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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (7 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2020
  • #48,476
Brighton Sky Blue said:
By doing a really shit job on Brexit and Covid he has sent support for independence through the roof
Click to expand...

Which maybe the case, but with the new brexit bill, it effectively takes away much of the SNPs powers and strengthens Westminsters grip on Scotland,As I said, Rightly or wrongly.
Besides brexit and our opinions of shit head Johnson... Sturgeon is a one trick pony that Scotland shouldn't blindly follow.
Internal market bill that's it

Either way, it's about time somebody put sturgeon back in her box... She's a clown
 
Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2020
  • #48,477
Evo1883 said:
Which maybe the case, but with the new brexit bill, it effectively takes away much of the SNPs powers and strengthens Westminsters grip on Scotland,As I said, Rightly or wrongly.
Besides brexit and our opinions of shit head Johnson... Sturgeon is a one trick pony that Scotland shouldn't blindly follow.
Internal market bill that's it

Either way, it's about time somebody put sturgeon back in her box... She's a clown
Click to expand...

If public opinion up there goes overwhelmingly in favour of it then Johnson would have to act like a dictator to deny them
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2020
  • #48,478
Brighton Sky Blue said:
If public opinion up there goes overwhelmingly in favour of it then Johnson would have to act like a dictator to deny them
Click to expand...
The reality is, Scotland can't play up every 5 or 6 years and westminster bows to them...it's not going to happen.
Maybe sturgeon has done more damage than some want to admit, Westminster will make sure she doesn't get her vote for Many years yet.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2020
  • #48,479
Evo1883 said:
The reality is, Scotland can't play up every 5 or 6 years and westminster bows to them...it's not going to happen.
Maybe sturgeon has done more damage than some want to admit, Westminster will make sure she doesn't get her vote for Many years yet.
Click to expand...

Difference is they can't block an NI referendum unless they want to break the GFA, which admittedly isn't beyond them
 
Reactions: Evo1883
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2020
  • #48,480
I can't wait for the Nation's cup to start again,or friendlies at Wembley,Hampden park and Windsor park.
Six Nations gets spicier too .
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2020
  • #48,481
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Difference is they can't block an NI referendum unless they want to break the GFA, which admittedly isn't beyond them
Click to expand...
In a sense that’s exactly what they’re proposing to do.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2020
  • #48,482
Peston has been tipped off from a senior Tory that the Lords are going to kill this bill. The Salisbury-Addison Convention apparently means that they have to hold the Government to account on their election manifesto and the bill contradicts their not even a year old election manifesto.
#easiestdealever
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2020
  • #48,483
skybluetony176 said:
Peston has been tipped off from a senior Tory that the Lords are going to kill this bill. The Salisbury-Addison Convention apparently means that they have to hold the Government to account on their election manifesto and the bill contradicts their not even a year old election manifesto.
#easiestdealever
Click to expand...
I read, although could be wrong that the Lords can only delay it for 1 year.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2020
  • #48,484
Evo1883 said:
I read, although could be wrong that the Lords can only delay it for 1 year.
Click to expand...
Could be right . Extension anyone?
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2020
  • #48,485
skybluetony176 said:
Peston has been tipped off from a senior Tory that the Lords are going to kill this bill. The Salisbury-Addison Convention apparently means that they have to hold the Government to account on their election manifesto and the bill contradicts their not even a year old election manifesto.
#easiestdealever
Click to expand...

Not sure about that Salisbury-Addison is the convention that the Lords don't pass wrecking bills against government bills that are expressly indicated in the governments manifesto. It hasn't ever been used to make a government stick to their manifesto pledges.
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2020
  • #48,486
skybluetony176 said:
Could be right . Extension anyone?
Click to expand...
It could all well be a ploy to get a further year without upsetting his supporters
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2020
  • #48,487
Evo1883 said:
It could all well be a ploy to get a further year without upsetting his supporters
Click to expand...
Can’t see them buying it to be honest. This is what happens when you take someone like Boris seriously.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2020
  • #48,488
skybluetony176 said:
Peston has been tipped off from a senior Tory that the Lords are going to kill this bill. The Salisbury-Addison Convention apparently means that they have to hold the Government to account on their election manifesto and the bill contradicts their not even a year old election manifesto.
#easiestdealever
Click to expand...

The key word there is convention. It doesn’t carry legal weight. The government has a 80 seat majority to force the Internal Market Bill through the commons and potentially new legislation to deal with a non-compliant Lords. Which let’s not forget is an unelected house. The Lords can only defer legislation a couple of times.

Frankly, the Northern Ireland Protocol ought to be rewritten because it is messy for both the EU and the UK to govern. Won’t go into details, but I do quite a bit of customs work related to NI.

A backstop was certainly a simpler solution to the issue and probably less costly to the UK taxpayers.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,489
See Pelosi has come out and said if the withdrawal agreement undermines the GFA the UK can forget about a US trade deal.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,490
clint van damme said:
See Pelosi has come out and said if the withdrawal agreement undermines the GFA the UK can forget about a US trade deal.
Click to expand...

Tellingly the Trump admin trade rep has said similar things in the past.

Also the congressman who is the chair of the committee who approves trade deals has said the same thing.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,491
Mucca Mad Boys said:
The key word there is convention. It doesn’t carry legal weight. The government has a 80 seat majority to force the Internal Market Bill through the commons and potentially new legislation to deal with a non-compliant Lords. Which let’s not forget is an unelected house. The Lords can only defer legislation a couple of times.

Frankly, the Northern Ireland Protocol ought to be rewritten because it is messy for both the EU and the UK to govern. Won’t go into details, but I do quite a bit of customs work related to NI.

A backstop was certainly a simpler solution to the issue and probably less costly to the UK taxpayers.
Click to expand...

The Supreme Court is also likely to nix the bill anyway.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,492
There will be u-turn #54668 coming up then
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,493
Sick Boy said:
There will be u-turn #54668 coming up then
Click to expand...

The whole thing smells like a plan to try and force the hand of the EU
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,494
David O'Day said:
The whole thing smells like a plan to try and force the hand of the EU
Click to expand...

It's pretty silly then isn't it? Why don't they get it, it is not buying a car. It is trying to negotiate a withdrawal treaty that does not conflict with any of the EU's existing treaties. We are not going to get any special deals or exemptions unlike when we were a member.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,495
fernandopartridge said:
It's pretty silly then isn't it? Why don't they get it, it is not buying a car. It is trying to negotiate a withdrawal treaty that does not conflict with any of the EU's existing treaties. We are not going to get any special deals or exemptions unlike when we were a member.
Click to expand...

It plays up for the brexiters though, I am beginning to suspect that no deal is what they want. Either that or they know their promised great deal is never going to happen so are laying the groundwork that will enable them to blame the EU for the shit storm the economy will become.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,496
David O'Day said:
The Supreme Court is also likely to nix the bill anyway.
Click to expand...

It’s not that simple. In practice, once a legislation passes through parliament, only another act of parliament can reverse it. Our Supreme Court is not like it’s USA counterpart.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,497
clint van damme said:
See Pelosi has come out and said if the withdrawal agreement undermines the GFA the UK can forget about a US trade deal.
Click to expand...

So it could prevent the opening up of the NHS?

Mind you, I'm sure if they knew there was money to be made they'd find a loophole round it.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,498
With the 'festival' where they're asking for creatives to come up with things to 'heal' the country...

As the entire point of Brexit has supposedly been to regain our sovereignty and control of our laws, why not have that celebration as geting parliament to use those powers to pass bills creating a fairer and more just society?

Would have far more effect on healing the country than Brexit: The Musical or the Withdrawal Agreement expressed through modern dance.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,499
Is anyone really that surprised that Johnson is reneging on a Withdrawal Agreement given the number of kids he has?
 
Reactions: Ian1779, fernandopartridge and clint van damme

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,500
Mucca Mad Boys said:
It’s not that simple. In practice, once a legislation passes through parliament, only another act of parliament can reverse it. Our Supreme Court is not like it’s USA counterpart.
Click to expand...

It can nix secondary legislation that is created from powers delegated by a primary and you can make an over whelming case to show that this is what this is.
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,501
I think we all know Johnson will just push for no deal rather than upset America
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,502
Evo1883 said:
I think we all know Johnson will just push for no deal rather than upset America
Click to expand...

But the noise coming from the States is no deal with them if he undermines the GFA.
He's got himself in a bit of a pickle - or should that be Cummings has got him in a bit of a pickle?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,503
Evo1883 said:
I think we all know Johnson will just push for no deal rather than upset America
Click to expand...
You’re majorly underestimating the Irish-American lobby over there.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,504
Evo1883 said:
I think we all know Johnson will just push for no deal rather than upset America
Click to expand...

You do realise that no deal will upset America as it will necessitate a hard border in N.I. you can't have your cake and eat it
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,505
fernandopartridge said:
You do realise that no deal will upset America as it will necessitate a hard border in N.I. you can't have your cake and eat it
Click to expand...

I think the government, if push came to shove, would say they won’t police the border and put the onus on the EU to police it, if at all. The issue here is that NI would be staging point for smuggling between the EU and the UK.

The issue is the customs border, because as things stand, the UK doesn’t want to police the sea border between NI and GB. Yet, the EU is policing that border on the island of Ireland.

The issue over the NI border would be taken to the WTO and so on. It is a mess.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,506
David O'Day said:
It plays up for the brexiters though, I am beginning to suspect that no deal is what they want. Either that or they know their promised great deal is never going to happen so are laying the groundwork that will enable them to blame the EU for the shit storm the economy will become.
Click to expand...
Boris’ own sister said as much during the GE campaign. Something along the lines of Boris does not represent the voters he represents the disaster capitalist that have backed him to this point and a no deal Brexit suits them.
 
Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,507
It all feels like a restoration of personal fiefdoms away from the corporate to me.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,508
BMW are leaving it late to save these Brexit negotiations.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #48,509
Even ERG members are starting to criticise the bill. Got a feeling that this might not prove to be as easy as Cummings... err, sorry, Boris thinks it will be.
 
Last edited: Sep 10, 2020

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 11, 2020
  • #48,510
Good news that we have an agreement in principle for a trade deal with Japan. Of course the devil will be in the detail in terms of what it gives us that last years EU - Japan deal lacked.
 
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