Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Mayor Cheat as he is coming to be known won't handle it. Sanders remains the best chance.
Whoever gets it has to face up to the biggest social media & propaganda assault the world has ever seen
It's beyond naïve to think that we and the Yanks don't do it to other countries. Heck the Americans have been rigging foreign elections and initiating coups for decades. Are you claiming that it's down to them Trump got elected and Brexit happened?
YesNot at all. I think that’s down to a decades long trend away from low education workers towards knowledge workers in first world economies.
But they do it and they do it well, though part of what they do well is give the impression of further reach and power than they actually have.
There is significant evidence of them running troll farms on a wider scale than we do by some distance. That’s mass labour work, not something a few spooks in a computer lab can do and so will leak out if it’s done at scale. It has in Russia, it hasn’t here. They also use state media and influence in a far more blatant way than we do (as part of a strategy). There is lots of evidence of our politicians on both sides having dodgy links and a lot history of spy craft between both countries. Ultimately I am British and care more about being attacked by someone who’s values are so different to mine than my own country doing similar, on a smaller scale, in defence of values I believe in.
Yes
They want to destabilise. And you have to concede that in the war of misinformation, they have routed USA and us.
Not at all. I think that’s down to a decades long trend away from low education workers towards knowledge workers in first world economies.
But they do it and they do it well, though part of what they do well is give the impression of further reach and power than they actually have.
There is significant evidence of them running troll farms on a wider scale than we do by some distance. That’s mass labour work, not something a few spooks in a computer lab can do and so will leak out if it’s done at scale. It has in Russia, it hasn’t here. They also use state media and influence in a far more blatant way than we do (as part of a strategy). There is lots of evidence of our politicians on both sides having dodgy links and a lot history of spy craft between both countries. Ultimately I am British and care more about being attacked by someone who’s values are so different to mine than my own country doing similar, on a smaller scale, in defence of values I believe in.
Yes
They want to destabilise. And you have to concede that in the war of misinformation, they have routed USA and us.
Here we go again penning people into boxes based on where they're born
Too broad a question. The west has used force to achieve their aims, Russia has used more subversive and inarguably more effective means. Which has done ‘more’ to destabilise? Russia I would say, they’ve pushed Brexit and played a part in the US presidency, the very countries who have done their share of destabilising. They destabilised the destabilisers if you like. Not bad going.Which country has done more to destabilise the world since the collapse of the USSR? Them or the West?
?
I’ve not got a problem with Putins values because he’s Russian.
Russia was not able to go to war with anyone since the 1990s in a traditional manner. But they have been waging their own war and they won it.So why talk about being British and the values it connotates? Russian citizens are told the same thing about us and look at what good it does on both sides. How many overseas wars has Russia initiated since the 90s? It is far from a model state. But while it has been working away on the internet we have been invading and destabilising countries all over the place.
And true to form, we started all of it. The SOE was the ‘inspiration’ for Russian intelligence, historically Russia saw us as their traditional enemies, not the USA.Russia was not able to go to war with anyone since the 1990s in a traditional manner. But they have been waging their own war and they won it.
Too broad a question. The west has used force to achieve their aims, Russia has used more subversive and inarguably more effective means. Which has done ‘more’ to destabilise? Russia I would say, they’ve pushed Brexit and played a part in the US presidency, the very countries who have done their share of destabilising. They destabilised the destabilisers if you like. Not bad going.
Russia was not able to go to war with anyone since the 1990s in a traditional manner. But they have been waging their own war and they won it.
I am aware of that and I know we are not, by any measure, the default good guys.Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million mind you and all the Russians did was help to expose Hillary for the corrupt person everyone knew she was. The Middle East is a disaster zone thanks to Western intervention. Libya is the new Somalia thanks to Cameron and Obama. They have been in Afghanistan for nearly 20 years and the situation is worse than when they arrived. Ask most people around the world who the biggest threat is and they don't say Russia, they say the USA.
We are not always the good guys by default.
It’s not “thanks” to Putin, that’s too general. But go look at the donations and funding and how much came from Russia, in particular the inimitable Arron Banks who ran leave.eu, the people who pulled at the emotional heartstrings of people with the constant talk of immigration.It's not thanks to Putin that we're leaving the EU
It’s not “thanks” to Putin, that’s too general. But go look at the donations and funding and how much came from Russia, in particular the inimitable Arron Banks who ran leave.eu, the people who pulled at the emotional heartstrings of people with the constant talk of immigration.
They aren’t the only reason but do not underestimate their role.
Who reads leaflets? everyone has social media, which was swamped by leave. You can check it, it’s documented.Are we going to ignore the millions that the Cameron government spent trying to get people to vote Remain? The leaflets alone cost Christ knows how much
£11m wasn’t itAre we going to ignore the millions that the Cameron government spent trying to get people to vote Remain? The leaflets alone cost Christ knows how much
Who reads leaflets? everyone has social media, which was swamped by leave. You can check it, it’s documented.
I already said I didn’t “blame” the Russians, but I did say they had a part to play that you should not underestimate. The info is all around you if you take the time to look- don’t be so blinkered.Keep blaming the Russians buddy
You don’t have to look far, even bloody Wikipedia has a section on it.Keep blaming the Russians buddy
So why talk about being British and the values it connotates? Russian citizens are told the same thing about us and look at what good it does on both sides. How many overseas wars has Russia initiated since the 90s? It is far from a model state. But while it has been working away on the internet we have been invading and destabilising countries all over the place.
You don’t have to look far, even bloody Wikipedia has a section on it.
Russian interference in the 2016 Brexit referendum - Wikipedia
And I hate the way that we are becoming less liberal.It just so happens I believe more in the liberal democracy ideal of the west than the authoritarian east is all. If governments change then fair enough but for now I’m happy with that stance. Why are you so defensive? I’ve said they’re good at modern cold warfare and are using tactics I’d expect from a smaller power with less resource.
No I agree, but that wasn’t the point was it?They use computers we and our allies use tanks, bullets and bombs. History won't judge any of them favourably
And I hate the way that we are becoming less liberal.
That’s the point, they do have less resource. They can’t take on USA in traditional warfare, they couldn’t win. They were smart enough to work out other ways to achieve their aims- ie destabilisation.It just so happens I believe more in the liberal democracy ideal of the west than the authoritarian east is all. If governments change then fair enough but for now I’m happy with that stance. Why are you so defensive? I’ve said they’re good at modern cold warfare and are using tactics I’d expect from a smaller power with less resource.
It just so happens I believe more in the liberal democracy ideal of the west than the authoritarian east is all. If governments change then fair enough but for now I’m happy with that stance. Why are you so defensive? I’ve said they’re good at modern cold warfare and are using tactics I’d expect from a smaller power with less resource.
Because I'm tired of having 'enemy' states where both sets of people are taught that their opposite numbers are bad because xyz. We in the West have done far more physical harm than they have.
Yes but this isn’t about a historical analysis, its about what is happening now.Because I'm tired of having 'enemy' states where both sets of people are taught that their opposite numbers are bad because xyz. We in the West have done far more physical harm than they have.
That’s the point, they do have less resource. They can’t take on USA in traditional warfare, they couldn’t win. They were smart enough to work out other ways to achieve their aims- ie destabilisation.
Russia have always seen us as the enemy.Im tired of it too, but the fact is Russia don’t like us and are actively engaged in trying to disrupt our democracy. And until that stops we’ll need countermeasures. I hope when (if) Putin goes there can be genuine peace.
Yes but this isn’t about a historical analysis, its about what is happening now.
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