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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (9 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #44,381
SkyblueBazza said:
So you would agree that Catalans should have their independence? How about Cornwall? London? Coventry? Bedworth?

What you are aiming toward despite your comments about the GFA is pure out & out war & anarchy.

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Click to expand...

Wow, just wow.

How would following the GFA with regards to a referendum on a united Ireland be aiming for pure out and out war and anarchy?

Your comparison of Coventry and Bedworth to Ireland and the provisions for a referendum on reunification is priceless and one of your best yet. And yet you still have the nerve to try and act condescending towards others.
 
Last edited: Oct 22, 2019

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #44,382
SkyblueBazza said:
Empty heads make the most noise. Young people seeking a sense of purpose that find one are going to make a lot of noise too - they get quite excitable.

The youngsters at said vote rally are not necessarily representative of youth at large. Just like those carry knives & those that get pissed every Friday night aren't!

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Click to expand...
Patronising twaddle
 
Reactions: shmmeee and Sick Boy
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,383
Sick Boy said:
Wow, just wow.

How would following the GFA with regards to a referendum on a united Ireland be aiming for pure out and out war and anarchy?

Your comparison of Coventry and Bedworth to Ireland and the provisions for a referendum on reunification is priceless and one of your best yet. And yet you still have the nerve to try and act condescending towards others.
Click to expand...
You said "if they both want it"...well if that mean NI & Scotland all you are talking about is opening the floodgates for the break-up of probably 90% of nations. That would mean erecting borders...& that is what led to the troubles that led to the GFA!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,384
fernandopartridge said:
Patronising twaddle
Click to expand...
Yes but if we focus on another specific case, a school in Beaconsfield on News at Ten last night seemed to suggest the young are as divided as the old. So for every specific of relatively small carefully selected examples to support an argument...somebody else can find a contradictory one!


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Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,385
SkyblueBazza said:
You said "if they both want it"...well if that mean NI & Scotland all you are talking about is opening the floodgates for the break-up of probably 90% of nations. That would mean erecting borders...& that is what led to the troubles that led to the GFA!

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Breaking the GFA and denying a united Ireland (if that was what Ireland and the north wanted) would lead to far more bloodshed.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,386
Deleted member 5849 said:
People with the relevant skills can make a far more informed prediction than you or I. The reduction of experts to nothing is one of the saddest states of affairs of modern Britain.
Click to expand...

As I say often: all models are wrong, but some models are useful. Similarly all papers having bias doesn’t mean you ignore all papers, you just correct for bias.

People have taken the very reasonable approach of “question everything” without the cognitive or research skills to manage it and just end up with a load of emotive conspiracy nonsense.

SkyblueBazza said:
Yes but if we focus on another specific case, a school in Beaconsfield on News at Ten last night seemed to suggest the young are as divided as the old. So for every specific of relatively small carefully selected examples to support an argument...somebody else can find a contradictory one!


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Click to expand...

What are you on about? Just because you can’t parse information and data doesn’t mean anyone else can’t.

Also you’re talking about under 45s as if they’re school children. Mental.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,387
Sick Boy said:
Breaking the GFA and denying a united Ireland (if that was what Ireland and the north wanted) would lead to far more bloodshed.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree...but not the point you were making, unless I misinterpreted what you were saying initially that seemed to indicate to me that if people (anywhere) want independence you should give it them!?

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Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,388
SkyblueBazza said:
Yes, I agree...but not the point you were making, unless I misinterpreted what you were saying initially that seemed to indicate to me that if people (anywhere) want independence you should give it them!?

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I was replying to a post about NI and Scotland.
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,389
3 and a half years and the tossers still want more time, disgraceful... losing more and more votes by the day!! Bring on the election
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,390
Conservatives still showing as having a 15 point lead.. Labour are finished unless they replace Corbyn
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,391
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Conservatives still showing as having a 15 point lead.. Labour are finished unless they replace Corbyn
Click to expand...

Which is it? Labour's policies or their leader? You're contradicting yourself as usual dim
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,392
fernandopartridge said:
Which is it? Labour's policies or their leader? You're contradicting yourself as usual dim
Click to expand...

Corbyn, when did i say anything about policies?
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,393
SkyBlueDom26 said:
3 and a half years and the tossers still want more time, disgraceful... losing more and more votes by the day!! Bring on the election
Click to expand...

But according to Alexander this is a brand new bill, not May's rewarmed, so it's only actually existed about a week. Therefore it should surely be given at least the same amount of scrutiny as any other bill, probably more given the massive effect it will have on so many aspects of British life and business. But hey, let's just rush it through....

Given Alexander's reputation and love of Latin I wouldn't be surprised if he'd snuck a droit de signeur/prima nocta clause in their somewhere or once a year on Brexit day the EU can have a version of Bonfire Night where they all mock the British and burn models of famous British landmarks.

Plus don't forget that parliament passed the second reading. They only refused to allow a speeded up process. It's your hero Alexander who's threatened to pull the entire bill, so he's the one that has put Brexit back in jeopardy.

Unless of course you believe he always intended to pull the bill at any given opportunity to get either a no-deal Brexit or force an election where he'll claim to the leavers he's been frustrated in getting Brexit done and once again the idiots will lap it up...

No-one has done more in preventing Brexit happening than Alexander, from refusing to back May's WA to threatening to pull his Brexit bill.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and djr8369

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,394
John Bercow to STAY past October 31! Speaker could cling onto power now Brexit is delayed

Well well well, who didn't see this coming
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,395
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Corbyn, when did i say anything about policies?
Click to expand...
You said in the prior post 3.5 years and they still want time. That suggests you've a problem with labour wanting to scrutunise the bill.

Parliament only had sight of the draft WAB a couple of days ago, so 3.5 years is a complete misnomer or you just don't get how things work.
 
Reactions: djr8369

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,396
fernandopartridge said:
You said in the prior post 3.5 years and they still want time. That suggests you've a problem with labour wanting to scrutunise the bill.

Parliament only had sight of the draft WAB a couple of days ago, so 3.5 years is a complete misnomer or you just don't get how things work.
Click to expand...

Labour should realise how them constantly delaying the process is losing them so many votes!! Will be brilliant to see how parliament will look after the elections
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,397
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Labour should realise how them constantly delaying the process is losing them so many votes!! Will be brilliant to see how parliament will look after the elections
Click to expand...

Who threatened to pull the bill entirely?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,398
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Who threatened to pull the bill entirely?
Click to expand...

the original bill without amendments? No one.
 
Reactions: SkyBlueDom26

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,399
Grendel said:
the original bill without amendments? No one.
Click to expand...

C.mon. You can do this. I have faith in you. Who was the person who threatened they would remove the Withdrawal Agreement entirely and thus prevent Brexit occuring?

Direct quote from said person. 'With great regret I must say the Bill will have to be pulled and we will have to go forward to a general election, in no circumstances can the government continue with this."
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,400
Sick Boy said:
I was replying to a post about NI and Scotland.
Click to expand...
Then my original point stands. If you encourage independence in Scotland, Cornwall et al. Can feel emboldened in seeking the same. NI/ROI is a perfect example of what that can lead to.

Just the same, but in reverse, as being annexed via aggressive or peaceful means can!

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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,401
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
C.mon. You can do this. I have faith in you. Who was the person who threatened they would remove the Withdrawal Agreement entirely and thus prevent Brexit occuring?

Direct quote from said person. 'With great regret I must say the Bill will have to be pulled and we will have to go forward to a general election, in no circumstances can the government continue with this."
Click to expand...

The opposition due to the constitutional coup conducted on Saturday which allowed the Letwin Bill. I hate to disappoint you but Johnson is gaining supporters every day of this saga
 
Reactions: SkyBlueDom26
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,402
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
C.mon. You can do this. I have faith in you. Who was the person who threatened they would remove the Withdrawal Agreement entirely and thus prevent Brexit occuring?

Direct quote from said person. 'With great regret I must say the Bill will have to be pulled and we will have to go forward to a general election, in no circumstances can the government continue with this."
Click to expand...
It cannot continue with it though can it? Amendments passed would then need to go back to the EU for accept or decline. Highly likely not all would be accepted...& we thereby enter into a back & forward over years. And that is BEFORE we start negotiating the next phase! At the moment parliament is hell-bent on preventing Brexit.

That is why a GE is the only way. All the arguments people (especially MPs) wanting to remain have levelled at those wishing to leave by not having another referendum have come back to bite them on the arse!

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SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,403

Yes then Boris, telling it how it is
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,404
shmmeee said:
People have taken the very reasonable approach of “question everything” without the cognitive or research skills to manage it and just end up with a load of emotive conspiracy nonsense.

.
Click to expand...

Indeed. I’m not sure it’s really understood just how widespread and problematic this is.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: shmmeee

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,405
SkyblueBazza said:
It cannot continue with it though can it? Amendments passed would then need to go back to the EU for accept or decline. Highly likely not all would be accepted...& we thereby enter into a back & forward over years. And that is BEFORE we start negotiating the next phase! At the moment parliament is hell-bent on preventing Brexit.

That is why a GE is the only way. All the arguments people (especially MPs) wanting to remain have levelled at those wishing to leave by not having another referendum have come back to bite them on the arse!

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Click to expand...

I think there would be more chance of getting this sorted if he accepts the extension and allows a vote on the amendments. I'd imagine most of those proposed would relate to workers rights which he'd have to make concessions on but I don't think the EU would decline.

If the GE isn't the tory landslide that some people think it will be and I suspect it wont be, and the government has a small majority or needs to enter into an arrangement similar to the one it had with the DUP then we're back to square one.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and Sky_Blue_Dreamer

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,406
clint van damme said:
If the GE isn't the tory landslide that some people think it will be and I suspect it wont be,
Click to expand...

It will be as people are fed up and won't vote for parties intending on delaying brexit anymore, anyway if he has to make a pact with someone it will be with the brexit party
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,407
SkyBlueDom26 said:
It will be as people are fed up and won't vote for parties intending on delaying brexit anymore, anyway if he has to make a pact with someone it will be with the brexit party
Click to expand...

I don't think it will, I could be wrong, and if it's a pact with anyone it means the government don't have a workable majority which means it's groundhog day.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,408
Grendel said:
The opposition due to the constitutional coup conducted on Saturday which allowed the Letwin Bill. I hate to disappoint you but Johnson is gaining supporters every day of this saga
Click to expand...

I've no doubt Alexander is gaining supporters. But he's doing what he's been doing since the day he came to prominence. Hoodwinking them and getting them to believe his dis-ingenuity.

The fact is parliament has potentially elongated the process of passing this bill, Boris has threatened to end it all together.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,409
SkyBlueDom26 said:
It will be as people are fed up and won't vote for parties intending on delaying brexit anymore, anyway if he has to make a pact with someone it will be with the brexit party
Click to expand...

That’s what Labour and Lib Dems are Hopi for. They (the anti Brexit parties) have support focused on different areas, Labour up north and Libs down south in a nutshell.

The only hope they have is that the Brexit vote, which is spread all between Tory shires where Lib Dem’s are strong and working class communities where Labour are, is split between Tory and BXP and lets through their candidate.

As an example, imagine a seat with these votes in 2017: Lab 6000, Con 8000

Then add in BXP and it might look like:
Lab 5500, Con 5000, BXP 3500. The Brexit vote increases but let’s Labour through as it’s split.

They’d need a pact before a GE and Boris has ruled that out and many Tory voters wouldn’t vote BXP just as many BXP voters won’t vote Tory. The Lib/Lab voters are a lot more well versed in tactical voting.

The other question is turnout, the Brexit vote contains a lot of people who have never voted before and may not turn out for a GE.

I’m expecting a Tory win whenever the GE is, but I’m not expecting BXP to have many seats because they don’t have localised support. I suspect because the country is split 50:50 we’ll end up with a similar split in parliament. SNP are likely to clean up in Scotland and cost the Tories seats for example.

There’s every likelihood that we end up with another hung parliament or near as damn it. That’s why we need a referendum to sort this out. The country is split 50:50
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,410
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I've no doubt Alexander is gaining supporters. But he's doing what he's been doing since the day he came to prominence. Hoodwinking them and getting them to believe his dis-ingenuity.

The fact is parliament has potentially elongated the process of passing this bill, Boris has threatened to end it all together.
Click to expand...

Point of order: Parliament hasn’t elongated the process, they’ve just not allowed it to be shortened.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,411
SkyBlueDom26 said:

Yes then Boris, telling it how it is
Click to expand...

As disingenuous as Alexander's Brexit stance, when in the past he's been supportive of the EU and wrote two pieces for his newspaper column - one pro-EU and one anti-EU - and only chose which one to publish after he knew which side Cameron was supporting in the referendum so he could cause the most disruption and advance his own political career.

When are you going to realise Alexander doesn't care one jot about Brexit. He cares about himself. If you guaranteed him an election win as long as he dropped Brexit he'd do it in a heartbeat. Even his own family don't think he's trustworthy and does things solely out of self-interest.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,412
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I've no doubt Alexander is gaining supporters. But he's doing what he's been doing since the day he came to prominence. Hoodwinking them and getting them to believe his dis-ingenuity.

The fact is parliament has potentially elongated the process of passing this bill, Boris has threatened to end it all together.
Click to expand...

No the opposition have said already they will add amendments which have not been agreed by the 27 other countries so it has in its pure form already been rejected
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,413
shmmeee said:
Point of order: Parliament hasn’t elongated the process, they’ve just not allowed it to be shortened.
Click to expand...

I said potentially elongated it because if the bill is amended it will have to then go back to the EU for agreement, unlike a normal bill which would just pass the house, pass the Lords and become law.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,414
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
As disingenuous as Alexander's Brexit stance, when in the past he's been supportive of the EU and wrote two pieces for his newspaper column - one pro-EU and one anti-EU - and only chose which one to publish after he knew which side Cameron was supporting in the referendum so he could cause the most disruption and advance his own political career.

When are you going to realise Alexander doesn't care one jot about Brexit. He cares about himself. If you guaranteed him an election win as long as he dropped Brexit he'd do it in a heartbeat. Even his own family don't think he's trustworthy and does things solely out of self-interest.
Click to expand...

Same as the anti EU Mr Corbyn then the only difference being I cannot recollect Mr Johnson supporting an organisation that murdered English citizens on their own soil
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #44,415
clint van damme said:
I think there would be more chance of getting this sorted if he accepts the extension and allows a vote on the amendments. I'd imagine most of those proposed would relate to workers rights which he'd have to make concessions on but I don't think the EU would decline.

If the GE isn't the tory landslide that some people think it will be and I suspect it wont be, and the government has a small majority or needs to enter into an arrangement similar to the one it had with the DUP then we're back to square one.
Click to expand...

Yeah but that won’t be Boris’ fault. It will be (insert opposition party here)’s fault for fighting an election against Boris in the aim of winning seats to maintain the status quo in parliament as a deliberate attempt to block/delay Brexit. You just don’t get it do you. Anything other than rolling over and having your tummy tickled by Boris makes you an undemocratic, lesbian, lefty, communist, snowflake, climate change hoax buying vegan who will do anything to stop democracy # we know what we voted for.
 
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