skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
If you want to ask me out on a date you could be more direct. Mind you, you don’t need anymore rejection in your life.
If you want to ask me out on a date you could be more direct. Mind you, you don’t need anymore rejection in your life.Im showing this to please educate everyone on the forum to debate like a grown man. After all I’m sure Mr Almonds penis was well grown at this point - though he fired blanks according to The Tonester
Spoiler alert - you will not see grown men or women discussing this on Question Time anytime soon.
Of course you saw all this coming apparently......Its just a shame not all of us were blessed with the same crystal ball wikipedia page like Mullah Tony.
Didn't need a crystal ball.
Just had a quick think, as a working class man, am I going to benefit from a cause championed by Farage, Bank, Mogg etc?
Didn't take much working out.
Yeah that's the problem. I could actually get onboard with a left wing Brexit, but we were never going to get that.
or posting shit about being mugged off by lies on a bus...no doubt many were.....but clearly there were also many, like me, who were never taken in by any of the tory horseshit
They could print out this thread and use it as wallpaper in the museum.I think I might do a summer quiz with all proceeds going to this;
Brexiteers ask public for ‘treasures’ to put in Museum of Brexit
Organisers want placards, posters and personal correspondence from political battlewww.google.co.uk
Thoughts?
Even if not, they'd help the swing between a 52 and 48 the other way.And that's absolutely fair enough.
But sadly I think that you are in the minority of Leave voters, and that the majority of them were mugged off by a bus and other false promises.
You started the bloody thing, you only have yourself to blame!Well as I've stated before over the long dull years of this thread,
They could print out this thread and use it as wallpaper in the museum.
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Even if not, they'd help the swing between a 52 and 48 the other way.
Cameron's biggest crime really, offering a question with no hint as to the answer, so a leave was always likely to leave the majority of the country disappointed, whatever form it took.
You could have offered leave IF as options, though.But you could say that with the catastrophic predictions which swayed people to vote Remain. There was very little quality information/reasoning on either side.
I agree about the outcome part though.The ideal scenario would’ve been to put the final agreed position the government had got to in Dec to the vote (without having to piss about for four years to get there). We all know the EU wouldn’t have played the game fairly if there was going to be another vote on ‘the deal’ though. That’s not knocking them, why would you offer someone a good deal to leave if you want them to stay ?!
Ps my belief (for what is worth) is the reason why this wasn’t included, is the same reason we didn’t get a better deal from Cameron/the EU pre referendum...an arrogance from the political class at home and in the EU. A lack of listening, understanding and addressing people’s concerns
Edit - it’s like the previous Scottish referendum as well, why not say this is the only independence referendum for X years ?! Crazy
But you could say that with the catastrophic predictions which swayed people to vote Remain. There was very little quality information/reasoning on either side.
You could have offered leave IF as options, though.
Leave absolutely.
Leave IF Norway-style reached.
Leave IF...
And offered the opportunity for a return vote if, say, majority (you'd have had to do AV) had come up with leave IF Norway, where the next options were stay, or leave absolutely. Let's face it, surely Leave would have taken that as, if Leave IF Norway couldn't be agreed, it'd be more likely to swing to leave absolutely.
You could also have had stay IF in there too, with the same results if not agreed, where it's stay absolutely, or just sod off.
Would have focussed the minds...
If you're going to have a referendum, then you at least need the outcome in there rather than a woolly abstract thing, which is what we had. Now, should we have referenda, or should we trust our elected representatives as, after all, they (in theory!) will have access to more information than all of us really.I like it in theory....
However, many on here have suggested the UK public, leave voters in particular, are thick so I’m not convinced it’s the best idea.
Also, do you remember when they did something similar in Parliament and the MPs still fucked it up (as too many were still trying to overturn the vote)
I disagree here. There were numerous reports/forecasts/analyses on the various impacts of Brexit on whatever subject matter you like, all of which showed negative outcomes.
The arguments for the Leave side had no such reasoning or analysis, just slogans and catchphrases (ideally on a bus).
I do agree though about putting the deal to a vote.
If you're going to have a referendum, then you at least need the outcome in there rather than a woolly abstract thing, which is what we had. Now, should we have referenda, or should we trust our elected representatives as, after all, they (in theory!) will have access to more information than all of us really.
As for said elected representatives, they fucked it up because Lib Dems and Labour, for reasons best known to themselves (purity of political principle by Corbyn? Just plain disliking him from Lib Dems!) didn't unite and come to a focussed offer. Had they done so, they'd have been able to force *something* through... which may have been a compromise, may even have been a second referendum, but they'd have certainly been able to force something through.
For better or worse, Corbyn's as responsible for this shitshow as the current PM, in many ways!
Doesn’t the record stand that more leaver voted against the Brexit deals that were presented to Parliament than remainers?I like it in theory....
However, many on here have suggested the UK public, leave voters in particular, are thick so I’m not convinced it’s the best idea.
Also, do you remember when they did something similar in Parliament and the MPs still fucked it up (as too many were still trying to overturn the vote)
Doesn’t the record stand that more leaver voted against the Brexit deals that were presented to Parliament than remainers?
My memory is that there was always a consensus in Parliament for a Norway deal but May drew her red lines and killed it. Then the ERG voted against her deal having also rejected what essentially became the oven ready Boris deal that Boris said no British PM would or should ever sign, forcing May to resign, Boris purged his party of anyone with an ounce of common sense, forced an election, got a majority, the ERG then threatened to vote against Boris’ deal as its so bad, the Tories then wholesale rejected part of the deal before it limped across the line with both arms tied behind its back at which point everyone realised that Mays deal was actually infinitely better, wouldn’t be causing the issues in NI that are going to ultimately lead to project fear being project here and the Union splitting, the fishermen (the one industry that was absolutely no if no buts going to be a beneficiary of Brexit) being the first victim followed swiftly by the rest of the British food industry. Think that about covers it. Anyway, the point is that no one made Brexit more difficult than leavers, specifically the ERG. They’ll keep pointing the fingers at remainers though and leavers will keep buying it, as you’ve demonstrated perfectly.What I meant, and I might be wrong, if the Remainers had decided on their least worst option they could’ve pushed it through. It’s a while ago but recall these bizarre options votes being put forward
All can be true, though. The ERG could show themselves duplicitous nutcases, but the opposition could also fail to gather themselves as an opposition.My memory is that there was always a consensus in Parliament for a Norway deal but May drew her red lines and killed it. Then the ERG voted against her deal having also rejected what essentially became the oven ready Boris deal that Boris said no British PM would or should ever sign, forcing May to resign, Boris purged his party of anyone with an ounce of common sense, forced an election, got a majority, the ERG then threatened to vote against Boris’ deal as its so bad, the Tories then wholesale rejected part of the deal before it limped across the line with both arms tied behind its back at which point everyone realised that Mays deal was actually infinitely better, wouldn’t be causing the issues in NI that are going to ultimately lead to project fear being project here and the Union splitting, the fishermen (the one industry that was absolutely no if no buts going to be a beneficiary of Brexit) being the first victim followed swiftly by the rest of the British food industry. Think that about covers it. Anyway, the point is that no one made Brexit more difficult than leavers, specifically the ERG. They’ll keep pointing the fingers at remainers though and leavers will keep buying it, as you’ve demonstrated perfectly.
Yeah that’s fair enough. I do remember May saying (especially after the ill fated GE) that parliament needs to come together and then cross party talks never happened. IIRC Corbyn said that May meant everyone agrees with her and her red lines not talk to meet a general consensus so as far as I remember it never got any legs to accomplish anything.All can be true, though. The ERG could show themselves duplicitous nutcases, but the opposition could also fail to gather themselves as an opposition.
There were enough Tories who would have come onside with them, if they'd got their act together. That could even have been for a second referendum! The problem was, they ended up so muddled, it was pick a straw and see how long it was.
| Motion | Proposer | Ayes | Noes | Abs. | Majority |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| No Deal | John Baron | 160 | 400 | 74 | 240 |
| "Common Market 2.0" | Nick Boles | 189 | 283 | 162 | 94 |
| EFTA membership | George Eustice | 64 | 377 | 193 | 313 |
| Customs union | Kenneth Clarke | 265 | 271 | 98 | 6 |
| Labour alternative | Jeremy Corbyn | 237 | 307 | 90 | 70 |
| Revocation to avoid No Deal | Joanna Cherry | 184 | 293 | 157 | 109 |
| Referendum on the Withdrawal Agreement | Margaret Beckett | 268 | 295 | 71 | 27 |
| "Managed No Deal" | Marcus Fysh | 139 | 422 | 73 | 283 |
| Motion | Proposer | Ayes | Noes | Abs. | Majority |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| with a "Customs Union" | Kenneth Clarke | 273 | 276 | 85 | 3 |
| with "Common Market 2.0" | Nick Boles | 261 | 282 | 91 | 21 |
| hold a "Confirmatory Public Vote" | Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson | 280 | 292 | 62 | 12 |
| "Revocation of Article 50 to avoid No Deal" | Joanna Cherry | 191 | 292 | 151 | 101 |
WPC grendull will be after you for using Wikipedia.I thought I was going mad for a minute (possible after a year of Covid/lockdowns) but it was the indicative votes I was talking about. This is from wiki (first and second rounds). That’s what I meant NW, I agree, to vote on options would’ve been sensible, however, if that’s the shitshow from the MPs (when most want to remain), what on earth would’ve happened happened if those options were put to public ?!!! Still trying to work out how a predominantly Remain parliament didn’t manage to force through a softer Brexit.
I personally don’t know if it would’ve been possible/a good thing anyway even though I wanted a close trading relationship ie unlikely to have CU without EU wanting to retain FOM, cash and controlling certain rules and regs. In which case you might as well have canned the whole thing anyway, which would’ve damaged public faith in democracy
First Round of Indicative Votes (27 March 2019)Edit
As a result of the first Letwin amendment's success, indicative votes on Parliament's preferred Brexit options were held on 27 March. Eight propositions were voted upon, of which all eight failed.
In a departure from Westminster parliamentary convention, all eight votes took place simultaneously, using ballot papers, rather than having MPs walk through lobbies to signify their vote.
Motion Proposer Ayes Noes Abs. Majority No Deal John Baron 160 400 74 240 "Common Market 2.0" Nick Boles 189 283 162 94 EFTA membership George Eustice 64 377 193 313 Customs union Kenneth Clarke 265 271 98 6 Labour alternative Jeremy Corbyn 237 307 90 70 Revocation to avoid No Deal Joanna Cherry 184 293 157 109 Referendum on the Withdrawal Agreement Margaret Beckett 268 295 71 27 "Managed No Deal" Marcus Fysh 139 422 73 283
Second Round of Indicative Votes (1 April 2019)Edit
Further indicative votes were held on 1 April on propositions chosen by the Speaker.[107][108]
Once again, in a departure from parliamentary convention, rather than having MPs walk through lobbies to indicate their vote choice, all four votes took place simultaneously using ballot papers.[109]
Motion Proposer Ayes Noes Abs. Majority with a "Customs Union" Kenneth Clarke 273 276 85 3 with "Common Market 2.0" Nick Boles 261 282 91 21 hold a "Confirmatory Public Vote" Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson 280 292 62 12 "Revocation of Article 50 to avoid No Deal" Joanna Cherry 191 292 151 101
You won Joe, get over it.
'Harming me and my future': How Brexit is crushing UK pensioners' dreams of retiring abroad
In 2016, Joe thought Brexit was a great idea. But he soon realized his dream of retiring in Spain was going be limited by his new status as a non-EU citizen.newseu.cgtn.com
Why do people like this say no one old us?
They did, and people like you dismissed them.
It’s like being back in the 70’s. Checkpoints and army patrols will be returning next. Got family members in the PSNI, 1 cousin stationed in Belfast. Thankfully he’s been okay so far although he’s back to checking under his car like his mum and dad (both retired RUC, then PSNI officers) had to in the troubles. Going to be a long summer in Northern Ireland, maybe Covid will stop the 12th happening so at least one flashpoint will be missing.Brexit still going well
Of course this is barely being reported on, like the rest of the Brexit shit show.
It’s like being back in the 70’s. Checkpoints and army patrols will be returning next. Got family members in the PSNI, 1 cousin stationed in Belfast. Thankfully he’s been okay so far although he’s back to checking under his car like his mum and dad (both retired RUC, then PSNI officers) had to in the troubles. Going to be a long summer in Northern Ireland, maybe Covid will stop the 12th happening so at least one flashpoint will be missing.
Basically Brexit has masterminded the exact environment required to trigger a border poll and break the Union up. The more chaotic Brexit is on Northern Ireland the more likely unification of Ireland is. A return to the troubles adds to that chaos.I’m sure the answer will be far too long and arduous for you to cover off fully, but what exactly do the troubles centre around and why has Brexit accentuated the return of them? Genuine question as I basically know nothing of the NI situation.
Basically Brexit has masterminded the exact environment required to trigger a border poll and break the Union up. The more chaotic Brexit is on Northern Ireland the more likely unification of Ireland is. A return to the troubles adds to that chaos.
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