The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)

stupot07 · Sep 3, 2019

Astute said:
What we could do with is mass resignations from all parties. Have two parties for a GE. The Tories in some sort of form on one side and everyone else on the other. Brexit or no Brexit. No need for another referendum.

We need this bullshit to stop one way or the other. We can't be constantly kept on hold. People's futures are at stake. Milliins of retirements are coming up. People are trying to decide where to live. Money is being wasted by companies on what to do if we leave without a deal or get a deal. And we don't even know if we will leave for sure.

Just call a date. No more extensions. Everyone get around a table.

We cannot agree a deal, Ireland and the EU are never going to stop the back stop and No Deal will be catastrophic for this country and will in all likelihood leave to the dissolution of the Union. That all all creates uncertainty and impacts on peoples lives and likely to make the country and people poorer.

That leaves only 1 credible option to remove all the uncertainty, and stabilise the economy and that's choose the Deal we currently have with EU and revoke Article 50.

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skybluetony176 · Sep 3, 2019

shmmeee said:
Three options: CU, No Deal, Revoke

Rank them in order of preference. Done.

When a country is so polarised a second preference vote is the only way to get a consensus. There’s even a precedent for this in the U.K. it’s called Northern Ireland.

Grendel · Sep 3, 2019

djr8369 said:
The ref would need to be based on a specific deal or two stages, one to negotiate a new deal and one on wether to accept it. It would also have to be legally binding and properly policed against interference and over spending. These oversights were the issues with the first one.

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It would take longer than the revised date of January for the extension to do

The questions are not the responsibility of government to approve

There will not be a majority in Parliament for it

djr8369 · Sep 3, 2019

Grendel said:
It would take longer than the revised date of January for the extension to do

The questions are not the responsibility of government to approve

There will not be a majority in Parliament for it

Quite probably correct on all three counts but I was only responding to Astutes questions and talking hypothetically.

The issues you raise do highlight just how screwed we are though. Previous actions have only caused more division and ruled out or made impractical any feasible solution.

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Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 3, 2019

Astute said:
So blatantly?

So what if leave won again? Would you accept the result?

If remain won 52% v48% would you be happy if leave argu3d the toss for 3 years or more until there was a 3rd referendum?

Yes. I've said countless times I want a second vote whereby the outcome is legally binding. No Deal vs Remain, no backsies. On the other point, all the evidence shows that Brexit will be shit-there is no disgrace in the country admitting this was one awkward mistake

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 3, 2019

Astute said:
So leaving without a deal isn't a policy?

Would you vote for them? Of course not. And all because of their single policy.

And you wonder why people say you have comprehension problems.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 3, 2019

Grendel said:
Like the Lib Dem’s in reverse

The Lib Dems have a manifesto and weren't created solely for Brexit at the whim of the biggest narcissist in Britain

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 3, 2019

Grendel said:
The point made was can a government trigger an election and they can’t - a no confidence motion is the only way that this can be done

It has - however - been pretty much confirmed Mr Johnson can change the date if it was agreed whenever he liked

Labour can initiate a no confidence vote, it doesn't mean that it would succeed just as the government could not guarantee success with an early election proposal.

You're more full of shit than your pork pie loving mate

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 3, 2019

Grendel said:
It would take longer than the revised date of January for the extension to do

The questions are not the responsibility of government to approve

There will not be a majority in Parliament for it

The Lib Dems, SNP, Plaid and 'Independents' would all back it which would just leave it down to Labour to give up stupid ideas of a GE

Grendel · Sep 3, 2019

shmmeee said:
Three options: CU, No Deal, Revoke

Rank them in order of preference. Done.

Er you can’t do that it’s down to the commission to decide and if there is a split vote of one side which that is you’ll probably have the CU (which has no majority in Parliament) and the no deal highest vote then do it again against the remain option

Grendel · Sep 3, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
The Lib Dems, SNP, Plaid and 'Independents' would all back it which would just leave it down to Labour to give up stupid ideas of a GE

The Lib Dem’s have already said they will not

Grendel · Sep 3, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Labour can initiate a no confidence vote, it doesn't mean that it would succeed just as the government could not guarantee success with an early election proposal.

You're more full of shit than your pork pie loving mate

It is the only way if ensuring an ejection and it’s highly likely Johnson will be forced to calm it as labour are suggesting they will not do so and not support an election

Johnson will not go to Brussels with the extension request so he will try and bring his own government down

Grendel · Sep 3, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
The Lib Dems have a manifesto and weren't created solely for Brexit at the whim of the biggest narcissist in Britain

Really? It’s funny someone on a debate the other day said they’d be supporting them as they liked their policies and when pressed couldn’t name one

chiefdave · Sep 3, 2019

Can someone shut Rees-Mogg up so there can be an actual debate.

Grendel · Sep 3, 2019

chiefdave said:
Can someone shut Rees-Mogg up so there can be an actual debate.

It’s normal procedure to delay

skybluetony176 · Sep 3, 2019

Just reported on C4 news that Boris’ brexit negotiations team won’t put any new proposals on the table because they don’t want to give the EU the chance to reject them. This is playground stuff.

Grendel · Sep 3, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
Just reported on C4 news that Boris’ brexit negotiations team won’t put any new proposals on the table because they don’t want to give the EU the chance to reject them. This is playground stuff.

Yes channel 4 news. Also Emily Thornberry blustered that she wants a general election to stop food banks but not now.

skybluetony176 · Sep 3, 2019

Grendel said:
Yes channel 4 news. Also Emily Thornberry blustered that she wants a general election to stop food banks but not now.

And?

Grendel · Sep 3, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
And?

Well strangely it seems Mr Johnson can not trigger an election can he?

Hilarious that Corbyn having droned on about demanding an election now is hiding under the table

Ian1779 · Sep 3, 2019

Grendel said:
Well strangely it seems Mr Johnson can not trigger an election can he?

Hilarious that Corbyn having droned on about demanding an election now is hiding under the table

No he can’t directly - but he can put it to the house. If they agree won’t that mean he can control the date and then potentially move it?

What happens if some one else is in control?

skybluetony176 · Sep 3, 2019

Grendel said:
Well strangely it seems Mr Johnson can not trigger an election can he?

Hilarious that Corbyn having droned on about demanding an election now is hiding under the table

And?

Still has nothing to do with the school yard negotiation tactics Boris’ team are involved in.

djr8369 · Sep 3, 2019

Brilliant speech by Ken Clarke. To think the Mrs is wasting her time watching Bake Off

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Grendel · Sep 3, 2019

Ian1779 said:
No he can’t directly - but he can put it to the house. If they agree won’t that mean he can control the date and then potentially move it?

What happens if some one else is in control?

He can provide a date. Oddly labour do not even it seems want to consider an election until after October 31 - how very odd.

Johnson could in theory table a no confidence motion in his own government. This could only fail if Corbyn says he has confidence in the government

Grendel · Sep 3, 2019

djr8369 said:
Brilliant speech by Ken Clarke. To think the Mrs is wasting her time watching Bake Off

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Seriously? He’s a wanker up there with Ted Heath - he wanted us in the ERM and the Euro - vile man

skybluetony176 · Sep 3, 2019

Grendel said:
Seriously? He’s a wanker up there with Ted Heath - he wanted us in the ERM and the Euro - vile man

Something he confessed to getting wrong 14 years ago.

Grendel · Sep 3, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
Something he confessed to getting wrong 14 years ago.

And has remained dribbling in the Euro cesspit ever since

skybluetony176 · Sep 3, 2019

Grendel said:
And has remained dribbling in the Euro cesspit ever since

Not sure what that’s even supposed to mean. He called the Euro a failure and admitted he made a mistake by wanting us to join it. 15 years ago.

Grendel · Sep 3, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
Not sure what that’s even supposed to mean. He called the Euro a failure and admitted he made a mistake by wanting us to join it. 15 years ago.

Hindsight is a marvellous thing. Clarke would sell his soul to the devil for the Eu, he is obsessed with the European Union and would have willingly when in power transferred sovereignty to Brussels

Along with Major a truly loathsome individual

Sick Boy · Sep 3, 2019

Grendel said:
Seriously? He’s a wanker up there with Ted Heath - he wanted us in the ERM and the Euro - vile man

Yet you’ve previously confessed to being a big fan of Farage.

djr8369 · Sep 3, 2019

Grendel said:
Hindsight is a marvellous thing. Clarke would sell his soul to the devil for the Eu, he is obsessed with the European Union and would have willingly when in power transferred sovereignty to Brussels

Along with Major a truly loathsome individual

How you can call Ken Clarke a loathsome creature while having any support for the cretins that now inhabit the front bench is beyond me.

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skybluetony176 · Sep 3, 2019

Grendel said:
Hindsight is a marvellous thing. Clarke would sell his soul to the devil for the Eu, he is obsessed with the European Union and would have willingly when in power transferred sovereignty to Brussels

Along with Major a truly loathsome individual

Mmm OK. Of course there’s no mechanism for transferring sovereignty over to Brussels but whatever. Besides, by the time Boris’ is finished and if he’s allowed to have his own way sovereignty will have been so eroded that they’ll be none left to handover. Besides, given how irate you’re getting you don’t want sovereignty anyway.

Sick Boy · Sep 3, 2019

I see that that arrogant tosspot Rees Mogg is now having a rest on the front benches, glad to see he’s treating it all with total respect.

djr8369 · Sep 3, 2019

Sick Boy said:
I see that that arrogant tosspot Rees Mogg is now having a rest on the front benches, glad to see he’s treating it all with total respect.

Been like that for hours. Earlier he was calling others arrogant and lecturing people how important it was the public were represented. How blessed we are to be represented by a hedge fund who lounges on the front bench like he’s on a fucking sun lounger

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skybluetony176 · Sep 3, 2019

Grendel said:
Along with Major a truly loathsome individual

Funny thing is that when compared with what’s followed (especially the current PM) he’s the last PM we had that could even remotely be considered a decent PM. I suspect that history will judge Major far more kindly than it will Boris.

Grendel · Sep 3, 2019

Sick Boy said:
Yet you’ve previously confessed to being a big fan of Farage.

I haven’t

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