Yes. I’m dating a Dutch girl.
We can (attempt to) stop ANYONE or ANYTHING crossing our borders at any time we decide fit to do so if we have control of them.Nothing stops them now and they can drive around Europe unchecked. Hence why it is important countries that border a non-EU country have checks in place.
I thought one of the reasons for leaving was to 'take back control'? Or are we conceding that was another lie and we'll actually have less control of our borders?
So now you are choosing to believe a newspaper reporting hearsay.According to the Sunday Times Boris is to tell the queen sack me if you dare. Is this really what we’ve come to? The PM playing chicken with the monarchy? What next? Spin the bottle to decide deal or no deal.
According to the Sunday Times Boris is to tell the queen sack me if you dare. Is this really what we’ve come to? The PM playing chicken with the monarchy? What next? Spin the bottle to decide deal or no deal.
EU rules require a border but we won't be in the EU so from your simplified choices I'd say a hard border requires the EU to put one in place.This really isn’t hard. WTO rules require you to have a border, as do EU rules. That’s the nature of a customs union, it can’t be porous.
We literally have three options:
- Hard Brexit and build a border
- CU Brexit and no borders
- CU Brexit just gotta NI and border in the Irish Sea
We have refused to choose one and instead played silly buggers so no politician has to be the one to break some eggs for this omelette.
It’s a hell of a long way away from the UK holding all of the cards and being able to dictate on terms.Spin the bottle in my youth wasn’t used to decide such trivial matters Tony !!
Look, this all Johnsons pretence to keep the pressure on the EU to do a deal. Otherwise as I’ve said (probably 100 times before) there’s little incentive for the EU, it will always be extend and dictate the length of extension
We never held all the cards but threw away what we had when no deal was taken way by the lily livered softies in parliament.It’s a hell of a long way away from the UK holding all of the cards and being able to dictate on terms.
Just imagine negotiations with world superpowers, the UK is going to get completely dictated to and taken to the cleaners.
We never held all the cards but threw away what we had when no deal was taken way by the lily livered softies in parliament.
What on earth are you blabbering on about ?So what happened to the Germans still wanting to sell us cars and the French still wanting to sell us cheese and wine? Are you suggesting that the leave campaign were lying? Boris even repeated it in the televised debates of the Tory leadership contest.
The apocalypse is less than 4 weeks away. By then end of November we'll all be wasting away living on the scraps we usually feed to the birds and no cheap skilled builders from the east to fix us up a decent place to survive the years of poverty ahead.Blimy, here's me thinking we're also a superpower. Reading all this I get the impression we're about as appealing as Greece and need to go cap in hand to every other place not in the special EU club to get investment and trade.
Begs the question why do so many fuckers want to come and work here. I assume post Haloween everyone will be rocking up into France, Italy or Germany as the UK will be a wasteground.
Oh no!The apocalypse is less than 4 weeks away. By then end of November we'll all be wasting away living on the scraps we usually feed to the birds and no cheap skilled builders from the east to fix us up a decent place to survive the years of poverty ahead.
Put me down for a room.Oh no!
Psssst - don't worry Al, I've got a plan. Some of the lads here live in the EU I'm sure they'll welcome us when we're homeless and desolute. We just need to butter them up a bit.....
I haven't seen the plans but I would guess it would be like every other border in the world. Do you know of a border outside a customs union that has zero border infrastructure?
But lets say we do just leave an open border, or have checks miles away from the border, how have we then 'taken back control'? How are you stopping people and / or goods that shouldn't be crossing the border from doing so? Are you also expecting the EU to not enforce its own regulations regarding borders and just let Ireland remain indefinitely with an open border to a non EU / customs union country?
EU rules require a border but we won't be in the EU so from your simplified choices I'd say a hard border requires the EU to put one in place.
That's fine. Let's get on with it. They can put it up.
What's the problem? Why the delay ?
So does that mean we need to put up a border on the Northern Ireland side (WTO) and the Irish/EU need to put up a border on their side as well , so we get a duplicate or will one border satisfy both the EU and WTO ? Two would be really stupid wouldn't it ? If there is to be one border, which side would it be on ?Really?
WTO requires a border as well. Plus we’ll still need a trade deal of some kind with the E.U. You can’t just have an open border else you’re open to all sorts of illegal activity and you spread that to anyone else you have any kind of free movement of goods with.
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So does that mean we need to put up a border on the Northern Ireland side (WTO) and the Irish/EU need to put up a border on their side as well , so we get a duplicate or will one border satisfy both the EU and WTO ? Two would be really stupid wouldn't it ? If there is to be one border, which side would it be on ?
I’d imagine in reality they’d be some shared use of resources and infrastructure but imagine what the negotiations for that would be like!
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What on earth are you blabbering on about ?
Are you suggesting that I'm suggesting that the leave campaign were lying ?
The threat of no deal has been there for 3 years and got us precisely nowhere. Bark up another tree.We never held all the cards but threw away what we had when no deal was taken way by the lily livered softies in parliament.
Oh really ? How thick I am ? I think you need to get yourself a little sense of humour.I’m not suggesting anything. I asked questions. Hence the question marks.
A no deal threat only works when the deadline is imminent. We have never reached that point. You're barking at the moon.The threat of no deal has been there for 3 years and got us precisely nowhere. Bark up another tree.
Oh really ? How thick I am compared to you.
But of course, like all those with a master's in hindsight, you doubtlessly knew better. Now it's gone we'll never really know will we? Still you must be absolutely delighted now that no deal's been removed. A mighty relief I should think.You did think no deal was a credible threat so you tell me.
But of course, like all those with a master's in hindsight, you doubtlessly knew better. Now it's gone we'll never really know will we? Still you must be absolutely delighted now that no deal's been removed. A mighty relief I should think.
Well done to you then. Of course those in the leave camp are far , far more likely to dole out "shit" than the more educated and reasonable remainers. You have to make allowances for ignorance in this world and it's shameful how unreasonable some people are.Said from the off that our hand was overstated and like others who made the same point got loads of shit for saying so because the French would still want to sell us cheese and wine, the Germans still want to sell us cars, they have more to lose than us and other nonsense along those lines from the leave campaign. No hindsight needed if it was what you were saying all along and I and others were.
Do you genuinely not know what the issue is with putting up a hard border between NI and the Republic?What's the problem? Why the delay ?
You have to make allowances for ignorance in this world and it's shameful how unreasonable some people are.
Do you genuinely not know what the issue is with putting up a hard border between NI and the Republic?
Clearly not. Go ahead and give me your take on it. Do you know exactly what the EU want as regards the Irish border because I don't .Do you genuinely not know what the issue is with putting up a hard border between NI and the Republic?
In terms of border control if we leave with no deal what control will we have under WTO rules that we didn't have as a member of the EU?We can (attempt to) stop ANYONE or ANYTHING crossing our borders at any time we decide fit to do so if we have control of them.
It then becomes a case of what controls do WE wish to have of them, both now & in the future. At the moment many things either have or could be 'negotiated' away
As a member of the EU, what border conrols are you thinking we currently have ?In terms of border control if we leave with no deal what control will we have under WTO rules that we didn't have as a member of the EU?
When most people talk of 'taking back control' I strongly suspect they are referring to people not goods yet that is something we already control. We currently monitor air, sea and tunnel and require everyone to pass through passport control with the exception of those from Ireland where the CTA removes the need for passports.As a member of the EU, what border conrols are you thinking we currently have ?
Super clarity. Excellent postWhen most people talk of 'taking back control' I strongly suspect they are referring to people not goods yet that is something we already control. We currently monitor air, sea and tunnel and require everyone to pass through passport control with the exception of those from Ireland where the CTA removes the need for passports.
Under EU freedom of movement we can refuse entry on security grounds and require people to leave if they do not find employment and / or have the ability to support themselves within three months of arrival. Of course the home office has never enforced that but that is down to our government not the EU.
This is a common pattern our government was also one of only three EU original members, along with Ireland and Sweden, not to implement transitional restrictions when the EU expanded to include several eastern European countries in 2004.
Similarly it was our government, not the EU, who removed exit checks meaning that since 1998 we have no reliable information on who has and hasn't left the country.
And of course it's important to remember that the largest group entering the UK is consistently non-EU migrants. Are membership, or lack thereof, will make no difference to them.
The additional requirements upon leaving will be to control the flow of goods as our border will now be the border to a different trade area. As we all know that means there is either a border between Ireland and Northern Ireland or a border between the Island of Ireland and Great Britain. Both of which have been ruled out as unacceptable to those living and working in Ireland and Northern Ireland. I can't really see any way around that.
Where was this copied from ?When most people talk of 'taking back control' I strongly suspect they are referring to people not goods yet that is something we already control. We currently monitor air, sea and tunnel and require everyone to pass through passport control with the exception of those from Ireland where the CTA removes the need for passports.
Under EU freedom of movement we can refuse entry on security grounds and require people to leave if they do not find employment and / or have the ability to support themselves within three months of arrival. Of course the home office has never enforced that but that is down to our government not the EU.
This is a common pattern our government was also one of only three EU original members, along with Ireland and Sweden, not to implement transitional restrictions when the EU expanded to include several eastern European countries in 2004.
Similarly it was our government, not the EU, who removed exit checks meaning that since 1998 we have no reliable information on who has and hasn't left the country.
And of course it's important to remember that the largest group entering the UK is consistently non-EU migrants. Our membership, or lack thereof, will make no difference to them.
The additional requirements upon leaving will be to control the flow of goods as our border will now be the border to a different trade area. As we all know that means there is either a border between Ireland and Northern Ireland or a border between the Island of Ireland and Great Britain. Both of which have been ruled out as unacceptable to those living and working in Ireland and Northern Ireland. I can't really see any way around that.
Our hand kept getting chopped off.Said from the off that our hand was overstated and like others who made the same point got loads of shit for saying so because the French would still want to sell us cheese and wine, the Germans still want to sell us cars, they have more to lose than us and other nonsense along those lines from the leave campaign. No hindsight needed if it was what you were saying all along and I and others were.
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