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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (5 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,771
Grendel said:
Exactly what? 34% would be a majority which is his point
Click to expand...

Criminal if true. Merkel got around that at the last Bundestag election and people on here were taking that as a disaster and that Merkel had lost. Now, it would be enough to govern the UK when a right wing, or Labour party is polling similar figures. We need PR to respect at least some of the 66%‘s wishes in such cases.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,772
Grendel said:
Exactly what? 34% would be a majority which is his point
Click to expand...

In a general election?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,773
skybluetony176 said:
In a general election?
Click to expand...

Parties have had very comfortable majorities with a 35% of the vote in recent times - the last election was unique as the smaller parties votes collapsed

Labour would have 317 seats with 27% based on the latest polls
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,774
Grendel said:
Parties have had very comfortable majorities with a 35% of the vote in recent times - the last election was unique as the smaller parties votes collapsed

Labour would have 317 seats with 27% based on the latest polls
Click to expand...
35% gave Labour a reasonably comfortable majority in 2005.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,775
Deleted member 5849 said:
35% gave Labour a reasonably comfortable majority in 2005.
Click to expand...

Exactly 356 seats
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,776
Out of interest:

Sonntagsfrage – Umfragen zur Europawahl 2019

How the parties are doing in Germany.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,777
Grendel said:
Exactly 356 seats
Click to expand...
It is, tbf, the failing of FPTP - it also set Labour up for almost inevitable defeat the next election, much as the massive majority in 2001 meant they'd have had to go some to lose in 2005.

But then... we've seen with the current charade, how 'coalition' gives dispraportionate weight to certain views over others too, so not sure PR solves the problem.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,778
Deleted member 5849 said:
It is, tbf, the failing of FPTP - it also set Labour up for almost inevitable defeat the next election, much as the massive majority in 2001 meant they'd have had to go some to lose in 2005.

But then... we've seen with the current charade, how 'coalition' gives dispraportionate weight to certain views over others too, so not sure PR solves the problem.
Click to expand...

It certainly does as it gives options of coalition partners. Germany could have had Lib, Green and CDU/CSU at the general election. The CDU wouldn’t give the FDP what they wanted, so they declined the coalition. CDU/CSU had the Option of SPD or a minority government. They took SPD and SPD voters got at least some parts of the manifesto through. Next time will probably be CDU/CSU and Greens as the Greens are growing throughout Germany. The Greens here are super pro EU. More chance of achieving their climate and environmental aims by working through the EU.

The CDU couldn’t have got their policies through with only around 32% of the vote. With the SPD more than 50% of voters „won“.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,779
martcov said:
It certainly does as it gives options of coalition partners. Germany could have had Lib, Green and CDU/CSU at the general election. The CDU wouldn’t give the FDP what they wanted, so they declined the coalition. CDU/CSU had the Option of SPD or a minority government. They took SPD and SPD voters got at least some parts of the manifesto through. Next time will probably be CDU/CSU and Greens as the Greens are growing throughout Germany. The Greens here are super pro EU. More chance of achieving their climate and environmental aims by working through the EU.

The CDU couldn’t have got their policies through with only around 32% of the vote. With the SPD more than 50% of voters „won“.
Click to expand...
Or 0% won, as nobody got what they voted for.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,780
Ian1779 said:
Yes to have a load of seats in a parliament they don’t want to have any part in....
Click to expand...
Mysoginists, homophobes, empirists, facists, racists you can vote for them all in the brexit party whippey doo
 
Reactions: martcov

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,781
Sky Blue Pete said:
Mysoginists, homophobes, empirists, facists, racists you can vote for them all in the brexit party whippey doo
Click to expand...

You find all those catagories in labour members if you want - some who are in the inner circle
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,782
Deleted member 5849 said:
Or 0% won, as nobody got what they voted for.
Click to expand...

They all got some part of their manifesto through ( governing parties). Much better than 0%. It is not black or white.
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,783
skybluetony176 said:
Heidi Allen Vs Ferage.
Click to expand...
Heidi going out to bat then? Out first ball to a yorker I reckon.
 
Reactions: Grendel

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,784
skybluetony176 said:
50% didn’t vote to leave on a hard brexit. The brexit Party polling at 29-34% only confirms that.
Click to expand...

What percentage of the electorate voted for this city council?
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,785
martcov said:
Really? Any facts to back up your statement?
Click to expand...

When was the last time a government won a majority of the entire electorate?
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,786
skybluetony176 said:
Just found the data that you’re quoting and Labour took 40% of the votes. Where exactly is Dutchman getting his notion that the Brexit Party could form a government.
Click to expand...
I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. I'm merely pointing out it has never been necessary to win a majority of the electorate in order to form a government.
 
Last edited: May 14, 2019

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,787
RegTheDonk said:
Heidi going out to bat then? Out first ball to a yorker I reckon.
Click to expand...

Ferage has declined the opportunity. Seems he wants election on rhetoric not substance.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,788
dutchman said:
I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. I'm merely pointing out it has never been necessary to win a majority of the lectorate in order to form a government.
Click to expand...

You said every election in history. That clearly isn’t the case.
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,789
skybluetony176 said:
You said every election in history. That clearly isn’t the case.
Click to expand...
In which general election was it a requirement to win a majority of the electorate?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,790
skybluetony176 said:
You said every election in history. That clearly isn’t the case.
Click to expand...

It is - no party would ever have to command 50% to win a majority
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,791
dutchman said:
In which general election was it a requirement to win a majority of the electorate?
Click to expand...

Again. That’s not what you said. You claimed what the brexit Party is polling at would have won them every election in history. Clearly not the case.
UK Election Statistics: 1918-2018 - 100 years of elections - Commons Library briefing - UK Parliament
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,792
skybluetony176 said:
Ferage has declined the opportunity. Seems he wants election on rhetoric not substance.
Click to expand...
lol "who is she?"
Bit dissapointing of Ferage that - after his bouts in the EU chamber, that would be light sparring session. I guess when you're the heavyweight, the contender has to prove themselves before getting in the ring.
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,793
skybluetony176 said:
Again. That’s not what you said. You claimed what the brexit Party is polling at would have won them every election in history. Clearly not the case.
Click to expand...

It's neither what I said not what I was suggesting. I was actually refering to the referendum result which remainers claim was not a 'majority' of the electorate.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,794
Grendel said:
It is - no party would ever have to command 50% to win a majority
Click to expand...

I never said they would. I’m disputing that 29-34% of votes would have won you a majority in every election in history. As per Dutchman’s claim. Two examples being 2010 & 17, something you confirmed yourself when you corrected one of my figures. When you look at the link I’ve just posted of electoral history of the last 100 years they aren’t even isolated cases.
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,795
dutchman said:
It's neither what I said not what I was suggesting. I was actually refering to the referendum result which remainers claim was not a 'majority' of the electorate.
Click to expand...
You said and I quote you in full “According to every General Election result in history, it is.” in response to me saying that 29-34% isn’t a majority.

It’s pretty clear what you said.
 

bezzer

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,796
Deleted member 5849 said:
I got a Brexit Party leaflet through the door yesterday - a right pile of guff it was.

But they are the only people to have sent me a leaflet so far.

Out of interest, how did they know my name? Are they allowed to get that from the electoral register, even if I ask to go private on it?
Click to expand...

My son received a leaflet from them yesterday. He's just turned 17 so can't even vote.
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,797
skybluetony176 said:
You said and I quote you in full “According to every General Election result in history, it is.” in response to me saying that 29-34% isn’t a majority.

It’s pretty clear what you said.
Click to expand...
And again my point was that it has never been necessary to win a majority of the electorate in order to form a government.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,798
skybluetony176 said:
I never said they would. I’m disputing that 29-34% of votes would have won you a majority in every election in history. As per Dutchman’s claim. Two examples being 2010 & 17, something you confirmed yourself when you corrected one of my figures. When you look at the link I’ve just posted of electoral history of the last 100 years they aren’t even isolated cases.
Click to expand...

You can’t count 100 years - the party make up now only started to happen in the 70’s
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,799
dutchman said:
And again my point was that it has never been necessary to win a majority of the electorate in order to form a government.
Click to expand...

That’s your point now, it isn’t what you said initially. You’re changing your tune which is fine but don’t pretend that you didn’t say what you clearly said. Again “According to every General Election result in history, it is.”
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,800
skybluetony176 said:
That’s your point now, it isn’t what you said initially. You’re changing your tune which is fine but don’t pretend that you didn’t say what you clearly said. Again “According to every General Election result in history, it is.”
Click to expand...
I'm not changing anything, there has never been a general election where it was necessary to win a majority of the electorate.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,801
skybluetony176 said:
That’s your point now, it isn’t what you said initially. You’re changing your tune which is fine but don’t pretend that you didn’t say what you clearly said. Again “According to every General Election result in history, it is.”
Click to expand...

In modern times there’s hardly been any occasions where the leading party in the polls hasn’t been then the official government

If this was a general election the split of votes would make the leading party the winner in the commons by some distance as the voting is suggesting all parties will have very split votes
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,802
Sky Blue Pete said:
Mysoginists, homophobes, empirists, facists, racists you can vote for them all in the brexit party whippey doo
Click to expand...
Of course..... but this does not get exposed because the only noise is 'affront to democracy'
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,803
Grendel said:
You can’t count 100 years - the party make up now only started to happen in the 70’s
Click to expand...

There’s not a single election from 1970 until now (13 GE’s in total) where 34% would have won you an election. The nearest would have been 2005 but he still would have needed at least another 1.2% and for his vote not to be concentrated to avoid a situation like 1974 where the Tories had the largest share of the votes but labour won the most seats.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,804
skybluetony176 said:
There’s not a single election from 1970 until now (13 GE’s in total) where 34% would have won you an election. The nearest would have been 2005 but he still would have needed at least another 1.2% and for his vote not to be concentrated to avoid a situation like 1974 where the Tories had the largest share of the votes but labour won the most seats.
Click to expand...

Labour would have with 34% and the point still stands the party with that vote would be the government - given you seemed confused about this election being first past the post then it’s a bit rich to try and point score
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2019
  • #35,805
dutchman said:
I'm not changing anything, there has never been a general election where it was necessary to win a majority of the electorate.
Click to expand...

Again again. That’s not what you said. You said “According to every General Election result in history, it is.” it wouldn’t have won him any of the last 13 for starters.
 
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