said:
Do you not read the links?

Countries have problems sending anyone anywhere when they don't have documents showing who they are. Most of them throw away their documents if they have any. So how can you send anyone anywhere if that country won't accept them?
Click to expand...

Most of them? Not sure asylum seekers have time to put in a passport application before fleeing a war zone but whatever.

So tell me. This most. Are they claiming asylum on entry?
 
G

Grappa

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,954
SkyblueBazza said:
How about office closure to move to 'cheaper" Eastern Europe country where cheaper labour is on offer? And the freedom of movement which led to over supply of punters thus keeping wages lower, & created a greater demand for home rental/purchasing which drove up rental/property prices that now mean my one son cannot afford to move out & the other cannot afford to pay his student loan & mortgage at the same time so has to be subsidised by me? Or how about the fact that it has led to this thread & several nauseating contributors who reap the benefits of the EU whilst deriding anyone else who doesn't get them & wishes to leave?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

How does the EU lower the wages in other countries to make office relocation feasible? I think that's more a case of a greedy company tbh.

And again, the EU isn't at fault for the lack of housing being built in the UK. We have very low unemployment, and we need to fill positions. Post-freedom of movement, barring an economic crisis, which the brexiteers seem confident will not happen, we will still need immigration to fill the positions. Otherwise we will be in recession. And the funny thing is, the new immigrants will be brown! I'm fine with that but I'm sure the more racist brexiters will be chuffed to see more visible immigrants 'taking over' our schools, housing and hospitals.

'Nauseating contributors'? Have a word with yourself.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Dec 1, 2018
  • #24,955
Grappa said:
And again, the EU isn't at fault for the lack of housing being built in the UK.
Click to expand...
This particular ludicrous drum isn't still being banged, surely...?
 
Reactions: martcov and Sick Boy
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