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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (17 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 17, 2018
  • #11,866
Grendel said:
Do you think if we were not in the EU and were asked to join a referendum would vote in?
Click to expand...

I don't think we would, (if we weren't already in I certainly wouldn't vote for it!). But if we did then maybe there would be the same ambiguity as to what joining actually meant unless it was clearly spelled out pre referendum.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 17, 2018
  • #11,867
Today the Tories have voted against parliamentary scrutiny of any changes to derived employment rights. It'll be left to committees no doubt chock full of schmoozed MPs.

The narrative on Carillion will end up that it was the employees fault for asking for pay and holiday.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 17, 2018
  • #11,868
Sick Boy said:
It is my opinion that Brexit is already dead, it's up to the government how it is handled and announced to the people and how the backlash is dealt with.
Click to expand...

I would argue “brexit is already dead” when article 50 has been triggered and voted for by our House of Commons. It’s just passed phase 1 and on to trade.

Hardly dead is it?

Oh and if the decision is reversed you think 2016 was a shock year. You ain’t seen nothing yet in my opinion if it is indeed reversed.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 17, 2018
  • #11,869
Sick Boy said:
No because they have the luxury of oil...to swing your question on its head, they're in no rush to stop abiding by EU laws or ending FoM for access to the SM market, are they?
Click to expand...

Fair point on the oil. Sure.

To answer your question is simple in that freedom of movement isn’t an issue in Norway from what I’ve read and actually helps in small doses of course. Do they have 4 million eu nationals living there for example? I wouldn’t think so. Clearly the freedom of movement is less of an issue to access of the SM.

The answer is it suits Norway for their agreement and they prosper as a country I think we agree on.

The problem with migrants coming over at will with no control and no checks is the Eastern Europeans ironically aren’t liking this issue with Hungary in particular making it very clear Hungary is a Christian country and they won’t take what they are told to. Good for them I say.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 17, 2018
  • #11,870
Kingokings204 said:
Fair point on the oil. Sure.

To answer your question is simple in that freedom of movement isn’t an issue in Norway from what I’ve read and actually helps in small doses of course. Do they have 4 million eu nationals living there for example? I wouldn’t think so. Clearly the freedom of movement is less of an issue to access of the SM.

The answer is it suits Norway for their agreement and they prosper as a country I think we agree on.

The problem with migrants coming over at will with no control and no checks is the Eastern Europeans ironically aren’t liking this issue with Hungary in particular making it very clear Hungary is a Christian country and they won’t take what they are told to. Good for them I say.
Click to expand...

Well, I don’t know when you last read the bible, but I remember the sentiment being somewhat different to yours and Orban‘s. I would say that Merkel has acted more in line with the bible in helping people fleeing from a war. But you and Farage don’t get that or want to get it.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 17, 2018
  • #11,871
martcov said:
Well, I don’t know when you last read the bible, but I remember the sentiment being somewhat different to yours and Orban‘s. I would say that Merkel has acted more in line with the bible in helping people fleeing from a war. But you and Farage don’t get that or want to get it.
Click to expand...

I admire your ability to type with a pen being held in your mouth.

It’s the only explanation I can offer as you are clearly in a straight jacket in a padded cell.
 
Reactions: Kingokings204

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 17, 2018
  • #11,872
fernandopartridge said:
The narrative on Carillion will end up that it was the employees fault for asking for pay and holiday.
Click to expand...
Wasn't nice to see the Conservatives think the collapse of Carillion was something to laugh about at PMQs today. May was straight in to say it was nothing to do with them. Nothing more than a run of the mill customer according to her.
 
Reactions: martcov, Sick Boy and clint van damme

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 17, 2018
  • #11,873
Grendel said:
What happened? A man who REALLY wanted imus out of the CU and the SM did rather well.

The party who wanted to remain disappeared without trace.
Click to expand...

As I've said to you before, JC's true beliefs will come back to haunt him. I have lost count of conversations I've had with Corbynistas who've claimed he is v anti Brexit
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2018
  • #11,874
Grendel said:
I admire your ability to type with a pen being held in your mouth.

It’s the only explanation I can offer as you are clearly in a straight jacket in a padded cell.
Click to expand...

Just because that is where you are doesn’t mean that I am in the same position. Anyway, it’s lights out soon for you. Sleep well.
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2018
  • #11,875
chiefdave said:
Wasn't nice to see the Conservatives think the collapse of Carillion was something to laugh about at PMQs today.
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't they laugh, they're Tories not human beings? They also laughed when the foodbank figures were revealed in Parliament.
 
Reactions: clint van damme

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2018
  • #11,876
Who was it that said voting for brexit wouldn't mean we would have more control of our borders as the Tories wouldn't fund it?

As expected, the argument turned out to be nonsense. A shit load of money is about to be pumped in.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 18, 2018
  • #11,877
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Who was it that said voting for brexit wouldn't mean we would have more control of our borders as the Tories wouldn't fund it?

As expected, the argument turned out to be nonsense. A shit load of money is about to be pumped in.
Click to expand...

Who'd have thought that the UK would have bowed to French pressure, eh?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2018
  • #11,878
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Who was it that said voting for brexit wouldn't mean we would have more control of our borders as the Tories wouldn't fund it?

As expected, the argument turned out to be nonsense. A shit load of money is about to be pumped in.
Click to expand...

I said it. Funny how you didn't comment about this:
'Dad's Army' volunteers to help Border Force patrol Britain's coastline against people smugglers and crime gangs

We're talking about bolstering what is already in place rather than anything groundbreaking. We had to do this because the French authorities had virtually given up trying to police entry into the UK.
Ask your missus what her or her families or friends experience was of getting into the UK from France this year. I work with loads of Eastern Europeans and they said they couldn't believe how easy entry was compared to previous years so I wouldn't go getting on your high horse yet.
The government will have to spend a lot more than 44 million and pinpoint more than just the tunnel to secure our borders.
If only we had a spare 200 billion, oh, we have, but it's financing PFI deals for the next 20 years!

Osborne slammed over £88 MILLION border cuts that would leave UK open to terror attacks
 
Reactions: martcov and Sick Boy

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2018
  • #11,879
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Who was it that said voting for brexit wouldn't mean we would have more control of our borders as the Tories wouldn't fund it?

As expected, the argument turned out to be nonsense. A shit load of money is about to be pumped in.
Click to expand...
Not sure anyone said it with us funding security in an EU member country even after we leave the EU in mind. Think it’s been said that actually we could have stricter controls on EU migrants coming into the U.K. and working should successive governments have chosen to fund the process to apply this.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2018
  • #11,880
Sick Boy said:
Who'd have thought that the UK would have bowed to French pressure, eh?
Click to expand...

Not like you to put anyone first before the UK is it?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2018
  • #11,881
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Who was it that said voting for brexit wouldn't mean we would have more control of our borders as the Tories wouldn't fund it?

As expected, the argument turned out to be nonsense. A shit load of money is about to be pumped in.
Click to expand...

Like all the Tory promises of "massive increases", it's massive increases after 25% cuts under their watch. I suspect it's still far less than what is actually required.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2018
  • #11,882
clint van damme said:
I said it. Funny how you didn't comment about this:
'Dad's Army' volunteers to help Border Force patrol Britain's coastline against people smugglers and crime gangs

We're talking about bolstering what is already in place rather than anything groundbreaking. We had to do this because the French authorities had virtually given up trying to police entry into the UK.
Ask your missus what her or her families or friends experience was of getting into the UK from France this year. I work with loads of Eastern Europeans and they said they couldn't believe how easy entry was compared to previous years so I wouldn't go getting on your high horse yet.
The government will have to spend a lot more than 44 million and pinpoint more than just the tunnel to secure our borders.
If only we had a spare 200 billion, oh, we have, but it's financing PFI deals for the next 20 years!

Osborne slammed over £88 MILLION border cuts that would leave UK open to terror attacks
Click to expand...

There was someone other than you saying it too. My original point was that the EU had not done enough to protect our borders, which was glaringly obvious. The argument put up was 'well we might as well stay in as the tories won't fund any extra border protection'. I agree that I don't trust them as far as I could throw them either, but I thought that was a bit of a defeatist attitude.

As we can see today they are trying to do something, whether that is some extra fencing or a dad's army platoon. Some leave voters are angry about this, and whilst I can understand that, because the migrants have been allowed to freely congregate in Calais by France and the EU, I won't cut my nose off to spite my face because I think we can all agree that extra border protection is a good thing. It's also good that we have done a deal with the French. It's important for relations moving forward and indicates the two countries can work together on stuff that matters.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2018
  • #11,883
skybluetony176 said:
Not sure anyone said it with us funding security in an EU member country even after we leave the EU in mind. Think it’s been said that actually we could have stricter controls on EU migrants coming into the U.K. and working should successive governments have chosen to fund the process to apply this.
Click to expand...

It's semantics really. I have heard the argument that we are not capable of controlling our borders so we might as well let the EU do it several times.

I know I have said this before, but I don't think migration from within EU countries was as of a massive factor in the referendum vote as many think. Culturally they are much more similar to us than non-EU people and most people know that. Merkel's policies and the EU's reinforcement of it was what tipped that 2% in my opinion.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 18, 2018
  • #11,884
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Not like you to put anyone first before the UK is it?
Click to expand...

Not sure what that has to do with anything that I said? The narrative that people opposed to Brexit are anti-British is utter bollocks.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 18, 2018
  • #11,885
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
It's semantics really. I have heard the argument that we are not capable of controlling our borders so we might as well let the EU do it several times.

I know I have said this before, but I don't think migration from within EU countries was as of a massive factor in the referendum vote as many think. Culturally they are much more similar to us than non-EU people and most people know that. Merkel's policies and the EU's reinforcement of it was what tipped that 2% in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I think that whipped up fear of immigration rather than immigration itself was a major factor.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2018
  • #11,886
Sick Boy said:
I think that whipped up fear of immigration rather than immigration itself was a major factor.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you used the word fear and not phobia. The latter would suggest that it was irrational, which it clearly is not.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2018
  • #11,887
Sick Boy said:
Not sure what that has to do with anything that I said? The narrative that people opposed to Brexit are anti-British is utter bollocks.
Click to expand...

It's not utter bollocks. It might get exaggerated at times as it isn't by any means everyone, but the stereotype does exist for a reason with some people.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2018
  • #11,888
Clearly we should have never built the tunnel.
Which idiot ever came up with that one! :$ B-)
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2018
  • #11,889
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
It's not utter bollocks. It might get exaggerated at times as it isn't by any means everyone, but the stereotype does exist for a reason with some people.
Click to expand...

Who would be anti British by attacking Brexit? Putin? I thought he was for it. The EU? The EU keeps doing a CCC „ The door is still open „ approach. Remainers? Why would they be anti British? Pointing out that Brexit is very likely not be to Britain‘s advantage is hardly anti British. Indeed some of the leaver rhetoric is against what Britain stands for or is harping back to a bygone age where Britain had an empire and was almost all „white“.

Who is anti British? And why? I don’t even see the Islamists as particularly bothered about criticising Brexit. I can’t think of why anti British people would attack Brexit.
 
Reactions: clint van damme and Sick Boy

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2018
  • #11,890
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
It's not utter bollocks. It might get exaggerated at times as it isn't by any means everyone, but the stereotype does exist for a reason with some people.
Click to expand...

If you want to talk about anti British I'll give you two sentences:
David Davis attempts to circumnavigate parliament over the Brexit withdrawal bill.
David Davis lying to Parliament and the British public over Brexit impact reports.
 
Reactions: martcov and Sick Boy
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2018
  • #11,891
wingy said:
Clearly we should have never built the tunnel.
Which idiot ever came up with that one! :$ B-)
Click to expand...
You Couldn't make it up.
Bonkers Boris wants to build a bridge over the Channel.
He must have been smoking some good stuff yesterday.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2018
  • #11,892
wingy said:
You Couldn't make it up.
Bonkers Boris wants to build a bridge over the Channel.
He must have been smoking some good stuff yesterday.
Click to expand...

I can't put into words just what a complete fucking idiot that man is.
In a week where Carillion collapsed and the full cost to the taxpayer of PFI/PPP deals has been in the news surely the last thing any politician should be doing is suggesting another white elephant project that's going to cost the country billions?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2018
  • #11,893
clint van damme said:
I can't put into words just what a complete fucking idiot that man is.
In a week where Carillion collapsed and the full cost to the taxpayer of PFI/PPP deals has been in the news surely the last thing any politician should be doing is suggesting another white elephant project that's going to cost the country billions?
Click to expand...
That's what he's all about. Look over there.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and martcov

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2018
  • #11,894
This made me chuckle

 
Reactions: Captain Dart, Sick Boy, martcov and 3 others

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2018
  • #11,895
clint van damme said:
This made me chuckle

Click to expand...

The guy needs to be sectioned for bringing up that idea.

What a tool.
 
Reactions: clint van damme

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2018
  • #11,896
martcov said:
Who would be anti British by attacking Brexit? Putin? I thought he was for it. The EU? The EU keeps doing a CCC „ The door is still open „ approach. Remainers? Why would they be anti British? Pointing out that Brexit is very likely not be to Britain‘s advantage is hardly anti British. Indeed some of the leaver rhetoric is against what Britain stands for or is harping back to a bygone age where Britain had an empire and was almost all „white“.

Who is anti British? And why? I don’t even see the Islamists as particularly bothered about criticising Brexit. I can’t think of why anti British people would attack Brexit.
Click to expand...

It's not really like you have a leg to stand on here. You were a Brit who has now moved to Germany and you want to be a German citizen. You prioritise Germany over Britain.

I'm not saying all remain voters hate Britain, what I am saying is there are many that do. When something comes out about Britain vs The EU, they side with The EU on almost everything. There are a few of those people on here, and there are many I have met in real life. What's sad is that they don't have the balls to admit it. They just argue and water down everything and then come back with the unbeatable line of 'I'm just worried about Brexit'. That might be fair in some cases, sure. In other cases however it is completely transparent.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2018
  • #11,897
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
It's not really like you have a leg to stand on here. You were a Brit who has now moved to Germany and you want to be a German citizen. You prioritise Germany over Britain.

I'm not saying all remain voters hate Britain, what I am saying is there are many that do. When something comes out about Britain vs The EU, they side with The EU on almost everything. There are a few of those people on here, and there are many I have met in real life. What's sad is that they don't have the balls to admit it. They just argue and water down everything and then come back with the unbeatable line of 'I'm just worried about Brexit'. That might be fair in some cases, sure. In other cases however it is completely transparent.
Click to expand...

We are members of the EU. Siding with „club“ that we have been with and agreed to the development of for 40 years is not against Britain. Applying for German citizenship whilst running a business in Germany and having a German common law wife and a half German kid, is common sense in the mad Brexit world which I didn’t vote for and don’t agree with. Who knows what comes next. I am not anti British, just covering my arse.

Being anti Brexit equates with being pro Britain for a small majority in Britain at the moment.

Wishing the chaos of Brexit on Britain can easily be construed as anti British, albeit not deliberately anti British.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2018
  • #11,898
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
The guy needs to be sectioned for bringing up that idea.

What a tool.
Click to expand...

Yes, on the one hand breaking from the EU, and the other suggesting more cooperation with the second most powerful EU country. Does he class as anti British in your world? Siding with an EU country?
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2018
  • #11,899
fernandopartridge said:
That's what he's all about. Look over there.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

And trying to show what a forward looking European country we are.... having backed backwards Brexit.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2018
  • #11,900
martcov said:
Yes, on the one hand breaking from the EU, and the other suggesting more cooperation with the second most powerful EU country. Does he class as anti British in your world? Siding with an EU country?
Click to expand...

Oh I've hit a nerve haven't I.

You're German now. I don't see what any of this has to do with you anymore.
 
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