The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (12 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Morning lol, just banter.. As you were

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I don’t get it?

 

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[Evo1883]

I don’t get it?

Haha course not, it's just a joke anyway... Cheer up, did you sign the petition... Should go far lol

 

[Grendel]

Yeah, even Grendel put this forward as a compromise before.

Now though due to parliament there is leave at all costs or remain and that is it. It’s now a battle of wills.

I still think the deal will be re presented to parliament in October and that is the choice people will face. Take that deal or we leave

 

[Grendel]

As did Nigel. He’s allowed to change his mind though.

There was a Norway style deal put to parliament in those silly meaningless votes. It was rejected

 

[shmmeee]

I’m not twisting it. It’s a remain paper. They are pinning their hopes on Corbyn (as caretaker) to at least delay Brexit.

Ps It says ‘....since ousting Johnson in time to affect the Brexit process may also require the creation of caretaker government government under Labours Jeremy corbyn’ ie to be able to do something about Brexit everyone might need to accept Corbyn becoming caretaker.

I do take your point that this is rather ironic given that Corbyn is a massive leaver at heart !!!

It’s a liberal economics paper is what it is. Brexit is terrible economics and that’s why they’re against it, but to call for a socialist leader is quite something.

Don’t see what all the fuss is about who would lead it. A GNU would literally only exist to call an election and stop no deal. No actual policy will be implemented as it wouldn’t have the confidence of the house.

 

[shmmeee]

Haha course not, it's just a joke anyway... Cheer up, did you sign the petition... Should go far lol

No seriously. I don’t get it. Who did him where? Who is Amelia?

 

[skybluetony176]

So can I. Interestingly another constitutional expert was on the bbc news last night and guess what? She said the PM will control the date if a no confidence vote results in no government and he can easily make it November

That’s not what your link said, although you thought it did despite it saying in very plain English that if no government can be formed in 14 days an election is automatically called. So again I’m going to dismiss your interpretation of what a constitutional expert said as you’ve demonstrated that you can’t read plain English so it’s unlikely you understood what would have been a complicated conversation, well complicated for someone who can’t read plain English anyway.

 

[skybluetony176]

There was a Norway style deal put to parliament in those silly meaningless votes. It was rejected

Not sure what that’s got to do with Nigel changing his mind. He’s not and never has been an MP.

 

[Evo1883]

No seriously. I don’t get it. Who did him where? Who is Amelia?

Oh dear, let's forget it eh.
Woooosh

 

[Grendel]

That’s not what your link said, although you thought it did despite it saying in very plain English that if no government can be formed in 14 days an election is automatically called. So again I’m going to dismiss your interpretation of what a constitutional expert said as you’ve demonstrated that you can’t read plain English so it’s unlikely you understood what would have been a complicated conversation, well complicated for someone who can’t read plain English anyway.

That makes no sense what are you on about?

 

[Grendel]

Not sure what that’s got to do with Nigel changing his mind. He’s not and never has been an MP.

You say parliament is sovereign and a sovereign parliament who say they want to have more time to debate Brexit believe that the option is not an acceptable one

 

[skybluetony176]

That makes no sense what are you on about?

Thanks for proving my point. Wrote in plain English but yet again you don’t understand what you’re reading.

 

[skybluetony176]

You say parliament is sovereign and a sovereign parliament who say they want to have more time to debate Brexit believe that the option is not an acceptable one

Parliament doesn’t have the numbers to accept any brexit. Are you suggesting we cancel?

It still irrespective of my point that Niggle is allowed to change his mind while no one else is.

 

[Grendel]

Thanks for proving my point. Wrote in plain English but yet again you don’t understand what you’re reading.

No it was illiterate drivel, are you just saying an election is called after 14 days is that the big reveal?

 

[Grendel]

Parliament doesn’t have the numbers to accept any brexit. Are you suggesting we cancel?

It still irrespective of my point that Niggle is allowed to change his mind while no one else is.

Parliament was elected to deliver Brexit - the fact that it cannot and you seem to acknowledge it never will and therefore further “debate” is a charade

 

[skybluetony176]

No it was illiterate drivel, are you just saying an election is called after 14 days is that the big reveal?

It probably was to you. Given that you provided a link that stated an election is automatically called at the end of the 14 day period if no government can be formed as evidence that it isn’t automatically called.

 

[Grendel]

It probably was to you. Given that you provided a link that stated an election is automatically called at the end of the 14 day period if no government can be formed as evidence that it isn’t automatically called.

That’s what i said and what I also said is that the incumbent Prime Minister sets the time table and can make it November

 

[skybluetony176]

Parliament was elected to deliver Brexit - the fact that it cannot and you seem to acknowledge it never will and therefore further “debate” is a charade

Parliament is voted in to do numerous things. All you’re confirming is that the referendum didn’t deliver a mandate for the type of brexit and the ensuing mess was the inevitable consensus of a divisive question asked to be answered in the most divisive of ways.

 

[skybluetony176]

That’s what i said and what I also said is that the incumbent Prime Minister sets the time table and can make it November

A) it wasn’t

B) you keep referring to the fixed term parliament act as if you’ve read it and understood what it says. Does it or does it not say in that act that once an election is called the election is held 25 days later? Remember you also thought that this act also stated that there’s only one way an early election could be called. Which you were also wrong on despite being an eye witness to the other way an election can be called under the act in 2017.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Favouring a Corbyn caretaker government!



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That is just ridiculous & you are every bit as bad as the worst gutter press journo.

You selected a section carefully from an article - then had to go a step further & highlight specific words carefully missing out the key words "may also" which can quite dramatically change interpretation.

Lapped up by the usual kind of suspects though so that is alright.

The things I am hearing are suggesting this move is as equally divisive as Brexit itself, but probably because the remain camp are fearing their chances of thwarting Brexit are slipping away. Whilst those in the Brexit camp appear to be claiming it is doing nothing like that whatsoever. The time & chance will apparently be there still...just need to cut the waffle that goes over & over the same ground out.

A few of us could take a hint on that too lol

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[djr8369]

That is just ridiculous & you are every bit as bad as the worst gutter press journo.

You selected a section carefully from an article - then had to go a step further & highlight specific words carefully missing out the key words "may also" which can quite dramatically change interpretation.

I just lifted the picture from twitter mate, the highlighting was already there. You’ll notice, as you read them, that the words “may also” are still present and so the meaning has not been changed.






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[SkyblueBazza]

I just lifted the picture from twitter mate, the highlighting was already there. You’ll notice, as you read them, that the words “may also” are still present and so the meaning has not been changed.






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Nah, I don't accept that. You are able to link to Twitter & I would be amazed if you hadn't done that before...& could have this time

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[Sick Boy]

Now though due to parliament there is leave at all costs or remain and that is it. It’s now a battle of wills.

I still think the deal will be re presented to parliament in October and that is the choice people will face. Take that deal or we leave

Fully agree, it will be the same deal but repackaged. I wonder how the more hardliners will take it though.

 

[Ian1779]

Nah, I don't accept that. You are able to link to Twitter & I would be amazed if you hadn't done that before...& could have this time

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I’ve seen it on Twitter EXACTLY like that at least a dozen times.

Put down the tin foil hat...

 

[Grendel]

A) it wasn’t

B) you keep referring to the fixed term parliament act as if you’ve read it and understood what it says. Does it or does it not say in that act that once an election is called the election is held 25 days later? Remember you also thought that this act also stated that there’s only one way an early election could be called. Which you were also wrong on despite being an eye witness to the other way an election can be called under the act in 2017.

No it doesn’t as it misses out some crucial legal aspects regarding the calling of the date including parliamentary wash up time and when dissolution via the queen has to be done - which was simplified in the article which stated categorically that the PM has control of the timetable and can make it November - it says that doesn’t it Tony?

There is only one way an election is called.

Due to the above the opposition are avoiding dealing with the issue correctly and therefore are trying to circumvent it as they cannot deliver following sovereign procedure - as they are not going to accept a government that can dictate the election date timetable.

If you really want to get into semantics some observers actually believe even if the opposition parties can try and force the government into implementing policy it can divert this by doing the following

The government declared a no confidence motion in itself on the final day of the no deal Brexit debate and declared an election. In November

The Tory Mps side with the motion

Then the opposition either support the motion or reject it and then by definition are supporting the government. At which point the attempt to force an act against a government the opposition has just declared support for becomes null and void

 

[Astute]

Yes I can see it getting through if it went back to parliament.

If you genuinely believe thay the UK is now in a position to demand better terms will get them, then you're seriously deluded.

Me deluded?

So are you saying that the EU won't want a trade deal with us if we don't accept the dictated terms presently on offer?

And you call me deluded :smuggrin:

 

[Astute]

You'd think that if it was all above board they wouldn't have dropped their appeal.

And you constatly deflect and find excuses for Leave activities while continually going on about the EU and then wonder why you get called out on it. What you're supporting and justifying sets a very dangerous precendent for the future. If it were the EU you'd be going on about it for years.

I deflect nothing. That is your job.

I call out the bullshit from everyone. Not my fault that the bullshit comes mainly from one side.

You even wanted me to call the latest from BJ wrong when I had already been calling it wrong. You only notice what I post when it is against the point you constantly want to put across.

 

[skybluetony176]

No it doesn’t as it misses out some crucial legal aspects regarding the calling of the date including parliamentary wash up time and when dissolution via the queen has to be done - which was simplified in the article which stated categorically that the PM has control of the timetable and can make it November - it says that doesn’t it Tony?

There is only one way an election is called.

Due to the above the opposition are avoiding dealing with the issue correctly and therefore are trying to circumvent it as they cannot deliver following sovereign procedure - as they are not going to accept a government that can dictate the election date timetable.

If you really want to get into semantics some observers actually believe even if the opposition parties can try and force the government into implementing policy it can divert this by doing the following

The government declared a no confidence motion in itself on the final day of the no deal Brexit debate and declared an election. In November

The Tory Mps side with the motion

Then the opposition either support the motion or reject it and then by definition are supporting the government. At which point the attempt to force an act against a government the opposition has just declared support for becomes null and void

The article said automatically called at the end of the 14 days not at the end of the 14 days Boris gets to decide when an election is called. That’s what your link said. The fixed term parliament act states that once an election is called voting takes place 25 days later. Again, this is the legislation you refer to.

You seem to be suggesting that the government can loose a vote of no confidence next month and then hold onto power until May 2022 because the onus is on Boris to set the date. Essentially you’re claiming that we can bump along with no government until the fixed election date which is May 2022.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Fully agree, it will be the same deal but repackaged. I wonder how the more hardliners will take it though.

Exactly. But this is what I was saying yesterday Sick Boy (and for those that genuinely want to avoid No Deal it’s possibly good news). What Johnson has done (if he survives the coming days) is put pressure on people to accept a repackaged WA as they might be left with a clear choice No deal or repackaged WA.

It will be difficult for those politicising it or refusing to agree to a WA still in the hope of revoking, to not support it as the alternative will be No Deal.

People have always talked about the difficulties in the country as everyone wants a different type of Brexit. It’s been the same with MPs, they’ve had all these different choices (and chose none) so haven’t made a decision ! Now is the decision time.

Johnson could possibly quell some of the outrage by saying that he will gladly put forward a revised WA by X October but Bercow said previously that the WA couldn’t be re-presented unless there are substantial changes. Down to you EU

Bit naughty I know but might help !

 

[Grendel]

The article said automatically called at the end of the 14 days not at the end of the 14 days Boris gets to decide when an election is called. That’s what your link said. The fixed term parliament act states that once an election is called voting takes place 25 days later. Again, this is the legislation you refer to.

You seem to be suggesting that the government can loose a vote of no confidence next month and then hold onto power until May 2022 because the onus is on Boris to set the date. Essentially you’re claiming that we can bump along with no government until the fixed election which is May 2022.

Nope not claiming that - I am saying procedural downtime is not considered and every single piece I’ve read confirms a November election easily fits the legislation. I cannot find a single expert that believes the prime minister can not control the date.

Does the article say the prime minister controls the timetable? Does it say it can delay until November?

Well I’ll answer - yes Tony it does because it can

Guess what Tony. That’s why your new chums on the opposition are not calling a no confidence vote as they know it’s true even though you’ll never admit it

 

[djr8369]

Nah, I don't accept that. You are able to link to Twitter & I would be amazed if you hadn't done that before...& could have this time

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Apologies if I’ve missed the strict sourcing policy of this thread.

Anyway here’s a link to a tweet



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[Grendel]

Apologies if I’ve missed the strict sourcing policy of this thread.

Anyway here’s a link to a tweet



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From a pro remain editor - there was a research done somewhere on articles around Brexit and the FT had more pro remain articles than any other paper

All it’s doing is backing a remain mantra - it’s not supporting the Eu hating Jeremy Corbyn - it along with you just fails to see the irony

 

[djr8369]

From a pro remain editor - there was a research done somewhere on articles around Brexit and the FT had more pro remain articles than any other paper

All it’s doing is backing a remain mantra - it’s not supporting the Eu hating Jeremy Corbyn - it along with you just fails to see the irony

“Typical remainer rag”

As discussed at length above, the point is not whether the paper is pro remain or whether there is a certain irony in Corbyn being seen as the saviour. It’s that a major newspaper that in any other circumstance would be pro Tory is now calling out the government and saying a Corbyn led caretaker government is preferable .


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[SkyblueBazza]

Apologies if I’ve missed the strict sourcing policy of this thread.

Anyway here’s a link to a tweet



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Fair enough - I can accept that. No offence intended.

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[djr8369]

Fair enough - I can accept that. No offence intended.

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None taken.


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