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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (18 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,901
skybluetony176 said:
Hard brexit. Which is not the manifesto May was elected on. She was elected on a manifesto of getting a deal. Labour also stood on a manifesto of getting a deal. Did any party actually stand on a manifesto of no deal and win a seat?
Click to expand...

 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,902
djr8369 said:
Why did you laugh when it clearly is?

It’s about time you showed some of your self proclaimed ability to see both sides.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Both sides?

Someone who is ignoring the majority gets pissed off because they are getting ignored themself yet they can't understand why so many people are pissed off.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,903
shmmeee said:
We have a representative democracy. It’s literally impossible for elected representatives to go against the will of the people.

If the will of the people was hard Brexit, May wouldn’t have lost her majority
Click to expand...
What kind of Brexit was voted for? I don't remember seeing hard or soft Brexit. Just yes or no.
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,904
Astute said:
What kind of Brexit was voted for? I don't remember seeing hard or soft Brexit. Just yes or no.
Click to expand...

How many times - the mandate was for a better deal than we have now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: shmmeee

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,905
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Lol G has claimed:

  • There is only 1 way to achieve an early general election
  • The Queen has no ability to stop proroguing of Parliament
  • The Lords and monarch have no scrutiny over legislation from the Commons
  • The Commons represents our democracy but Johnson is right to suspend it so he can force through Brexit
Of course you'll pick him up on these claims.
Click to expand...
1, There are several ways that an early general election can be called. But they all depend on the situation.

2, The queen never gets involved in politics. She needs to be seen as impartial.

3, The Lords would stop Brexit if they could.

4, I don't think BJ should have suspended parliament to be able to push it through. But democracy has gone out the window with Brexit. Look at how many people constantly shout for an undemocratic ending to Brexit but quote democracy when it suits.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,906
Astute said:
What kind of Brexit was voted for? I don't remember seeing hard or soft Brexit. Just yes or no.
Click to expand...

So basically you’re saying that we can leave the EU and join the EEA and leavers won’t moan about it. Let’s do that then.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,907
djr8369 said:
How many times - the mandate was for a better deal than we have now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
How many times? Evidence? You have none. Because it was in or out. Full stop.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,908
Astute said:
1, There are several ways that an early general election can be called. But they all depend on the situation.
Click to expand...

Can you please point that out to Grendull, he’s the one saying otherwise.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,909
Astute said:
What kind of Brexit was voted for? I don't remember seeing hard or soft Brexit. Just yes or no.
Click to expand...

Why are you stuck in 2016?

We had a general election. The country decided who it wants to represent them. That’s more recent, more constitutional and more relevant than the 2016 referendum.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,910
Astute said:
How many times? Evidence? You have none. Because it was in or out. Full stop.
Click to expand...

Neither major party ran on either in or out. Why are you making shit up like google doesn’t index back to 2017?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,911
skybluetony176 said:
I’m only quoting your own evidence. You presented it as fact not me. Did you actually read it past the headline? The devil is in the details and you seem to be lacking an eye for that. Go back and read your own evidence. Twice, at least. Then give it an hour or two to digest, then read again.
Click to expand...

I don’t have to Tony but I will tweet Andrew and say you can confirm he is reading the legislation incorrectly - oh I’ll also tell him he was talking out his arse on the pork pie debate
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,912
djr8369 said:
Precedent is hardly relevant in unprecedented times. He is using one process to run down the clock and deny another.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Yet you back those who are using processes to deny democracy. Then bleat about undemocratic decisions.

And this is the problem that I have. I want to see a democratic decision to be kept to. Because if it doesn't happen we would end up like the EU and push through whatever they want. We could be saved by another referendum. But to have one would also be undemocratic.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,913
Astute said:
How many times? Evidence? You have none. Because it was in or out. Full stop.
Click to expand...

Who campaigning for leave campaigned for a no deal brexit? No one. Who campaigned for leave on the premise that we’ll have our cake and eat it because the Germans will want to sell us cars and the French wine and cheese? Everyone. The PM even said it again last week.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,914
shmmeee said:
Neither major party ran on either in or out. Why are you making shit up like google doesn’t index back to 2017?
Click to expand...
So what was on your ballot paper?

Hard Brexit, soft Brexit, medium Brexit, any old Brexit and remain?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,915
Grendel said:
I don’t have to Tony but I will tweet Andrew and say you can confirm he is reading the legislation incorrectly - oh I’ll also tell him he was talking out his arse on the pork pie debate
Click to expand...

He probably isn’t. You’ve probably just misunderstood what he actually said and are now misrepresenting it. As you have with your BBC link.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,916
Astute said:
So what was on your ballot paper?

Hard Brexit, soft Brexit, medium Brexit, any old Brexit and remain?
Click to expand...

Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, Green, some others I think. You?

If you’re on about the 2016 referendum because apparently historical votes take precedence now? It was about the EU, not the SM, CU, or anything else. Take it up with the ERG who have been blocking that happening.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,917
Ever relevant:

 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and djr8369

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,918
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Lol G has claimed:

  • There is only 1 way to achieve an early general election
  • The Queen has no ability to stop proroguing of Parliament
  • The Lords and monarch have no scrutiny over legislation from the Commons
  • The Commons represents our democracy but Johnson is right to suspend it so he can force through Brexit
Of course you'll pick him up on these claims.
Click to expand...

The notion you want 500 years of sovereignty to be overwritten by the monarchy because you don’t like the government action is hilarious

There is only one way to achieve an election - not my problem Corbyn has no balls to get of his arse and try and force Johnson out is it
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,919
SIR ERNIE said:
Yes it’s hilarious to see the dramatic change in the attitude of the EU leaders.

Six months ago, dealing with the cowering, feeble May, they had the UK exactly where they wanted us.
Pipsqueak politicians like Macron, Varadkar and Tusk knew that they could treat May with contempt and she’d still come back for more.

Now they see us confidently making preparations to leave in a couple of months regardless of them and engaged in talks with Trump and others.
Suddenly they look like the ones on the fringes.
Click to expand...

?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,920
shmmeee said:
Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, Green, some others I think. You?

If you’re on about the 2016 referendum because apparently historical votes take precedence now? It was about the EU, not the SM, CU, or anything else. Take it up with the ERG who have been blocking that happening.
Click to expand...
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,921
Astute said:
View attachment 12929
Click to expand...

Yep. May negotiated that and the ERG voted it down. What’s your point?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,922
Grendel said:
The notion you want 500 years of sovereignty to be overwritten by the monarchy because you don’t like the government action is hilarious

There is only one way to achieve an election - not my problem Corbyn has no balls to get of his arse and try and force Johnson out is it
Click to expand...

It goes beyond not liking it, Johnson is trying to stifle Parliament to force through something we all know will hurt the country. Or do we just allow crap to happen in the name of tradition?

In any case the Queen has allowed it just as she allowed Blair to wage an illegal war
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,923
SIR ERNIE said:
Yes it’s hilarious to see the dramatic change in the attitude of the EU leaders.

Six months ago, dealing with the cowering, feeble May, they had the UK exactly where they wanted us.
Pipsqueak politicians like Macron, Varadkar and Tusk knew that they could treat May with contempt and she’d still come back for more.

Now they see us confidently making preparations to leave in a couple of months regardless of them and engaged in talks with Trump and others.
Suddenly they look like the ones on the fringes.
Click to expand...

I have to know. What news media do you consume to come up with this distorted view of reality?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,924
Astute said:
Yet you back those who are using processes to deny democracy. Then bleat about undemocratic decisions.

And this is the problem that I have. I want to see a democratic decision to be kept to. Because if it doesn't happen we would end up like the EU and push through whatever they want. We could be saved by another referendum. But to have one would also be undemocratic.
Click to expand...

Do you want a decision to be carried out even if all evidence points to it being a mistake?
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,925
Astute said:
Yet you back those who are using processes to deny democracy. Then bleat about undemocratic decisions.

And this is the problem that I have. I want to see a democratic decision to be kept to. Because if it doesn't happen we would end up like the EU and push through whatever they want. We could be saved by another referendum. But to have one would also be undemocratic.
Click to expand...

It’s not denying democracy. It’s denying a twisted interpretation of a tampered referendum.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,926
shmmeee said:
Yep. May negotiated that and the ERG voted it down. What’s your point?
Click to expand...

Lol the ERG haven’t more MPs than labour surely
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,927
Astute said:
Yet you back those who are using processes to deny democracy. Then bleat about undemocratic decisions.

And this is the problem that I have. I want to see a democratic decision to be kept to. Because if it doesn't happen we would end up like the EU and push through whatever they want. We could be saved by another referendum. But to have one would also be undemocratic.
Click to expand...

We. Don’t. Have. Direct. Democracy. In. The. UK. We. Have. Representative. Democracy.

FFS
 
Reactions: djr8369

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,928
djr8369 said:
It’s not denying democracy. It’s denying a twisted interpretation of a tampered referendum.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

A tampered referendum - how childish you sound. Remind me how many MPs were elected in 2017 to deliver the result of that referendum
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,929
Astute said:
So what was on your ballot paper?

Hard Brexit, soft Brexit, medium Brexit, any old Brexit and remain?
Click to expand...

Do you really think this argument has any weight whatsoever?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,930
djr8369 said:
Do you really think this argument has any weight whatsoever?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Well it has more than yours
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,931
Astute said:
How many times? Evidence? You have none. Because it was in or out. Full stop.
Click to expand...

Are you really this malleable?

What do you think the fucking referendum campaign was for? The whole policy detail isn’t on the ballot paper.

The leave campaigners campaigned for a better deal with access to the single market. There is no mandate for no deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,932
Uh oh, Johnson going against the will of the people!! I expect the “democracy” fans in this thread will be calling for his head!

 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,933
Grendel said:
A tampered referendum - how childish you sound. Remind me how many MPs were elected in 2017 to deliver the result of that referendum
Click to expand...

That’s not childish it’s fact.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,934
shmmeee said:
Uh oh, Johnson going against the will of the people!! I expect the “democracy” fans in this thread will be calling for his head!

Click to expand...

G is going to smash his personal best for absurd contradictions today, that’s for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,935
Astute said:
View attachment 12929
Click to expand...

So it doesn’t say vote to leave the CU or single market?
 
Reactions: djr8369
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