The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (21 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

So you would agree that Catalans should have their independence? How about Cornwall? London? Coventry? Bedworth?

What you are aiming toward despite your comments about the GFA is pure out & out war & anarchy.

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Wow, just wow.

How would following the GFA with regards to a referendum on a united Ireland be aiming for pure out and out war and anarchy?

Your comparison of Coventry and Bedworth to Ireland and the provisions for a referendum on reunification is priceless and one of your best yet. And yet you still have the nerve to try and act condescending towards others.

 

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[fernandopartridge]

Empty heads make the most noise. Young people seeking a sense of purpose that find one are going to make a lot of noise too - they get quite excitable.

The youngsters at said vote rally are not necessarily representative of youth at large. Just like those carry knives & those that get pissed every Friday night aren't!

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Patronising twaddle

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Wow, just wow.

How would following the GFA with regards to a referendum on a united Ireland be aiming for pure out and out war and anarchy?

Your comparison of Coventry and Bedworth to Ireland and the provisions for a referendum on reunification is priceless and one of your best yet. And yet you still have the nerve to try and act condescending towards others.

You said "if they both want it"...well if that mean NI & Scotland all you are talking about is opening the floodgates for the break-up of probably 90% of nations. That would mean erecting borders...& that is what led to the troubles that led to the GFA!

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[SkyblueBazza]

Patronising twaddle

Yes but if we focus on another specific case, a school in Beaconsfield on News at Ten last night seemed to suggest the young are as divided as the old. So for every specific of relatively small carefully selected examples to support an argument...somebody else can find a contradictory one!


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[Sick Boy]

You said "if they both want it"...well if that mean NI & Scotland all you are talking about is opening the floodgates for the break-up of probably 90% of nations. That would mean erecting borders...& that is what led to the troubles that led to the GFA!

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Breaking the GFA and denying a united Ireland (if that was what Ireland and the north wanted) would lead to far more bloodshed.

 

[shmmeee]

People with the relevant skills can make a far more informed prediction than you or I. The reduction of experts to nothing is one of the saddest states of affairs of modern Britain.

As I say often: all models are wrong, but some models are useful. Similarly all papers having bias doesn’t mean you ignore all papers, you just correct for bias.

People have taken the very reasonable approach of “question everything” without the cognitive or research skills to manage it and just end up with a load of emotive conspiracy nonsense.

Yes but if we focus on another specific case, a school in Beaconsfield on News at Ten last night seemed to suggest the young are as divided as the old. So for every specific of relatively small carefully selected examples to support an argument...somebody else can find a contradictory one!


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What are you on about? Just because you can’t parse information and data doesn’t mean anyone else can’t.

Also you’re talking about under 45s as if they’re school children. Mental.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Breaking the GFA and denying a united Ireland (if that was what Ireland and the north wanted) would lead to far more bloodshed.

Yes, I agree...but not the point you were making, unless I misinterpreted what you were saying initially that seemed to indicate to me that if people (anywhere) want independence you should give it them!?

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[Sick Boy]

Yes, I agree...but not the point you were making, unless I misinterpreted what you were saying initially that seemed to indicate to me that if people (anywhere) want independence you should give it them!?

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I was replying to a post about NI and Scotland.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

3 and a half years and the tossers still want more time, disgraceful... losing more and more votes by the day!! Bring on the election

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Conservatives still showing as having a 15 point lead.. Labour are finished unless they replace Corbyn

 

[fernandopartridge]

Conservatives still showing as having a 15 point lead.. Labour are finished unless they replace Corbyn

Which is it? Labour's policies or their leader? You're contradicting yourself as usual dim

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Which is it? Labour's policies or their leader? You're contradicting yourself as usual dim

Corbyn, when did i say anything about policies?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

3 and a half years and the tossers still want more time, disgraceful... losing more and more votes by the day!! Bring on the election

But according to Alexander this is a brand new bill, not May's rewarmed, so it's only actually existed about a week. Therefore it should surely be given at least the same amount of scrutiny as any other bill, probably more given the massive effect it will have on so many aspects of British life and business. But hey, let's just rush it through....

Given Alexander's reputation and love of Latin I wouldn't be surprised if he'd snuck a droit de signeur/prima nocta clause in their somewhere or once a year on Brexit day the EU can have a version of Bonfire Night where they all mock the British and burn models of famous British landmarks.

Plus don't forget that parliament passed the second reading. They only refused to allow a speeded up process. It's your hero Alexander who's threatened to pull the entire bill, so he's the one that has put Brexit back in jeopardy.

Unless of course you believe he always intended to pull the bill at any given opportunity to get either a no-deal Brexit or force an election where he'll claim to the leavers he's been frustrated in getting Brexit done and once again the idiots will lap it up...

No-one has done more in preventing Brexit happening than Alexander, from refusing to back May's WA to threatening to pull his Brexit bill.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

John Bercow to STAY past October 31! Speaker could cling onto power now Brexit is delayed

Well well well, who didn't see this coming

 

[fernandopartridge]

Corbyn, when did i say anything about policies?

You said in the prior post 3.5 years and they still want time. That suggests you've a problem with labour wanting to scrutunise the bill.

Parliament only had sight of the draft WAB a couple of days ago, so 3.5 years is a complete misnomer or you just don't get how things work.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

You said in the prior post 3.5 years and they still want time. That suggests you've a problem with labour wanting to scrutunise the bill.

Parliament only had sight of the draft WAB a couple of days ago, so 3.5 years is a complete misnomer or you just don't get how things work.

Labour should realise how them constantly delaying the process is losing them so many votes!! Will be brilliant to see how parliament will look after the elections

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Labour should realise how them constantly delaying the process is losing them so many votes!! Will be brilliant to see how parliament will look after the elections

Who threatened to pull the bill entirely?

 

[Grendel]

Who threatened to pull the bill entirely?

the original bill without amendments? No one.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

the original bill without amendments? No one.

C.mon. You can do this. I have faith in you. Who was the person who threatened they would remove the Withdrawal Agreement entirely and thus prevent Brexit occuring?

Direct quote from said person. 'With great regret I must say the Bill will have to be pulled and we will have to go forward to a general election, in no circumstances can the government continue with this."

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I was replying to a post about NI and Scotland.

Then my original point stands. If you encourage independence in Scotland, Cornwall et al. Can feel emboldened in seeking the same. NI/ROI is a perfect example of what that can lead to.

Just the same, but in reverse, as being annexed via aggressive or peaceful means can!

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[Grendel]

C.mon. You can do this. I have faith in you. Who was the person who threatened they would remove the Withdrawal Agreement entirely and thus prevent Brexit occuring?

Direct quote from said person. 'With great regret I must say the Bill will have to be pulled and we will have to go forward to a general election, in no circumstances can the government continue with this."

The opposition due to the constitutional coup conducted on Saturday which allowed the Letwin Bill. I hate to disappoint you but Johnson is gaining supporters every day of this saga

 

[SkyblueBazza]

C.mon. You can do this. I have faith in you. Who was the person who threatened they would remove the Withdrawal Agreement entirely and thus prevent Brexit occuring?

Direct quote from said person. 'With great regret I must say the Bill will have to be pulled and we will have to go forward to a general election, in no circumstances can the government continue with this."

It cannot continue with it though can it? Amendments passed would then need to go back to the EU for accept or decline. Highly likely not all would be accepted...& we thereby enter into a back & forward over years. And that is BEFORE we start negotiating the next phase! At the moment parliament is hell-bent on preventing Brexit.

That is why a GE is the only way. All the arguments people (especially MPs) wanting to remain have levelled at those wishing to leave by not having another referendum have come back to bite them on the arse!

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[SkyBlueDom26]

Yes then Boris, telling it how it is

 

[djr8369]

People have taken the very reasonable approach of “question everything” without the cognitive or research skills to manage it and just end up with a load of emotive conspiracy nonsense.

.

Indeed. I’m not sure it’s really understood just how widespread and problematic this is.



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[clint van damme]

It cannot continue with it though can it? Amendments passed would then need to go back to the EU for accept or decline. Highly likely not all would be accepted...& we thereby enter into a back & forward over years. And that is BEFORE we start negotiating the next phase! At the moment parliament is hell-bent on preventing Brexit.

That is why a GE is the only way. All the arguments people (especially MPs) wanting to remain have levelled at those wishing to leave by not having another referendum have come back to bite them on the arse!

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I think there would be more chance of getting this sorted if he accepts the extension and allows a vote on the amendments. I'd imagine most of those proposed would relate to workers rights which he'd have to make concessions on but I don't think the EU would decline.

If the GE isn't the tory landslide that some people think it will be and I suspect it wont be, and the government has a small majority or needs to enter into an arrangement similar to the one it had with the DUP then we're back to square one.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

If the GE isn't the tory landslide that some people think it will be and I suspect it wont be,

It will be as people are fed up and won't vote for parties intending on delaying brexit anymore, anyway if he has to make a pact with someone it will be with the brexit party

 

[clint van damme]

It will be as people are fed up and won't vote for parties intending on delaying brexit anymore, anyway if he has to make a pact with someone it will be with the brexit party

I don't think it will, I could be wrong, and if it's a pact with anyone it means the government don't have a workable majority which means it's groundhog day.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The opposition due to the constitutional coup conducted on Saturday which allowed the Letwin Bill. I hate to disappoint you but Johnson is gaining supporters every day of this saga

I've no doubt Alexander is gaining supporters. But he's doing what he's been doing since the day he came to prominence. Hoodwinking them and getting them to believe his dis-ingenuity.

The fact is parliament has potentially elongated the process of passing this bill, Boris has threatened to end it all together.

 

[shmmeee]

It will be as people are fed up and won't vote for parties intending on delaying brexit anymore, anyway if he has to make a pact with someone it will be with the brexit party

That’s what Labour and Lib Dems are Hopi for. They (the anti Brexit parties) have support focused on different areas, Labour up north and Libs down south in a nutshell.

The only hope they have is that the Brexit vote, which is spread all between Tory shires where Lib Dem’s are strong and working class communities where Labour are, is split between Tory and BXP and lets through their candidate.

As an example, imagine a seat with these votes in 2017: Lab 6000, Con 8000

Then add in BXP and it might look like:
Lab 5500, Con 5000, BXP 3500. The Brexit vote increases but let’s Labour through as it’s split.

They’d need a pact before a GE and Boris has ruled that out and many Tory voters wouldn’t vote BXP just as many BXP voters won’t vote Tory. The Lib/Lab voters are a lot more well versed in tactical voting.

The other question is turnout, the Brexit vote contains a lot of people who have never voted before and may not turn out for a GE.

I’m expecting a Tory win whenever the GE is, but I’m not expecting BXP to have many seats because they don’t have localised support. I suspect because the country is split 50:50 we’ll end up with a similar split in parliament. SNP are likely to clean up in Scotland and cost the Tories seats for example.

There’s every likelihood that we end up with another hung parliament or near as damn it. That’s why we need a referendum to sort this out. The country is split 50:50

 

[shmmeee]

I've no doubt Alexander is gaining supporters. But he's doing what he's been doing since the day he came to prominence. Hoodwinking them and getting them to believe his dis-ingenuity.

The fact is parliament has potentially elongated the process of passing this bill, Boris has threatened to end it all together.

Point of order: Parliament hasn’t elongated the process, they’ve just not allowed it to be shortened.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Yes then Boris, telling it how it is

As disingenuous as Alexander's Brexit stance, when in the past he's been supportive of the EU and wrote two pieces for his newspaper column - one pro-EU and one anti-EU - and only chose which one to publish after he knew which side Cameron was supporting in the referendum so he could cause the most disruption and advance his own political career.

When are you going to realise Alexander doesn't care one jot about Brexit. He cares about himself. If you guaranteed him an election win as long as he dropped Brexit he'd do it in a heartbeat. Even his own family don't think he's trustworthy and does things solely out of self-interest.

 

[Grendel]

I've no doubt Alexander is gaining supporters. But he's doing what he's been doing since the day he came to prominence. Hoodwinking them and getting them to believe his dis-ingenuity.

The fact is parliament has potentially elongated the process of passing this bill, Boris has threatened to end it all together.

No the opposition have said already they will add amendments which have not been agreed by the 27 other countries so it has in its pure form already been rejected

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Point of order: Parliament hasn’t elongated the process, they’ve just not allowed it to be shortened.

I said potentially elongated it because if the bill is amended it will have to then go back to the EU for agreement, unlike a normal bill which would just pass the house, pass the Lords and become law.

 

[Grendel]

As disingenuous as Alexander's Brexit stance, when in the past he's been supportive of the EU and wrote two pieces for his newspaper column - one pro-EU and one anti-EU - and only chose which one to publish after he knew which side Cameron was supporting in the referendum so he could cause the most disruption and advance his own political career.

When are you going to realise Alexander doesn't care one jot about Brexit. He cares about himself. If you guaranteed him an election win as long as he dropped Brexit he'd do it in a heartbeat. Even his own family don't think he's trustworthy and does things solely out of self-interest.

Same as the anti EU Mr Corbyn then the only difference being I cannot recollect Mr Johnson supporting an organisation that murdered English citizens on their own soil

 

[skybluetony176]

I think there would be more chance of getting this sorted if he accepts the extension and allows a vote on the amendments. I'd imagine most of those proposed would relate to workers rights which he'd have to make concessions on but I don't think the EU would decline.

If the GE isn't the tory landslide that some people think it will be and I suspect it wont be, and the government has a small majority or needs to enter into an arrangement similar to the one it had with the DUP then we're back to square one.

Yeah but that won’t be Boris’ fault. It will be (insert opposition party here)’s fault for fighting an election against Boris in the aim of winning seats to maintain the status quo in parliament as a deliberate attempt to block/delay Brexit. You just don’t get it do you. Anything other than rolling over and having your tummy tickled by Boris makes you an undemocratic, lesbian, lefty, communist, snowflake, climate change hoax buying vegan who will do anything to stop democracy # we know what we voted for.