That is not what I asked. I'll try again: "in your opinion does England have a racism problem that is getting worse?"
I said majority, it is a majority, stop the semantics and trying to bend the truth. Your own study that you put up contradicts you.
"various nuances"- what a load of crap
More whataboutery and deflection, shock horror. And if you think it isn't getting worse, despite all the evidence & what happens every single day, then you seriously have zero credibility whatsoever, and you are part of the problem. I actually don't think you even believe it yourself, you just don't want to say anything that agrees with me because I showed you up on all those other threads.If you are looking at It from a perspective of the goal having zero racism unless a country has no ethnicity then the answer will always be there are racists
in my experience are we more tolerant than any country I’ve visited - yes
is it getting worse - no
More whataboutery and deflection, shock horror. And if you think it isn't getting worse, despite all the evidence & what happens every single day, then you seriously have zero credibility whatsoever, and you are part of the problem. I actually don't think you even believe it yourself, you just don't want to say anything that agrees with me because I showed you up on all those other threads.
If you want to try bending words then I'm here all day, it won't go well for you.So you’re saying none of the concerns in relation control of immigration listed are valid concerns for people around the country ? As I say, unfortunately you’re part of the problem
So you’re saying none of the concerns in relation control of immigration listed are valid concerns for people around the country ? As I say, unfortunately you’re part of the problem
ps 40% isn’t a majority, it’s the no 1 reason yes but sovereignty (c35%) and cost (20%+) together alone make up significantly more than this
If you mean I have personal views that consequently mean I don't like the fact that we have a racism issue in the country then maybe so. If only you had the same personal issues, maybe we'd be living in a better country, you are clearly ok with how things are going, as you refuse to even acknowledge the issue.yes showed me up on the fact Sisu didn’t spend more than £20m and oddly the trust website said exactly the same as me.
you clearly have some personal issue on this particular topic which is clouding your judgement
If you want to try bending words then I'm here all day, it won't go well for you.
Racism is on the rise. Brexit has worsened it. It is happening every day in every city.
You are trying to link politics into it and deal in semantics & chicanery to disprove the point, I am not, I accept there is worsening racism and that it has to stop and in order to do that people have to sit up and take notice before we end up back where we started.
And yet in your mind, I am the problem
You don't have a leg to stand on.
If your mum had bollocks she'd be your dad, what about this, what if that, take the number you first though of and treble it, look at the median & take a weighted average- yeah yeah whatever.
Every single day racism is getting worse, and you seek to put up charts & figures and downplay it & fudge it and explain it away- this is the problem, you are an enabler by point blank refusing to accept that there is a horrible, disgusting issue to be dealt with, you are more concerned with pissing around with polls and studies.
Well... 43.6% seems to be considered a majority by many...You think 40% is a majority FFS
Well... 43.6% seems to be considered a majority by many...
Ah stop, that is absolute bollocks, utter crap- you can put up as many charts and white justifications as you like, until you’ve been in the shoes of the people that get abuse, subtle digs, ridicule, excluded every single day because of their colour & place of birth then you can’t say shit like this. This is the very definition of being in denial, the epitome of deflection- we see racism and xenophobia every day and it’s getting worse, but actually “there is no problem cause I have a great chart that shows there isn’t a problem”. It proves absolutely nothing apart from what I have already said- English people don’t come out and say they’re xenophobic, because they don’t actually believe they are xenophobic, they say the right things and they think they mean them, but when push comes to shove, racism and xenophobia are everywhere around us.
So, the majority have not endorsed Johnson's Brexit strategy.No it doesn’t it’s the largest not the majority
If you want to try bending words then I'm here all day, it won't go well for you.
Racism is on the rise. Brexit has worsened it. It is happening every day in every city.
You are trying to link politics into it and deal in semantics & chicanery to disprove the point, I am not, I accept there is worsening racism and that it has to stop and in order to do that people have to sit up and take notice before we end up back where we started.
And yet in your mind, I am the problem
You don't have a leg to stand on.
We have youtube videos of immigrant kids being beaten up & verbally abused every single day, football fans chanting racist songs, everyone can see its getting worse (except you apparently, although you're lying) and your priority is talking figures & charts & random studies and trying to deflect, and because it doesn't happen to you, you don't see any real problem. Great sense of values you have, lovely guyYou think 40% is a majority FFS
I was going to point this out, plus other examples, but I knew it would be totally lost on them.So, the majority have not endorsed Johnson's Brexit strategy.
So, the majority have not endorsed Johnson's Brexit strategy.
Brexit was a xenophobic vote. If you can't see that and want to read academic articles then more power to you, but your head is well and truly buried in the sand.I was referring back to you saying Brexit was a racist vote
I have agreed racism is on the rise, I have agreed it needs to be stamped out so not quite sure what you’re on about.
The point I am making is that unless you listen to and address people’s genuine concerns, you exacerbate the problem. If some of those issues/concerns relating to controlling immigration (that I listed earlier) had been listened to or addressed pre referendum, remain would’ve won and as we agree that the Brexit vote appears to have empowered/emboldened racists, I rest my case.
I was going to point this out, plus other examples, but I knew it would be totally lost on them.
If we want to go down this route we'd be here all day deliberating how it can be that with our election system, you don't need a majority, history shows that with our ridiculous system you can do what you want with a minority.Impossible to say as it’s not a referendum but it’s clear it was far more popular than revoking article 50 or a second referendum
If we want to go down this route we'd be here all day deliberating how it can be that with our election system, you don't need a majority, history shows that with our ridiculous system you can do what you want with a minority.
More popular than over 50%. Right...Impossible to say as it’s not a referendum but it’s clear it was far more popular than revoking article 50 or a second referendum
More popular than over 50%. Right...
wow I really got inside your head didn't I? How's Sam Allardyce by the way? Is the meter still running for Robins' Uber?Lost on “them” - ha ha you are the thick fuck who believed Sisu spent £75m as you read it, ironic really as you accuse others of stupidly reading and following propaganda articles
Brexit was a xenophobic vote. If you can't see that and want to read academic articles then more power to you, but your head is well and truly buried in the sand.
As for me exacerbating the problem, I don't think its me that is trying to tie it all to politics, you are. I am talking about what happens in real life, in real homes, in real schools, in real workplaces every single day, I am not the one pontificating & waxing lyrical about this study and that study and all that garbage, and then you say that if immigration was resolved pre referendum then Remain would have own, thus even then confirming that immigration (and xenophobia) was the biggest issue.
I have no quarrel with you or anyone else, but try living in the real world, stop trying to get inside peoples heads and extrapolate their thoughts.
wow I really got inside your head didn't I? How's Sam Allardyce by the way? Is the meter still running for Robins' Uber?
Anyway once again you digress, your ignorance is disgusting .
But the concerns people have/had regarding EU immigration are the real world and ignoring them is my point
I dug out that analysis in one minute after googling as I wanted to check both your/my comments on the Brexit vote. 60% of people who voted leave did so for issues totally unrelated to immigration. I have also already explained that control of immigration (for various reasons - some valid, some not) is very different from ‘I don’t like foreigners’
You’re right with many of your comments on racism, but I don’t agree with all of them, that doesn’t mean I’m burying my head in the sand !
very well put :emoji_ok_hand:There is a possibility that some of those who were saying they wanted to regain control of our laws or even said they had issues with immigration due to the number and the pressure it was putting on services and housing may have done so as a cover for a more racist reason which they knew wouldn't be considered socially acceptable. Since voting leave there has definitely been more willingness from those with those attitudes to openly express them, as people haven't just become racist overnight. In a weird way this can be useful because it does bring the issue back into sharper focus and give a truer indication of levels of racism than before when people hid them. It shows how much more we've got to do and how much further we've got to go to truly get on top of this problem.
In that case, if I have indeed labelled you incorrectly then please accept my apologies. I am passionate about this- I still 'feel' English and I despair at what I see & hear every single day, I want to be proud of the the country when it comes to racial attitudes, and its truly scary how bad it is getting.But the concerns people have/had regarding EU immigration are the real world and ignoring them is my point
I dug out that analysis in one minute after googling as I wanted to check both your/my comments on the Brexit vote. 60% of people who voted leave did so for issues totally unrelated to immigration. I have also already explained that control of immigration (for various reasons - some valid, some not) is very different from ‘I don’t like foreigners’
You’re right with many of your comments on racism, but I don’t agree with all of them, that doesn’t mean I’m burying my head in the sand !
No, people like you who don’t think there is a racism problem and think that it’s not getting worse are at fault :emoji_thumbsup:Oh so now it’s the electoral system at fault is it?
very well put :emoji_ok_hand:
That was kind of my point, English people say all the right things, and lots don't actually think they are racist, but soon as it became acceptable to air their real views they have jumped at the chance, out come all the previously hidden xenopohobic attitudes. And they now fight to protect their "right" to be racist, under the banner of liberalism. You are also dead right about the fact that Brexit didn't somehow convert people to racism, these attitudes and beliefs were there already, they just had to be kept private before, or at least more private. Now we see what we are dealing with, and its sickening & disgusting, and we have a huge problem with it.
I am reassured that people like you can see this for what it is and call it for what it is, as opposed to trying to explain it away, put up a few charts and pretend that its not getting worse.
I am full of admiration for your eloquence and understanding, Mr Dreamer.
While that very kind of you I did also have an earlier post that disagreed about Brexit being just a 'racist decision' - racism will have played a part in it but so would many other factors - and that the problem is an English rather than British problem.
There is a possibility that some of those who were saying they wanted to regain control of our laws or even said they had issues with immigration due to the number and the pressure it was putting on services and housing may have done so as a cover for a more racist reason which they knew wouldn't be considered socially acceptable. Since voting leave there has definitely been more willingness from those with those attitudes to openly express them, as people haven't just become racist overnight. In a weird way this can be useful because it does bring the issue back into sharper focus and give a truer indication of levels of racism than before when people hid them. It shows how much more we've got to do and how much further we've got to go to truly get on top of this problem.
I guess that all the racist abuse, assaults, chants, violence, islamaphobia that happens every single day is all rubbish too, all made up. People like you are part of the problem, you refuse to accept that there is an issue.
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