The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (7 Viewers)

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jan 27, 2021

Alright, alright. I just went to make breakfast and came back to about twenty notifications.

Let's put the swords away for a bit.

I can see the point that people are making, and I have seen nothing to disagree with most of the statements. However, no one has yet posted anything against my main point above. Ironically, considering he was asking for insight last night, @shmmeee seems to be the one who gets it for the most part.

I know you all hate brexit, and I understand. I have never said we would be better out of the EU either and I am very sceptical of this government. That doesn't mean we cannot be happy that we are doing a really good job of the vaccine roll out so far, and we should be proud of that. There is an undercurrent of grumpiness towards it and that is cut from the same cloth that the EU have with their vindictive behaviour because we aren't in their club anymore. Whether it is me, or anyone else. I think people would give a lot more respect to others if there wasn't just a plain denial that the EU have done anything that isn't better than what we have on every occasion.

You just know the match thread is going to be a corker tonight!

CCFCSteve · Jan 27, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
I wouldn't be crowing until we find out for sure that our live trials on vaccines are successful...

Being first to start the race isn't always a good thing

Agree with this 100%. I would also suggest the same is done with per capita deaths etc. I’ve said all along that the only way to properly review/judge this is once it’s over (hopefully it will be soon !) yet people want to pick apart every action and decision ‘live’ etc when we know this fucking virus is still out there, comes in waves and is mutating. bizarre !

Let’s be honest though, what we do know is if the EU vaccine procurement and roll out was going better than the Uks (even at this early stage), Johnson would’ve been slaughtered by many (how our nationalist government had taken a ideological rather than collaborative approach that’s costs us lives).

As you say though NW, it’s aint over til it’s over and there’s a long way to go for us and the rest of the world yet. Hopefully there’s some light at the end of the tunnel and let’s just pray the roll out/vaccine effectiveness (especially the AZ vaccine) continues to go as well as possible for everyone’s sake

edit - unintentional Lenny kravitz quote before hill or someone else flags it !!

clint van damme · Jan 27, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
Agree with this 100%. I would also suggest the same is done with per capita deaths etc. I’ve said all along that the only way to properly review/judge this is once it’s over (hopefully it will be soon !) yet people want to pick apart every action and decision ‘live’ etc when we know this fucking virus is still out there, comes in waves and is mutating. bizarre !

Let’s be honest though, what we do know is if the EU vaccine procurement and roll out was going better than the Uks (even at this early stage), Johnson would’ve been slaughtered by many (how our nationalist government had taken a ideological rather than collaborative approach that’s costs us lives).

As you say though NW, it’s not over til it’s over and there’s a long way to go for us and the rest of the world yet. Hopefully there’s some light at the end of the tunnel and let’s just pray the roll out/vaccine effectiveness (especially the AZ vaccine) continues to go as well as possible for everyone’s sake

of course people want to pick apart every action and decision as they happen, over 1600 people a day are dying ffs!

And of course Johnson would be getting slaughtered if our vaccine procurement was going worse than the EUs, and rightly so.
As it is it's the one thing we appear to have got right thankfully but lets not let that distract from the litany of disaster that's he's caused since last March in the way he's handled it.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 27, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
Agree with this 100%. I would also suggest the same is done with per capita deaths etc. I’ve said all along that the only way to properly review/judge this is once it’s over (hopefully it will be soon !) yet people want to pick apart every action and decision ‘live’ etc when we know this fucking virus is still out there, comes in waves and is mutating. bizarre !

Let’s be honest though, what we do know is if the EU vaccine procurement and roll out was going better than the Uks (even at this early stage), Johnson would’ve been slaughtered by many (how our nationalist government had taken a ideological rather than collaborative approach that’s costs us lives).

As you say though NW, it’s aint over til it’s over and there’s a long way to go for us and the rest of the world yet. Hopefully there’s some light at the end of the tunnel and let’s just pray the roll out/vaccine effectiveness (especially the AZ vaccine) continues to go as well as possible for everyone’s sake

edit - unintentional Lenny kravitz quote before hill or someone else flags it !!

I agree now isn’t the time for an inquiry, the guilty parties are busy stacking up more evidence against themselves!

CCFCSteve · Jan 27, 2021

clint van damme said:
of course people want to pick apart every action and decision as they happen, over 1600 people a day are dying ffs!

And of course Johnson would be getting slaughtered if our vaccine procurement was going worse than the EUs, and rightly so.
As it is it's the one thing we appear to have got right thankfully but lets not let that distract from the litany of disaster that's he's caused since last March in the way he's handled it.

The point is people can’t have it both ways Clint. Like I mentioned the other day you had James O’Brien comparing us to the world on various data in one breath and then refusing to compare our vaccination roll out on ‘companionate’ reasons in another (wrong to compare as we should want the world vaccinated - ‘yes, James and we funded the development of the cheapest, easy to transport/store not for profit vaccine which if it remains effective will save hundreds of thousands of lives)

Many of the decisions and their outcomes can change over time. Sweden for example may have chosen a great path (based on their age, single household numbers etc) if immunity was gained and retained. As it was the plan didn’t go quite so well. NZ strategy of closing the borders has been amazing...but if a vaccine hadn’t been discovered, then it doesn’t solve the problem.

There are certainly stand out issues and decisions that should be highlighted and investigated ie lack of PPE/PPE supply chain planning, release of elderly back into care homes in first wave and some questionable contracts handed out. A lot of the other stuff were borderline decisions (I’ve said numerous times before for people to watch the Lockdown doc inc members of SAGE/nervtag on bbc around timings and decisions). Whitty again highlighted last night, some of the issues faced (new variant) and scientific views that have altered during the course of the pandemic, to pretend otherwise (not aimed at you) is just blinkered

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 27, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
Agree with this 100%. I would also suggest the same is done with per capita deaths etc. I’ve said all along that the only way to properly review/judge this is once it’s over (hopefully it will be soon !) yet people want to pick apart every action and decision ‘live’ etc when we know this fucking virus is still out there, comes in waves and is mutating. bizarre !

Let’s be honest though, what we do know is if the EU vaccine procurement and roll out was going better than the Uks (even at this early stage), Johnson would’ve been slaughtered by many (how our nationalist government had taken a ideological rather than collaborative approach that’s costs us lives).

As you say though NW, it’s aint over til it’s over and there’s a long way to go for us and the rest of the world yet. Hopefully there’s some light at the end of the tunnel and let’s just pray the roll out/vaccine effectiveness (especially the AZ vaccine) continues to go as well as possible for everyone’s sake

edit - unintentional Lenny kravitz quote before hill or someone else flags it !!

I'm not really looking at absolute death figures tbh, more actions. To my mind, what I want in this is collaborative, clear, and decisive. Think it's clear the latter two have not been there and as for the first, nobody has done that really. Can't help but feel Trump has led that somewhat, so hoping we see a bit more going forward.

Being the live trial is nervy. We won't know if that's 'right' until after the event and even then, if it is, it's... risky, if decisive!

Sky Blue Pete · Jan 27, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Alright, alright. I just went to make breakfast and came back to about twenty notifications.

Let's put the swords away for a bit.

I can see the point that people are making, and I have seen nothing to disagree with most of the statements. However, no one has yet posted anything against my main point above. Ironically, considering he was asking for insight last night, @shmmeee seems to be the one who gets it for the most part.

I know you all hate brexit, and I understand. I have never said we would be better out of the EU either and I am very sceptical of this government. That doesn't mean we cannot be happy that we are doing a really good job of the vaccine roll out so far, and we should be proud of that. There is an undercurrent of grumpiness towards it and that is cut from the same cloth that the EU have with their vindictive behaviour because we aren't in their club anymore. Whether it is me, or anyone else. I think people would give a lot more respect to others if there wasn't just a plain denial that the EU have done anything that isn't better than what we have on every occasion.

You just know the match thread is going to be a corker tonight!

Especially at 0-1

CCFCSteve · Jan 27, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
I'm not really looking at absolute death figures tbh, more actions. To my mind, what I want in this is collaborative, clear, and decisive. Think it's clear the latter two have not been there and as for the first, nobody has done that really. Can't help but feel Trump has led that somewhat, so hoping we see a bit more going forward.

Being the live trial is nervy. We won't know if that's 'right' until after the event and even then, if it is, it's... risky, if decisive!

Agreed. But you can be clear decisive and wrong. The whole thing (certainly in the western world) is a massive balancing act

ps the communication in terms of info/data made available is pretty impressive. The clarity of messaging of that information and strategy has been very poor ! Anway - wrong thread, apologies

Sky Blue Pete · Jan 27, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
The point is people can’t have it both ways Clint. Like I mentioned the other day you had James O’Brien comparing us to the world on various data in one breath and then refusing to compare our vaccination roll out on ‘companionate’ reasons in another (wrong to compare as we should want the world vaccinated - ‘yes, James and we funded the development of the cheapest, easy to transport/store not for profit vaccine which if it remains effective will save hundreds of thousands of lives)

Many of the decisions and their outcomes can change over time. Sweden for example may have chosen a great path (based on their age, single household numbers etc) if immunity was gained and retained. As it was the plan didn’t go quite so well. NZ strategy of closing the borders has been amazing...but if a vaccine hadn’t been discovered, then it doesn’t solve the problem.

There are certainly stand out issues and decisions that should be highlighted and investigated ie lack of PPE/PPE supply chain planning, release of elderly back into care homes in first wave and some questionable contracts handed out. A lot of the other stuff were borderline decisions (I’ve said numerous times before for people to watch the Lockdown doc inc members of SAGE/nervtag on bbc around timings and decisions). Whitty again highlighted last night, some of the issues faced (new variant) and scientific views that have altered during the course of the pandemic, to pretend otherwise (not aimed at you) is just blinkered

Tier 2 in London
September circuit break and
Christmas not border line for me and the underlying cause of many thousands of unnecessary deaths

clint van damme · Jan 27, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
The point is people can’t have it both ways Clint. Like I mentioned the other day you had James O’Brien comparing us to the world on various data in one breath and then refusing to compare our vaccination roll out on ‘companionate’ reasons in another (wrong to compare as we should want the world vaccinated - ‘yes, James and we funded the development of the cheapest, easy to transport/store not for profit vaccine which if it remains effective will save hundreds of thousands of lives)

Many of the decisions and their outcomes can change over time. Sweden for example may have chosen a great path (based on their age, single household numbers etc) if immunity was gained and retained. As it was the plan didn’t go quite so well. NZ strategy of closing the borders has been amazing...but if a vaccine hadn’t been discovered, then it doesn’t solve the problem.

There are certainly stand out issues and decisions that should be highlighted and investigated ie lack of PPE/PPE supply chain planning, release of elderly back into care homes in first wave and some questionable contracts handed out. A lot of the other stuff were borderline decisions (I’ve said numerous times before for people to watch the Lockdown doc inc members of SAGE/nervtag on bbc around timings and decisions). Whitty again highlighted last night, some of the issues faced (new variant) and scientific views that have altered during the course of the pandemic, to pretend otherwise (not aimed at you) is just blinkered

James O'Briens whole remit is to spout shit that gets a reaction.

As for Sweden, they fucked up and high profile figures resigned as a result.

Here, worse deaths per capita, cronyism, late closing borders etc etc - resignations 0.

That's nothing to do with people being blinkered, that's to do with a total breakdown of accountability in this country.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 27, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
Agreed. But you can be clear decisive and wrong. The whole thing (certainly in the western world) is a massive balancing act

ps the communication in terms of info/data made available is pretty impressive. The clarity of messaging of that information and strategy has been very poor ! Anway - wrong thread, apologies

Yeah, wrong thread. I do kind of agree, though.

CCFCSteve · Jan 27, 2021

clint van damme said:
James O'Briens whole remit is to spout shit that gets a reaction.

As for Sweden, they fucked up and high profile figures resigned as a result.

Here, worse deaths per capita, cronyism, late closing borders etc etc - resignations 0.

That's nothing to do with people being blinkered, that's to do with a total breakdown of accountability in this country.

Read what I’ve said, I’m with you on some of those things being investigated. Things change though. Regarding closing borders do watch the documentary and read the SAGE minutes. It was advised against (as was stopping large outdoor gatherings)...they felt it was basically too late. The decision, especially out of context, is obviously horrifically wrong as whilst it wouldn’t have stopped the virus, it would have given us/NHS more time to prepare by slowing spread. However, this was also when Vallance and others felt herd immunity (gradual, not let it rip) might be best solution/course of action - Again if people retained immunity after catching it, it may well have been a viable option (alongside other strands such as protect/shield elderly/higher risk etc). Unfortunately time and science has proved otherwise

Sick Boy · Jan 27, 2021

Sky Blue Pete said:
Especially at 0-1

I think despite being 1-0 down so far today @Earlsdon_Skyblue1 is handling it quite well.

CCFCSteve · Jan 27, 2021

Sky Blue Pete said:
Tier 2 in London
September circuit break and
Christmas not border line for me and the underlying cause of many thousands of unnecessary deaths

September circuit break - see welsh circuit break. Totally ineffective.
London tier 2 - see previous article I attached on other thread (rates falling and below average). From memory it spread from Kent into London very quickly. Burnham wanted Manc in T2 even though same numbers as London. Sadiq Khan lobbied government for London to go into T2. That’s what I mean by borderline - others were pushing for similar decision. Also new variant changed things at very short notice
Christmas - new variant and many people were going to celebrate with family either way (they were advised against and it couldn’t be policed) Everyone saw the ignoring of rules/advice when london piled out of the capital after Witty advIsed against leaving. As mentioned above though far clearer messaging should been delivered and expectations better managed way in advance of Xmas ie ‘plans and restrictions could/likely to change so don’t book anything’. Also with hindsight maybe they should turned the country into a police state over Xmas, was never going to happen though

Ps wrong thread but just responding again

clint van damme · Jan 27, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
Read what I’ve said, I’m with you on some of those things being investigated. Things change though. Regarding closing borders do watch the documentary and read the SAGE minutes. It was advised against (as was stopping large outdoor gatherings)...they felt it was basically too late. The decision, especially out of context, is obviously horrifically wrong as whilst it wouldn’t have stopped the virus, it would have given us/NHS more time to prepare by slowing spread. However, this was also when Vallance and others felt herd immunity (gradual, not let it rip) might be best solution/course of action - Again if people retained immunity after catching it, it may well have been a viable option (alongside other strands such as protect/shield elderly/higher risk etc). Unfortunately time and science has proved otherwise

They ignored the science on outdoor events to allow Cheltenham to go ahead, nothing to do with science, all to do with their mates in the horse racing industry.

I'm sure the science didn't say return people with covid to care homes, or lockdown to reduce infections and deaths then offer everyone half price dining out 3 nights a week.
There's no excusing them and it's an insult to those who have died to try and do so.
If they'd been as decisive in dealing with the virus as they have been with handing out contracts to their mates we'd wouldn't have lost so many people.

shmmeee · Jan 27, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
September circuit break - see welsh circuit break. Totally ineffective.
London tier 2 - see previous article I attached on other thread (rates falling and below average). From memory it spread from Kent into London very quickly. Burnham wanted Manc in T2 even though same numbers as London. Sadiq Khan lobbied government for London to go into T2. That’s what I mean by borderline - others were pushing for similar decision. Also new variant changed things at very short notice
Christmas - new variant and many people were going to celebrate with family either way (they were advised against and it couldn’t be policed) Everyone saw the ignoring of rules/advice when london piled out of the capital after Witty advIsed against leaving. As mentioned above though far clearer messaging should been delivered and expectations better managed way in advance of Xmas ie ‘plans and restrictions could/likely to change so don’t book anything’. Also with hindsight maybe they should turned the country into a police state over Xmas, was never going to happen though

Ps wrong thread but just responding again

Why do you say the Welsh circuit breaker was totally ineffective? Everything I’ve seen says it reduced the R rate as intended.

clint van damme · Jan 27, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
September circuit break - see welsh circuit break. Totally ineffective.
London tier 2 - see previous article I attached on other thread (rates falling and below average). From memory it spread from Kent into London very quickly. Burnham wanted Manc in T2 even though same numbers as London. Sadiq Khan lobbied government for London to go into T2. That’s what I mean by borderline - others were pushing for similar decision. Also new variant changed things at very short notice
Christmas - new variant and many people were going to celebrate with family either way (they were advised against and it couldn’t be policed) Everyone saw the ignoring of rules/advice when london piled out of the capital after Witty advIsed against leaving. As mentioned above though far clearer messaging should been delivered and expectations better managed way in advance of Xmas ie ‘plans and restrictions could/likely to change so don’t book anything’. Also with hindsight maybe they should turned the country into a police state over Xmas, was never going to happen though

Ps wrong thread but just responding again

Then Khan is as guilty as them.

Sky Blue Pete · Jan 27, 2021

shmmeee said:
Why do you say the Welsh circuit breaker was totally ineffective? Everything I’ve seen says it reduced the R rate as intended.

Defend narrative

CCFCSteve · Jan 27, 2021

shmmeee said:
Why do you say the Welsh circuit breaker was totally ineffective? Everything I’ve seen says it reduced the R rate as intended.

look what happened after it was released

CCFCSteve · Jan 27, 2021

clint van damme said:
Then Khan is as guilty as them.

Im not saying anyones guilty, just it wasn’t a clear cut decision at the time

CCFCSteve · Jan 27, 2021

clint van damme said:
They ignored the science on outdoor events to allow Cheltenham to go ahead, nothing to do with science, all to do with their mates in the horse racing industry.

I'm sure the science didn't say return people with covid to care homes, or lockdown to reduce infections and deaths then offer everyone half price dining out 3 nights a week.
There's no excusing them and it's an insult to those who have died to try and do so.
If they'd been as decisive in dealing with the virus as they have been with handing out contracts to their mates we'd wouldn't have lost so many people.

No point debating if you’re ignoring half the stuff I write Clint (I even said returning people to care homes was one of the three biggest errors/issues of the pandemic and should be investigated, as should the contracts/cronyism)

I’ll also dig out Sage minutes (again)

clint van damme · Jan 27, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
No point debating if you’re ignoring half the stuff I write Clint (I even said returning people to care homes was one of the three biggest errors/issues of the pandemic and should be investigated, as should the contracts/cronyism)

I’ll also dig out Sage minutes (again)

I'm reading what you're saying but there were clearly major decisions made where the science was totally ignored. You're picking up on a couple where the scientific advice was ambiguous but in general that's not what was happening.

As for an investigation, I'm sure Rees Mogg will make sure that goes the same way as the enquiry into why parliament only had a day to study the Brexit bill.

Sky Blue Pete · Jan 27, 2021

clint van damme said:
I'm reading what you're saying but there were clearly major decisions made where the science was totally ignored. You're picking up on a couple where the scientific advice was ambiguous but in general that's not what was happening.

As for an investigation, I'm sure Rees Mogg will make sure that goes the same way as the enquiry into why parliament only had a day to study the Brexit bill.

And the grenfell hearings

CCFCSteve · Jan 27, 2021

clint van damme said:
I'm reading what you're saying but there were clearly major decisions made where the science was totally ignored. You're picking up on a couple where the scientific advice was ambiguous but in general that's not what was happening.

As for an investigation, I'm sure Rees Mogg will make sure that goes the same way as the enquiry into why parliament only had a day to study the Brexit bill.

Im saying youre ignoring the comments I’m making regarding the major areas that should be investigated (carehomes and contracts/cronyism) and then repeating those points like I’m arguing against it

ps this highlights the timeline of the decision making and some of the errors made

Home Office preparedness for COVID-19 (coronavirus): management of the borders - Home Affairs Committee - House of Commons

publications.parliament.uk

People mistake me as suggesting that the government have done a wonderful job, they haven’t, there have been fuck ups. However, there are a lot of hindsight related issues and lack of context in relation to some of the arguments against some decisions though

wingy · Jan 27, 2021

AstraZeneca vaccine may not go to older people, EU medicines chief suggests

European Medicines Agency approval could stipulate age range, says Emer Cooke

www.theguardian.com

I guess this article and the suggestion of lower efficacy would give them cover regards the later roll out etc ,if their intention was to vaccinate the elderly first.

chiefdave · Jan 27, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I know you all hate brexit, and I understand. I have never said we would be better out of the EU either and I am very sceptical of this government. That doesn't mean we cannot be happy that we are doing a really good job of the vaccine roll out so far, and we should be proud of that. There is an undercurrent of grumpiness towards it and that is cut from the same cloth that the EU have with their vindictive behaviour because we aren't in their club anymore. Whether it is me, or anyone else. I think people would give a lot more respect to others if there wasn't just a plain denial that the EU have done anything that isn't better than what we have on every occasion.

Not sure that's really what people have been doing. If you look on the covid thread its full of praise for how well our vaccination program has been going.

You can be happy that we're getting it done but also concerned that the EU are struggling. It doesn't have to be one or the other. We need other countries to be sorted or travel will continue to be an issue.

fernandopartridge · Jan 27, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
If everyone was delighted about the vaccine roll out they wouldn't be getting triggered when it gets compared specifically to European countries, and they wouldn't try and make it look like the faster roll out has nothing to do with being out of the EU. I guess it is just a giant coincidence that the country just leaving the European Union should be on an entirely different path to every single country in it.

It is a coincidence, the UK was under the jurisdiction of the European Medicines Agency when it approved the vaccine.

chiefdave · Jan 27, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
The point is people can’t have it both ways Clint. Like I mentioned the other day you had James O’Brien comparing us to the world on various data in one breath and then refusing to compare our vaccination roll out on ‘companionate’ reasons in another (wrong to compare as we should want the world vaccinated - ‘yes, James and we funded the development of the cheapest, easy to transport/store not for profit vaccine which if it remains effective will save hundreds of thousands of lives)

Agreed, but you also can't do the reverse and shout about how much better we are doing at vaccinations while saying you can't compare cases, deaths etc.

skybluetony176 · Jan 27, 2021

clint van damme said:
James O'Briens whole remit is to spout shit that gets a reaction.

As for Sweden, they fucked up and high profile figures resigned as a result.

Here, worse deaths per capita, cronyism, late closing borders etc etc - resignations 0.

That's nothing to do with people being blinkered, that's to do with a total breakdown of accountability in this country.

The most unforgivable things are the complete lack of joined up thinking and delaying decision making until there is no decision to make. Both connected.

For example, delaying closing schools. Both times they closed schools they let kids go in on the Monday before closing schools on the Tuesday. Both decisions needed making at the weekend. How many people caught the virus because they made the kids go on for one day? The first time you could argue that they didn’t have the benefit of hindsight, the second though...

The ignoring of the science while claiming you were following the science and failing to extend the autumn half term as a circuit breaker.

Xmas. If you’re going to let families mix at Xmas why didn’t they close schools a week early to give children and families who may have caught the virus but not showing symptoms to have the time to present symptoms before mixing with other people or if they remain asymptotic they pass the point of being able to transmit the virus before mixing.

Just the lack of common sense is scary.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 27, 2021

chiefdave said:
Agreed, but you also can't do the reverse and shout about how much better we are doing at vaccinations while saying you can't compare cases, deaths etc.

We lead the world in per capita deaths, Israel leads it in vaccinations by a long way.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Jan 27, 2021

wingy said:
AstraZeneca vaccine may not go to older people, EU medicines chief suggests

European Medicines Agency approval could stipulate age range, says Emer Cooke

www.theguardian.com

I guess this article and the suggestion of lower efficacy would give them cover regards the later roll out etc ,if their intention was to vaccinate the elderly first.

Yep.....very convenient.....a cunning plan.

PVA · Jan 27, 2021

skybluetony176 said:
The most unforgivable things are the complete lack of joined up thinking and delaying decision making until there is no decision to make. Both connected.

For example, delaying closing schools. Both times they closed schools they let kids go in on the Monday before closing schools on the Tuesday. Both decisions needed making at the weekend. How many people caught the virus because they made the kids go on for one day? The first time you could argue that they didn’t have the benefit of hindsight, the second though...

The ignoring of the science while claiming you were following the science and failing to extend the autumn half term as a circuit breaker.

Xmas. If you’re going to let families mix at Xmas why didn’t they close schools a week early to give children and families who may have caught the virus but not showing symptoms to have the time to present symptoms before mixing with other people or if they remain asymptotic they pass the point of being able to transmit the virus before mixing.

Just the lack of common sense is scary.

The problem is that Johnson's decision making process is to wait till the last minute so there is only one option.

He can't, or isn't willing, to make the big calls. So he just waits and waits until it gets to the stage where there is only one thing that can be done (whether it's to lock down, close the schools etc). Then he doesn't have a choice to make. He just does the only option left.

But then it's too late and thousands more are dead because of his delays and incompetence.

But hey, at least we got blue (black?) passports.

shmmeee · Jan 27, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
We lead the world in per capita deaths, Israel leads it in vaccinations by a long way.

This made me curious, so just downloaded the vaccination data for all the countries and looked at average daily doses per million:

country	vacc
Gibraltar	22490.8
Seychelles	11284.81
Israel	11137.37
United Arab Emirates	8200.905
Bermuda	4464
Northern Cyprus	2893.25
England	2477.667
Bahrain	2403.357
United Kingdom	2348.917
Northern Ireland	2169
Turkey	1785.385
Wales	1724.14
United States	1641.973
Scotland	1621.721
Isle of Man	1605.25
Malta	1485.071
Serbia	1373.056
Denmark	1233.172
Spain	1203.773

We come off very very well. (I know you know this, just thought the data was interesting to see who else is at our level)

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 27, 2021

shmmeee said:
This made me curious, so just downloaded the vaccination data for all the countries and looked at average daily doses per million:

country vacc
Gibraltar
22490.8
Seychelles
11284.81
Israel
11137.37
United Arab Emirates
8200.905
Bermuda
4464
Northern Cyprus
2893.25
England
2477.667
Bahrain
2403.357
United Kingdom
2348.917
Northern Ireland
2169
Turkey
1785.385
Wales
1724.14
United States
1641.973
Scotland
1621.721
Isle of Man
1605.25
Malta
1485.071
Serbia
1373.056
Denmark
1233.172
Spain
1203.773

We come off very very well. (I know you know this, just thought the data was interesting to see who else is at our level)

We are among the best in the world for it, which is still excellent news. But Israel is smashing it out the park by some distance.

Don’t really count the Seychelles!

shmmeee · Jan 27, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
We are second in the world, which is still excellent news. But Israel is smashing it out the park by some distance.

Hardly surprising. Small tightly managed country with large military for logistics and huge amounts of cash and tech. They're basically Jewish Wakanda.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (7 Viewers)

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