Non AMP
Sky Blues Talk
  • Home
  • Forums
  • Coventry City Football Club
  • Coventry City General Chat
This is a mobile optimized page that loads fast, if you want to load the real page, click this text.

Starting XI Now (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter johnwillomagic
  • Start date Jul 10, 2015
Forums New posts
Prev
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Next
First Prev 2 of 3 Next Last

LJC_CCFC

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2015
  • #36
dongonzalos said:
The gane is full of opinions. However I am glad TM doesn't agree with yours.
He knows quality when he sees it. He has already singled out Fleck as a top player at this level.
Click to expand...

I was being sarcastic...
 

slyblue57

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2015
  • #37
Well there used to be a song of " i wish we had a team of Gary Breens " well i d be happy with a team of Johnny flecks, maybe not in goal tho lol.
free of, do nt pass the half way line i look for goals from him this coming season !!!
pusb
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2015
  • #38
dongonzalos said:
The gane is full of opinions. However I am glad TM doesn't agree with yours.
He knows quality when he sees it. He has already singled out Fleck as a top player at this level.
Click to expand...

I don't think Fleck will be an automatic choice this season - thank God
 

slyblue57

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2015
  • #39
Grendel said:
I don't think Fleck will be an automatic choice this season - thank God
Click to expand...

Grendel, i ll have a beer in the casino with you anytime re Fleck, bar injury,suspension or being sold he play every game he s available.
 

skybluegod

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2015
  • #40
Think that's bing overly nice to baker... Yes he has had some very good seasons in league one, but he has yet to prove himself in the championship, so I wouldn't say he's a different class...
land before I get shot down, no I'm not slagging off baker, as I am a massive fan of his, and even in the championship I still liked him... But he has yet to prove himself
 

skybluegod

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2015
  • #41
Grendel said:
I don't think Fleck will be an automatic choice this season - thank God
Click to expand...

Think you are wrong, TM speaks highly of him in his interviews and seems to suggest that he is part of the key spine of players here.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2015
  • #42
slyblue57 said:
Grendel, i ll have a beer in the casino with you anytime re Fleck, bar injury,suspension or being sold he play every game he s available.
Click to expand...

You're probably right, he seems to be undroppable, even when he's been poor. That's why we need to sign at least one more centre midfielder, he's had it far too easy without any serious competition for places over the last 2 season.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 

slyblue57

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2015
  • #43
Stupot07 i shall add you to buying me a drink when he proves to be our best player yet again lol. Casino before games no problem. I think we argued re Fleck before lol.
pusb
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2015
  • #44
slyblue57 said:
Stupot07 i shall add you to buying me a drink when he proves to be our best player yet again lol. Casino before games no problem. I think we argued re Fleck before lol.
pusb
Click to expand...

Our best player yet again? In which season has been our best player?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #45
Fleck has had his chance, he's crap.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #46
CCFC said:
Fleck has had his chance, he's crap.
Click to expand...

And yet TM believes he is one the best players in the division. (In today's telegraph) Now let's see... who should I trust on this? A bloke on a forum or an experienced manager who watches him train every day? Hmm... tough call.
 

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #47
It's funny isn't it?

Everyone wanted mowbray but once hired he is a dumb shit who don't know what's best for ccfc.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #48
covcity4life said:
It's funny isn't it?

Everyone wanted mowbray but once hired he is a dumb shit who don't know what's best for ccfc.
Click to expand...

Samo said:
And yet TM believes he is one the best players in the division. (In today's telegraph) Now let's see... who should I trust on this? A bloke on a forum or an experienced manager who watches him train every day? Hmm... tough call.
Click to expand...

Funny how it is/was acceptable to slate Burge despite TM seeing him as number 1, stokes despite TM signing him, and Proschwitz when he was mowbrays number 1 striking target, yet we're not allowed to criticise Fleck.....

Flecks been here 3 years and I'm still yet to see what the fuss is about, he's the Scottish Stephen Hughes.

Let's see what happens if he starts to play Conor Thomas, after all he sees him every training every day.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 
Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
A

armybike

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #49
covcity4life said:
It's funny isn't it?

Everyone wanted mowbray but once hired he is a dumb shit who don't know what's best for ccfc.
Click to expand...

Mowbray Out!
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #50
stupot07 said:
Funny how it is/was acceptable to slate Burge despite TM seeing him as number 1, stokes despite TM signing him, and Proschwitz when he was mowbrays number 1 striking target, yet we're not allowed to criticise Fleck.....
Click to expand...

I've never slated any of those players. With all due respect I trust TM's opinion over yours. And to be fair to Fleck, he spent a lot of that time shackled by SP's restrictions.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #51
Samo said:
I've never slated any of those players. With all due respect I trust TM's opinion over yours. And to be fair to Fleck, he spent a lot of that time shackled by SP's restrictions.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know you haven't slated them, but others have. I do trust TM, but having watched Fleck for 3 years, I just don't see what all the fuss is about, to me he's our most overrated player. It's up to TM to get the most out of him to prove me (and others) wrong. I hope he does, because that benefits our football club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #52
stupot07 said:
Yeah, I know you haven't slated them, but others have. I do trust TM, but having watched Fleck for 3 years, I just don't see what all the fuss is about, to me he's our most overrated player. It's up to TM to get the most out of him to prove me (and others) wrong. I hope he does, because that benefits our football club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

If TM fails to make him a player I will concede that you were right all along.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #53
Grendel said:
I don't think Fleck will be an automatic choice this season - thank God
Click to expand...

Pretty sure he will be, beside Vincelot
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #54
Grendel said:
I don't think Fleck will be an automatic choice this season - thank God
Click to expand...

It is actually clear he is to the forefront of Mowbrey's thinking. One player that has impressed him with his ability since his arrival.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #55
dongonzalos said:
Pretty sure he will be, beside Vincelot
Click to expand...

Well unless he substantially improves on his woeful form over the past three seasons then we could be in trouble.

I suspect once the season starts things will change.
 

LJC_CCFC

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #56
Hey there Fleck haters, who would you rather have playing in the LDM role?
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #57
LJC_CCFC said:
Hey there Fleck haters, who would you rather have playing in the LDM role?
Click to expand...

Personally i don't want us to play 2 DM's, you don't need to in this league.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #58
There is just something about Fleck... I always think there is a player trying to get out. I know there is only so long we can wait but I'm hoping TM will give him the freedom and confidence to finally show what he can do. Playing in a winning side might help, that's something he's not been provided with before. My prediction if we are a top 6 side; 6/7 goals from him.
 

LJC_CCFC

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #59
stupot07 said:
Personally i don't want us to play 2 DM's, you don't need to in this league.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

Oh really? Why is that then?
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #60
LJC_CCFC said:
Oh really? Why is that then?
Click to expand...

Because it's a poor league, with technically poor players and 2 DCM's are usually associated with 4231 and a lone striker. Defenders are shite in this league, you put them under pressure and they will make mistakes, so 2 up top is preferable. 4231 worked under robins because we had a striker who was far too good for this league (mcgoldrick) and a midfielder who scored us 15 goals a season (baker) even then 4231 didn't protect us defensively and we were never quite good enough to get into the top 6. Even then one of Jennings or Bailey would make late runs into the box.

If we're going to play 4231 with RV and fleck than the '31' need a complete overhaul.

Sometimes we try to make football far too complicated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #61
LJC_CCFC said:
Oh really? Why is that then?
Click to expand...

I think today it was more about the lack of strikers at the club. The team in each half was set up,to play the same system.

There might be some games were TM might want to play one up top especially away from home.

but once we get his three strikers through the door you will see a different formation.

vincelot is a box to box player, not necessarily a sit deep defensive player.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #62
LJC_CCFC said:
Hey there Fleck haters, who would you rather have playing in the LDM role?
Click to expand...

No one hates him.

He does give 100% and despite being against his natural game tries to provide defensive cover when required.

I'm just not seeing any real strengths. He doesn't drive forwards from midfield often, has a poor pass ratio and scores no goals.

The notion he is "quality" is nonsense. If he was he would have been signed by a higher club when his contract expired.
 

WONDERLAMPS

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #63
stupot07 said:
Defenders are shite in this league, you put them under pressure and they will make mistakes,



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

That's why you play the two DMs to protect them.
 

LJC_CCFC

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #64
stupot07 said:
Because it's a poor league, with technically poor players and 2 DCM's are usually associated with 4231 and a lone striker. Defenders are shite in this league, you put them under pressure and they will make mistakes, so 2 up top is preferable. 4231 worked under robins because we had a striker who was far too good for this league (mcgoldrick) and a midfielder who scored us 15 goals a season (baker) even then 4231 didn't protect us defensively and we were never quite good enough to get into the top 6. Even then one of Jennings or Bailey would make late runs into the box.

If we're going to play 4231 with RV and fleck than the '31' need a complete overhaul.

Sometimes we try to make football far too complicated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

There are certain parallels that you can draw between what Mowbray is trying to do and the brief Robins era. However that doesn't mean you can wholly compare the two. To say: "Defenders are shite in this league" is a sweeping generalisation and not true. The league is of an average standard, but again this isn't a reason to not play 4-2-3-1 or overtly favour another formation.

MK Dons have an
unbelievable win rate in this league, having consistently played 4-2-3-1 with squads and players of differing quality in their time in this division. Bristol City played 3-5-2 last season and had similar success, so there isn't a correct way to play - this goes for every other division.

Under Robins it worked well because we were able to keep possession and dominate games, McGoldrick was only here for three or so months and although his influence was great - as was Baker's - you simply can't say that the period of success we had was solely due to them. A defensive pairing of Edge and Wood, both of whom were left footed - therefore naturally unbalanced - and struggled in possession, didn't help what we were trying to do defensively. Ricketts and Reda should be a defensively stronger pairing.

The football TM wants to play is naturally suited to 4-2-3-1. It offers that extra defensive cover - if implemented correctly - whilst at the same time being flexible throughout the game. The number ten can drop and become a three to help control possession or push up and support the frontman by becoming a two. It's a system that has a solid success rate for teams in the modern era.

You constantly bang on about needing strikers and the fact that Maddison won't play many games, then say we should play two up front. We did that a lot last year and it didn't work. The fact is Maddison was the most naturally gifted player on the pitch today, he then said after the game: "Today I played on the left of a three, me and the Trialist interchanged so I found myself in the number ten role regularly. That's the position I most like to get in, between their midfield and defence on the turn. "I've only ever known Steven Pressley so this is my first time in a first team envioronment with a new manager. It's different and I'm enjoying it, the manager is trying to drill his philosophy into us and how he wants to play. I like the way he sees the game, it's an attacking way and it's how I enjoy playing."

[FONT=Ubuntu, Arial, sans-serif]He wants to be the number ten and TM clearly rates him, so he'll play a lot more than people are suggesting. With the addition of wingers and forwards, we should have a competitive attack. The defensive unit is complete and 4-2-3-1 fits the squad and TM's philosophy. It isn't overcomplicating football, it's allowing us to have a better level of control over games.

[/FONT]Trust in TM tbh.


 
Last edited: Jul 11, 2015

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #65
Grendel said:
No one hates him.

He does give 100% and despite being against his natural game tries to provide defensive cover when required.

I'm just not seeing any real strengths. He doesn't drive forwards from midfield often, has a poor pass ratio and scores no goals.

The notion he is "quality" is nonsense. If he was he would have been signed by a higher club when his contract expired.
Click to expand...

I appreciate what you are saying in the first two paragraphs, but hopefully a change in the system and being hopefully alongside better players will free things up a bit. I think he can pick a pass but often the players around him are too static and don't give many creative options (Gary McAllister often had the same problem at City and had to go deeper and deeper to try and be creative).

it certainly seems Mowbrey feels he is one of the existing components he can utilise. I think this is Flecks level though.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #66
LJC_CCFC said:
There are certain parallels that you can draw between what Mowbray is trying to do and the brief Robins era. However that doesn't mean you can wholly compare the two. To say: "Defenders are shite in this league" is a sweeping generalisation and not true. The league is of an average standard, but again this isn't a reason to not play 4-2-3-1 or overtly favour another formation.

MK Dons have an
unbelievable win rate in this league, having consistently played 4-2-3-1 with squads and players of differing quality in their time in this division. Bristol City played 3-5-2 last season and had similar success, so there isn't a correct way to play - this goes for every other division.

Under Robins it worked well because we were able to keep possession and dominate games, McGoldrick was only here for three or so months and although his influence was great - as was Baker's - you simply can't say that the period of success we had was solely due to them. A defensive pairing of Edge and Wood, both of whom were left footed - therefore naturally unbalanced - and struggled in possession, didn't help what we were trying to do defensively. Ricketts and Reda should be a defensively stronger pairing.

The football TM wants to play is naturally suited to 4-2-3-1. It offers that extra defensive cover - if implemented correctly - whilst at the same time being flexible throughout the game. The number ten can drop and become a three to help control possession or push up and support the frontman by becoming a two. It's a system that has a solid success rate for teams in the modern era.

You constantly bang on about needing strikers and the fact that Maddison won't play many games, then say we should play two up front. We did that a lot last year and it didn't work. The fact is Maddison was the most naturally gifted player on the pitch today, he then said after the game: "Today I played on the left of a three, me and the Trialist interchanged so I found myself in the number ten role regularly. That's the position I most like to get in, between their midfield and defence on the turn. "I've only ever known Steven Pressley so this is my first time in a first team envioronment with a new manager. It's different and I'm enjoying it, the manager is trying to drill his philosophy into us and how he wants to play. I like the way he sees the game, it's an attacking way and it's how I enjoy playing."

[FONT=Ubuntu, Arial, sans-serif]He wants to be the number ten and TM clearly rates him, so he'll play a lot more than people are suggesting. With the addition of wingers and forwards, we should have a competitive attack. The defensive unit is complete and 4-2-3-1 fits the squad and TM's philosophy. It isn't overcomplicating football, it's allowing us to have a better level of control over games.

[/FONT]Trust in TM tbh.


Click to expand...

I really wish I knew as much about football as you.

You belittle me for saying we need to bring in strikers yet this is exactly what TM has said - http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...ws/coventry-city-switch-fresh-striker-9575134

And I rate Maddison, he is the most talented player in our squad, and I have never said he won't play many games, I said I don't expect him to play 90 mins week in week out as TM manages his development. In fact I was talking to Samo about him early this week and said:

stupot07 said:
He is a luxury, doesn't quite fit into any box, but he has some ability, you're in for a treat when you get to see him play. Not quick, but quick feet, low centre of gravity, loves the ball in tight spaces, and can spot a pass.
Click to expand...

So I don't see this big issue you have about my view of Maddison, that you've wasted 3/4rds of your post on.

As you know so much about football, how many of the 9 promoted teams in the last 3 years played with a lone striker? I can only think of MK Dons.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 
Last edited: Jul 11, 2015

LJC_CCFC

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #67
stupot07 said:
I really wish I knew as much about football as you.

You belittle me for saying we need to bring in strikers yet this is exactly what TM has said - http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...ws/coventry-city-switch-fresh-striker-9575134

And I rate Maddison, he is the most talented player in our squad, and I have never said he won't play many games, I said I don't expect him to play 90 mins week in week out as TM manages his development.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

I didn't 'belittle' you. Obviously we need strikers/attacking players. My point was that you go on about our lack of forward players, but you would rather play a system with two strikers. We are more likely to get one decent/competent striker than two, unless we start spending significant money. So why not play a system that only requires one striker, which would make even more sense as we have a number ten in Maddison.

Granted Maddison won't play 90 every week, others have said they don't expect much from him perhaps not yourself.

I don't come on here and say 'you're wrong, I'm right'. Just offer my opinion. Agree, disagree, debate, whatever.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #68
LJC_CCFC said:
I didn't 'belittle' you. Obviously we need strikers/attacking players. My point was that you go on about our lack of forward players, but you would rather play a system with two strikers. We are more likely to get one decent/competent striker than two, unless we start spending significant money. So why not play a system that only requires one striker, which would make even more sense as we have a number ten in Maddison.

Granted Maddison won't play 90 every week, others have said they don't expect much from him perhaps not yourself.

I don't come on here and say 'you're wrong, I'm right'. Just offer my opinion. Agree, disagree, debate, whatever.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, I've obviously misread your post, so I apologise.

I'd play Maddison number 10, but the other 3 need replacing, you cant play it with 2 wide players that all want to play infront of the back 4 and a striker who wants to play with his back to goal. We need players that are going to make runs in behind, and get in the box otherwise we'll struggle to score. And I know he will recruit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 
J

johnwillomagic

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #69
I think one up top in league one is ludicros most succesfully promoted teams played two up top.
One up top when you're in the premier league or top european competition then yes but not league one
the midfields and defences qualities both on and off the ball do not justify it!

That being said our squad at this moment in time is not blessed with striking options.....so currently
I would play a midfield diamond 4 with Madison just off of Tudguy a 4-4-1-1 if you will.

Mowbray normally prefers two up top and width though which is why I think we will get a few more attacking additions in next few weeks.

I know it is only first pre-season game but I am slightly disappointed we did not put Nuneaton away.....but I'll get over it!
 

LJC_CCFC

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #70
stupot07 said:
Fair enough, I've obviously misread your post, so I apologise.

I'd play Maddison number 10, but the other 3 need replacing, you cant play it with 2 wide players that all want to play infront of the back 4 and a striker who wants to play with his back to goal. We need players that are going to make runs in behind, and get in the box otherwise we'll struggle to score. And I know he will recruit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

No worries, and yeah as TM stated the other day we need pace etc. I do have reservations about Jim's place in the team, in terms of creativity. Tuddy should only ever be an impact sub. So ideally you'd want two pacy wingers and two forwards.
 
Prev
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Next
First Prev 2 of 3 Next Last
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Share:
Facebook Twitter Reddit Pinterest Tumblr WhatsApp Email
  • Home
  • Forums
  • Coventry City Football Club
  • Coventry City General Chat
  • Default Style
  • Contact us
  • Terms and rules
  • Privacy policy
  • Help
  • Home
Community platform by XenForo® © 2010-2021 XenForo Ltd.
Menu
Log in

Register

  • Home
  • Forums
    • New posts
    • Search forums
  • What's new
    • New posts
    • Latest activity
  • Members
    • Current visitors
  • Donate to the Season Ticket Fund
X

Privacy & Transparency

We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:

  • Personalized ads and content
  • Content measurement and audience insights

Do you accept cookies and these technologies?

X

Privacy & Transparency

We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:

  • Personalized ads and content
  • Content measurement and audience insights

Do you accept cookies and these technologies?