The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (8 Viewers)

clint van damme · Jul 25, 2018

martcov said:
We are employing more people than ever before. There are 3,5 million EU citizens living and working here and 1 point something unemployed. Send home legal migrants and the economy collapses. Just on the maths. If you revert to 70s Britain , as Corbyn is suggesting, the government ends up directly or indirectly, supporting inefficiency and medium term the economy will collapse.

If you increase and control the minimum wage, you increase domestic demand and put pressure on firms to increase efficiency to get the best out of the workforce.

At least it would be worth a try. We know how 70s Britain ended, why go back down that road? We need a younger leader of the opposition and to get away from Corbyn‘s hankering after his youth.

We also need to stay in the CU and SM. Relying on millionaires and dodgy politicians promising sailing into a glorious sunset outside of the relative safety of a domestic market of 500 million people is a risky venture.

I agree with much of what you say but I just think it's a bit rich that Corbyn is being criticised for sticking to what he put in the manifesto.
If people wanted the result of the referendum ignored they should have voted lib dem.

As you know I voted remain but the result was what it was. I have said the only way I would support a second referendum is if the leave campaign were found guilty of electoral fraud. Now even though they have been I'm not sure if the current charges are serious enough to demand another vote.

Sick Boy · Jul 25, 2018

clint van damme said:
the last Labour manifesto said they would respect the result of the referendum. Corbyn is sticking to what Labour pledged. If people didn't read the manifesto properly that's their fault.
He hasn't deceived anyone with regard to this issue.
I still maintain there is ambiguity about what leave means but I don't think we're ever going to clear that one up. Personally, I think it would be best if we remain in the customs union.

He doesn't want to remain in the customs union, he seems to want to cherry pick and create a new one. I do agree that he hasn't deceived anyone but IMO a significant number voted for him as somehow stopping it.

clint van damme · Jul 25, 2018

Sick Boy said:
He doesn't want to remain in the customs union, he seems to want to cherry pick and create a new one. I do agree that he hasn't deceived anyone but IMO a significant number voted for him as somehow stopping it.

but why? The manifesto was clear. I'm not sure what peoples problem is.
Like I say, I voted remain and still think it would have been by far the best option but I still don't see how people can have a go at a politician for sticking to their manifesto. I wish more would do it.

Sick Boy · Jul 25, 2018

clint van damme said:
I agree with much of what you say but I just think it's a bit rich that Corbyn is being criticised for sticking to what he put in the manifesto.
If people wanted the result of the referendum ignored they should have voted lib dem.

As you know I voted remain but the result was what it was. I have said the only way I would support a second referendum is if the leave campaign were found guilty of electoral fraud. Now even though they have been I'm not sure if the current charges are serious enough to demand another vote.

I think it's more likely to end up being a vote on the final deal, whether the option would include remaining remains to be seen, personally I don't think it would be an option available.

Sick Boy · Jul 25, 2018

clint van damme said:
but why? The manifesto was clear. I'm not sure what peoples problem is.
Like I say, I voted remain and still think it would have been by far the best option but I still don't see how people can have a go at a politician for sticking to their manifesto. I wish more would do it.

I'm not disagreeing with you but there are going to be a large number who would probably not vote for him now. If an election were held tomorrow I probably wouldn't even vote which is a very sad state of affairs for me as I believe everyone should do but I couldn't bring myself to vote for any of them.

clint van damme · Jul 25, 2018

Sick Boy said:
I think it's more likely to end up being a vote on the final deal, whether the option would include remaining remains to be seen, personally I don't think it would be an option available.

I can see that happening and hopefully it would return something like the Norway option, but it would also be a dereliction of duty by the politicians and a warning in any future referendums to make it crystal clear what we are voting for.

The whole thing is a total mess.

Sick Boy · Jul 25, 2018

clint van damme said:
I can see that happening and hopefully it would return something like the Norway option, but it would also be a dereliction of duty by the politicians and a warning in any future referendums to make it crystal clear what we are voting for.

The whole thing is a total mess.

I think the EEA option or in all but name will be the eventual outcome with a brake on FoM if in the national interest.

It was being bandied about by Leavers as an option and would still deliver on leaving the EU.

torchomatic · Jul 25, 2018

clint van damme said:
but why? The manifesto was clear. I'm not sure what peoples problem is.
Like I say, I voted remain and still think it would have been by far the best option but I still don't see how people can have a go at a politician for sticking to their manifesto. I wish more would do it.

Mmm...true, but at the end of the day Corbyn and his front bench are blindly following the Tories and will be complicit in making our country poorer. Thousands of jobs will be lost, the economy will tank and we're seeing Matt Hancock admitting we are stockpiling medicines and Raab saying we are stockpiling food. It's all fine and dandy toeing the "will of the people" line, but what about the rest of the people who didn't vote for Brexit?

I suppose when Britain turns to shit Corbyn and his cult can say that they stuck by the manifesto, so all will be fine with the world. As a life-long socialist and Labour voter to say I am disappointed with Corbyn is an understatement.

torchomatic · Jul 25, 2018

Sick Boy said:
I think it's more likely to end up being a vote on the final deal, whether the option would include remaining remains to be seen, personally I don't think it would be an option available.

We can but hope. You can see how the country has become since the Brexit vote. The racists and xenophobes are certainly more vocal and visual than they used to be. Not helped by Farage, etc. We have the Free Tommy Robinson lot too. Britain is a scarier and less tolerant place than it was before June 2016.

martcov · Jul 25, 2018

Sick Boy said:
I think the EDA option or in all but name will be the eventual outcome with a brake on FoM if in the national interest.

It was being bandied about by Leavers as an option and would still deliver on leaving the EU.

The whole FOM is a red herring. Firstly we have profited from it. And secondly it will, in the end, take care of itself as other Eastern countries catch up. Non EU and illegal immigration will be more of a challenge in the future.

SkyblueBazza · Jul 25, 2018

martcov said:
Voted for Brexit. Slurred Germans such as my daughter. Some dubious politicians and journalists like to call the EU which we are part of, the 4. Reich, EUSSR and a German Super State, not to mention the absolutely stupid, and really predictable selfharming handling of Brexit.

Or to mention taking some of my rights off me and probably damaging the economy of the region in which I live and work.

It is not my fault that the nation has made itself look bad/silly/ incompetent.

I made several TV and press Interviews the day after Brexit saying that it was a stupid decision and would end in chaos and that the Irish border would be a major problem. I am not a genius and anyone away from the propaganda in the U.K. could see that coming.

Don’t blame me or other „snowflake“ remoaners for Britain becoming laughing stock.

I still think we will get a deal through May, but we will pay the 40 million and, in effect, stay in the CU and SM. No one will be happy and our established parties will split, and the eventual reunification of Ireland will be advanced by decades.

Enjoy your full English Brexit.

They are all negatives...for the UK. Revel in it...coz you obviously love it. But please stop spreading your diatribe on here

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

clint van damme · Jul 25, 2018

torchomatic said:
Mmm...true, but at the end of the day Corbyn and his front bench are blindly following the Tories and will be complicit in making our country poorer. Thousands of jobs will be lost, the economy will tank and we're seeing Matt Hancock admitting we are stockpiling medicines and Raab saying we are stockpiling food. It's all find and dandy tagging the "will of the people" line, but what about the rest of the people who didn't vote for Brexit?

I suppose when Britain turns to shit Corbyn and his cult can say that they stuck by the manifesto. As a live-long socialist and Labour voter to say I am disappointed with Corbyn is an understatement.

that's fair comment and you've never been a fan but it drives me mad when politician campaign on a manifesto and then rip it up once they get elected, (I think the only major policy Cameron actually delivered on was the referendum), so I can't criticise him for sticking to it though he could be pushing for a 'soft' brexit which he isn't.
Unbelievable that we've gone from 350 million extra for the NHS to stockpiling food in 2 years. Why didn't they put that on the side of the bus?

torchomatic · Jul 25, 2018

clint van damme said:
that's fair comment and you've never been a fan but it drives me mad when politician campaign on a manifesto and then rip it up once they get elected, (I think the only major policy Cameron actually delivered on was the referendum), so I can't criticise him for sticking to it though he could be pushing for a 'soft' brexit which he isn't.
Unbelievable that we've gone from 350 million extra for the NHS to stockpiling food in 2 years. Why didn't they put that on the side of the bus?

No, I've never been a fan. A life-long back bencher does not a leader make. Anyway, we are where we are, but May and Corbyn are no different to each other and are leading us to a disaster, but what can you do? I am hoping that there will be some kind of vote on the final deal - if we get one.

I know what you mean about the manifesto and by and large political parties should stick to them, but sometimes it isn't wise. Brexit really does transcend party politics, so if he has to rip up the manifesto and stomp on the pieces in doc martens to facilitate a better outcome for Britain then that is what he should do. Obviously, he won't. But hey, I can dream!

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 25, 2018

torchomatic said:
No, I've never been a fan. A life-long back bencher does not a leader make. Anyway, we are where we are, but May and Corbyn are no different to each other and are leading us to a disaster, but what can you do? I am hoping that there will be some kind of vote on the final deal - if we get one.

I know what you mean about the manifesto and by and large political parties should stick to them, but sometimes it isn't wise. Brexit really does transcend party politics, so if he has to rip up the manifesto and stomp on the pieces in doc martens to facilitate a better outcome for Britain then that is what he should do. Obviously, he won't. But hey, I can dream!

More likely he'd go the other way!

Actually, I could see the logic of a left-leaning Brexit (state aid! Keynesian economics! Nationalisation!) but of course that's not what we'd get!

martcov · Jul 25, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
They are all negatives...for the UK. Revel in it...coz you obviously love it. But please stop spreading your diatribe on here

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

What? I am not allowed to critise the biggest cock up in post war Britain because you don’t like it? There is only one answer to that snowflake. Go and cry somewhere else.

torchomatic · Jul 25, 2018

clint van damme · Jul 25, 2018

torchomatic said:
View attachment 10241

number 14 - Rees Moggs investment funds, (newly relocated to EU locations) make a killing!

Sick Boy · Jul 25, 2018

clint van damme said:
that's fair comment and you've never been a fan but it drives me mad when politician campaign on a manifesto and then rip it up once they get elected, (I think the only major policy Cameron actually delivered on was the referendum), so I can't criticise him for sticking to it though he could be pushing for a 'soft' brexit which he isn't.
Unbelievable that we've gone from 350 million extra for the NHS to stockpiling food in 2 years. Why didn't they put that on the side of the bus?

Even Rees Mogg is saying that any Brexit dividend that could happen could be in 50 years.

martcov · Jul 25, 2018

clint van damme said:
number 14 - Rees Moggs investment funds, (newly relocated to EU locations) make a killing!

nothing to do with Brexit apparently. Just demand from clients... funny that the clients are demanding to have funds in the EU as opposed to Britain... and the warnings issued by Somerset capital were only done because their lawyers told them they had to issue warnings about Brexit effects on investment... and Rees Mogg claims that we will be booming in 50 years... so everything is just fine... at least for Rees Mogg and his investors.

Cov City Daytrader 87 · Jul 25, 2018

torchomatic said:
The racists and xenophobes are certainly more vocal and visual than they used to be. Not helped by Farage, etc. We have the Free Tommy Robinson lot too. .

There's always going to be a small element mindless yobbos who are xenophobes and racists. The rest are decent people. What you are seeing on T.V is basically the mainstream media demonising UKIP/ Free Tommy Robinson by blowing it up and sensationalize it, so that you buy into it by agreeing: 'OH yes they're evil', instead of reporting the truth. And guess what you fell their narrative because know how to play with you emotions, they know you're easy to manipulated and they know that you're a sucker so that you can't think for yourself.

skybluetony176 · Jul 25, 2018

Sick Boy said:
Even Rees Mogg is saying that any Brexit dividend that could happen could be in 50 years.

By which point our children will probably have successfully campaigned for us to rejoin the EU and adopt the Euro.

skybluetony176 · Jul 25, 2018

clint van damme said:
number 14 - Rees Moggs investment funds, (newly relocated to EU locations) make a killing!

Setting up an office in Ireland aren’t they?

torchomatic · Jul 25, 2018

Cov City Daytrader 87 said:
There's always going to be a small element mindless yobbos who are xenophobes and racists. The rest are decent people. What you are seeing on T.V is basically the mainstream media demonising UKIP/ Free Tommy Robinson by blowing it up and sensationalize it, so that you buy into it by agreeing: 'OH yes they're evil', instead of reporting the truth. And guess what you fell their narrative because know how to play with you emotions, they know you're easy to manipulated and they know that you're a sucker so that you can't think for yourself.

Call me blinkered but ANYONE who sympathises with Tommy Robinson is a racist and a xenophobe. Maybe they don't realise it.

Spare me from the "free speech", "Main stream media manipulation" bollocks.

clint van damme · Jul 25, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Setting up an office in Ireland aren’t they?

yeah, think they've just set up a second office.

ccfchoi87 · Jul 25, 2018

Nice to the see the left wing back to normal. Throwing out insults to anyone who disagrees. I really enjoy reading the debates on this thread between people who know a lot more than me. But why is someone a lunatic or a racist because they disagree with you?

torchomatic · Jul 25, 2018

ccfchoi87 said:
Nice to the see the left wing back to normal. Throwing out insults to anyone who disagrees. I really enjoy reading the debates on this thread between people who know a lot more than me. But why is someone a lunatic or a racist because they disagree with you?

Someone isn't a racist if they disagree with me. Someone IS a racist if they try to tell me Tommy Robinson is a nice bloke. He's a c**t. A racist c**t.

martcov · Jul 25, 2018

Cov City Daytrader 87 said:
There's always going to be a small element mindless yobbos who are xenophobes and racists. The rest are decent people. What you are seeing on T.V is basically the mainstream media demonising UKIP/ Free Tommy Robinson by blowing it up and sensationalize it, so that you buy into it by agreeing: 'OH yes they're evil', instead of reporting the truth. And guess what you fell their narrative because know how to play with you emotions, they know you're easy to manipulated and they know that you're a sucker so that you can't think for yourself.

Actually the people blowing it up are those campaigning to free Tommy. Robinson is a well known thug and crook who pleaded guilty to what he was accused of and will do time which he was told would happen. That should have been the end of it.

But, he is now a martyr in the war against Islam. There is no war. There are extremists on both sides and we should be against all of them including people like Bannon who claims that Tommy Robinson represents the backbone of Britain.

ccfchoi87 · Jul 25, 2018

torchomatic said:
Someone isn't a racist if they disagree with me. Someone IS a racist if they try to tell me Tommy Robinson is a nice bloke. He's a c**t. A racist c**t.

Oh right I obviously haven't seen enough of him. What has he said that's racist? They are a lunatic if they disagree with you though?

Sick Boy · Jul 25, 2018

ccfchoi87 said:
Nice to the see the left wing back to normal. Throwing out insults to anyone who disagrees. I really enjoy reading the debates on this thread between people who know a lot more than me. But why is someone a lunatic or a racist because they disagree with you?

Insults are often traded by both sides on here. Those on the right are just as good at insulting others.

It makes me laugh that those further to the right label the EU as a socialist superstate and those further to the left label it a capitalist club, shows to me it must be doing something right.

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 25, 2018

Sick Boy said:
Those on the right are just as good at insulting others.

They seem to end up little crying snowflakes if they get a response in kind, however.

Sick Boy · Jul 25, 2018

ccfchoi87 said:
Oh right I obviously haven't seen enough of him. What has he said that's racist? They are a lunatic if they disagree with you though?

What are your thoughts on them attacking a Union leader at a counter-protest? Oh, and the idiotic cowards harassing and abusing a woman just trying to do her job?

ccfchoi87 · Jul 25, 2018

Sick Boy said:
What are your thoughts on them attacking a Union leader at a counter-protest? Oh, and the idiotic cowards harassing and abusing a woman just trying to do her job?

On who?

torchomatic · Jul 25, 2018

Here's one of those cuddly Tommy Robinson fans.

Sick Boy · Jul 25, 2018

ccfchoi87 said:
On who?

The attacks by his moronic supporters.

Sick Boy · Jul 25, 2018

torchomatic said:
Here's one of those cuddly Tommy Robinson fans.

Vile cowards.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (8 Viewers)

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