The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

Discussion in 'Off Topic Chat' started by jimmyhillsfanclub, Jun 8, 2016.

?

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
  1. Remain

    23 vote(s)
    37.1%
  2. Leave

    35 vote(s)
    56.5%
  3. Undecided

    3 vote(s)
    4.8%
  4. Not registered or not intention to vote

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  1. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Bollocks. I have said all the time that we should stay in the largest trading block in the world as opposed to following the advice of dodgy politicians and millionaires. What is there to despise about that? The EU has more benefits than disadvantages... as we are about to find out. The leavers are the ones wanting us to leave a trading bloc and go it alone in the belief good things will happen. That is faith based like a religion.

    And Reich means Empire as in the Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire or Kaiserreich, the Empire created by Bismarck for Kaiser Wilhem. But, you know that.... even if you get the empires mixed up.
     
  2. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    If anything the referendum has turned largely apathetic remain voters into some of the most pro-EU citizens in the union. Likewise the Leave campaign has done the opposite on the other side. Pre 2016 for the majority the EU would have been low down their list of priorities for the country.

    To claim people voted remain due to fear is absurd.
     
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  3. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Z
    Well you haven’t. For a start you’ve supported an extremely dubious and dodgy billionaire who has trampled over countries by currency speculation to increase wealth. You support the ideology of this very unsavoury individual purely as he bangs the Eu Koran like you.

    You have not just banged on about a trading block but also held the Brussels parliament as a democratic institution that is in fact more democratic than sovereign states. You’ve also spread ludicrous EU diatribe about peace preservation.

    An empire is a Dominian power that exerts authority over others not directly in its control by the way.
     
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  4. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    So no remain voter was not influenced by the £9 million government leaflet of fear? Really?
     
  5. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Soros only came into it as a conspiracy theory figure brought in by someone else.

    Some aspects of Brussels are more democratic than FPTP, the House of Lords and the monarchy. Again brought into the discussion by other people.

    An Empire has an emporer, and governors for it‘s provinces. It doesn’t have article 50. no wonder you get confused.
     
  6. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    What do you think of the German publication Der Spiegel?
     
  7. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    What do you think about the Leave Leaflet of Fear? Claiming Turkey was on the verge of joining and millions of Turks would be heading for the UK? Oh, and of course Syria lightly shaded just to increase fears that little bit more.

    I noticed you went from people voted to remain due to fear to speculating that some voters voted due to fear, BTW.
     
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  8. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Let’s say the leaflet backfired - which has been concluded - and get on to the benefits of Brexit which we will get on day 1.

    What are the tangible benefits ( no pie in the sky please)?
     
  9. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Respectable.
     
  10. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    The leave leaflet didn’t cost £9 million. Do you think the leave leaflet influenced any voters - yes or no?
     
  11. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Did it in 2015 present an argument that the EU is an economic fourth Reich?
     
  12. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea. It says many things and puts across points of view. At the moment it is discussing the options of Steve Bannon and his aim to unite far right parties with contradictory programs.
     
  13. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    With respect you are answering a question with a question. Do you think a leaflet going to every home in the country would have influenced some voters - answer then I will respond to your point.
     
  14. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    It was an information leaflet outlining government policy and published before the campaign „purdah“.

    Anyway.... where are the benefits we can expect on day 1? Convince me how good Brexit is.
     
  15. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Yes Steve Bannon. How many people do you think in the uk would even know who he is? Are there a lot of German media articles that talk about Steve Bannon and his Brexit influences? Do you read these articles?
     
  16. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    Yes I'm sure both influenced votes. That's a long way from your original claim though.

    However, as I said, there's always been those in the UK who are pro-EU. Your original claim about people wanting to remain because of fear was wide of the mark, which I'm sure you know.
     
  17. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    Most people in the UK interested in the current affairs will know who he is.
     
  18. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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  19. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    I’m convinced if the uncertainty did not exist 70% would have wanted out.
     
  20. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Have you done some research on him and Brexit and see where most of the hits occur - is it the uk or German media do you think?

    Do you think Steve Bannon has more influence than £9 million of taxpayers money in a pro remain leaflet sent to every home?

    Did Steve access every home? He never knocked on my door - you?
     
  21. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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  22. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying the £9 million was a neutral appraisal. Good. Can we start a separate thread and go through every point? Can we do that and I’ll argue non neutrality and let’s see who comes out in top?

    So 1 day is more important than the next three of four generations. Why are you diverting?

    Shall I share done German media articles regarding Steve Bannon that sound word for word what you - someone not influenced by the media - says?

    You are struggling.
     
  23. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    He has been on Channel 4, LBC and I think BBC. He was here with his organisation trying to Organise pro Trump activities. He is traveling all around Europe drumming up support for his far right organisation which he is starting with funds from his US backers. He is Farage‘s big buddy and they support each other. According to the SPIEGEL he and Soros have been described as the most influential figures in the EU future. You will here more about Steve Bannon, but his target is Europe and the reforming of the EU into a 4. Reich of right wing states all following Trumpist policies. You’ll like him.
     
  24. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    No, I am not struggling, I want you to list the benefits... and if you cannot, admit that we are in for at least a short term hit. You appear to be struggling... again
     
  25. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    So your views are heavily influenced by the media - yes?
     
  26. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    I said the bollocks you posted was not a neutral appraisal. Nor was the government’s statement of their justification for wanting people to vote remain. It was legat and it is generally thought to have backfired anyway. The difference is that leave broke the law significantly. The government didn’t- apart from in your article which doesn’t explain why they didn’t get prosecuted.
     
  27. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    It's 2018 - social media advertising is going to have much greater effect upon those who are undecided. I'm sure he has had connections to those funding some of those campaigns
     
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  28. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    On day 1 there will be no difference. What’s going to change on March 20?
     
  29. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    No, or at least it is impossible to gauge as I read various sources and don’t sit and watch conspiracy theories in a dark corner of my house.
     
  30. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Probably chaos, but if no great benefits are in sight, what is the point of the debacle? Rees Mogg thinks we will be enjoying the benefits in 50 years. I am 63 and my daughter is 18. How do you sell Brexit to people like us?
     
  31. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Can you provide evidence?
     
  32. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    He is backed by wealthy hedge funds and highly regarded for his use of social media - he grounded the firms Trump used.
     
  33. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    I'm basing it on a feeling like your 70%.

    I do produce FB Ads myself for clients and can tell you it's very very effective.
     
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  34. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    You can bet your bottom dollar that Bannon knows the value of information from social media that you have given these companies. He says that is the price for using the free services. I watched him say that.
     
  35. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    I agree - what age group is influenced the most?
     

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