Discussion in 'Wasps' started by oucho, Dec 25, 2017.
I signed it and I m definitely not a Wasps Fan.
Hang your heads in shame. Regardless of how many wasps fan signed it, it was wrong for them to move. Quit with the desperate attempts at justifying it.
I would be amazed due to the sheer hate of what Wasps did shown on here if a lot of people did not sign it. If they didn’t then they come on here morning that our fans didn’t do anything against the move. How the bloody hell can they justify not even signing a petition against it.
How many fans signed our petition?
Again why if you are not bothered do you put far more passion into posts related to this than you ever do on s ccfc related thread?
I hope to God your name was on that petition Zack? Otherwise you can be the first to hang your head in shame. Not that you will admit it if it wasn’t !!!
He’s not bothered about wasps.
Why are you posting - you are not bothered about wasps.
Are coming back to me with the figures of how I post more on Wasps related threads than CCFC ones.
You should do a bit of research you may find your facts are a bit off again
You are not bothered - why are you posting?
Oh you make a few one liners on match day threads feigning interest but nothing like the volume of words and content on this subject,
Which is odd as you are not interested.
How many fans signed our petition?
You’re right it was wrong for them to move. People could leave it there and no more would be said but unfortunately you have a selection of people who want to pretend that their fan base made a massive protest, or want to pretend that what Wasps purchased in Coventry was available in London. They’re detracting from their own argument. In fact I doubt that they’d be an argument if they just stuck to the facts. The fact is it was morally wrong. You don’t need the BS to prove that, it’s a very basic observation.
Why have you protested about Wasps predicament more than you have CCFC’s?
You do nothing but slate any protest we’ve done and done nothing but slate anybody and any group organising it. If you were as passionate about our predicament as you are Wasps we’d all be following you into battle. Instead you’ve been a Chamberlain type, a poor mans Chamberlain at best.
Which petition specifically are you talking about?
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Said the other day in another thread, try reading back. As for Wasps, I don't think they can be got rid of (in a way that benefits CCFC), do you see a way?
Tbf tony. Grendal has only quoted the petition as Italia and others are trying to prove it was right for them to move as crowds have increased and they went with little protest.
The move was wrong. Period. And will do more harm the the city in the long run as it is permanent and hopefully sisu will fuck off eventually.
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And detracted the fact that it was wrong in the first place by trying to oversell what the petition reflects. The only place that petition got promoted was on here and other outlets CCFC supporters platforms on places like Facebook. I’m not sure who he’s trying to kid that half their fan base protested but the truth is very different. I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of signatures on the petition are CCFC fans who don’t give a flying one about Wasps. Yet someone wants to sell it as half their fan base signed a petition. It’s bollocks. You know it, I know it, he knows it and so does everyone else whether they want to admit it or not. 1 petition signed by a load of football fans and a walkout that never happened. Trying to sell that as some amazing protest is bad enough but when you add into it that the person trying to sell it has done nothing but speak out, put down, slag off, bullshit and laugh at our own fan base and our protests organised by our own kind in an effort to preserve and protect our club then it makes it even more laughable. The bloke is a c**t and a gift to SISU. If we were all like him our protest would have been even more impotent than wasps fans.
The wasps move in my opinion was immoral. You don’t have to BS about it to come to that conclusion. It detracts from the truth to do so and I swear it’s only done half the time to encourage people to point out it’s incorrect so they can provide themselves with the opportunity to slag off our own fans. It inevitably leads to a snipe about the trust or JHW or whoever sees sisu for what they are and is willing to say it.
Why don't you tell Italia its immoral when he's bigging wasps up?
Yes the petition is about as skewed as saying 20k cov fans want sisu out based on the CT petition.
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My stance is and always has been that everyone should boycott wasps on the basis of it being immoral to move to Coventry. My stance is in line with my stance on the Sixfields move. I’ve had no juxtaposed of position, no new found sense of mortality. I’ve been constant and unwavering. Italia is aware of this I’m sure. I’ve repeatedly said I don’t agree with him attending for the same basic principle that both are/we’re immoral.
I’m sure that the CT petition was skewed by our fan base promoting it amongst other forums etc but I doubt it was skewed as much as the Wasps one and actually it says a lot about the mentality of our fans that we actually went out and promoted it and wasps fans that they didn’t theirs. We probably promoted the wasps petition more than them. As I said it was on here and lots on here signed it, it was all over CCFC fan pages on Facebook, I shared it on Facebook and encouraged others to sign it and share, I know of others who did the same yet it barely got 3000 signatories and IIRC only really got going when we (CCFC fans) picked up on it. Then you get their walkout that never happened and compare that to our mass boycott of Sixfields (much more than half our fan base even when comparing it to this seasons attendances), the protest marches (pretty much 100% of our fan base when compared to current attendances), at game protests that actually happened whether that be holding placards up at certain times or some of the more destructive ones. Wasps came to Coventry with barely a whimper from their fans yet some want to dress it up as half their fan base. It’s BS. It’s also unnecessary BS.
Don't forget CCC as well for creating the City of Rugby'
Are you Donald Trump?
The Telegraph petition for SISU to sell up has something over 20,000, which according to you means that 270% of CCFC fans signed it. What kind of a ”fact” is that?
Just like us at Wembley, when Wasps played big matches at Twickenham etc., didn’t they get tens of thousands of “supporters”? Given the natural tendency of petitions to get inflated, factor in the people from Coventry signing, and a generous guess would be under 10% of the Wasps community clicked online to register their disapproval. And since most of their ST supporters were (naturally enough) known to be from around Wycombe, the number of fans from the enormous city of London who clicked the button was likely in the low to mid hundreds. Then they all passionately followed it up by doing … precisely nothing. We can’t know exactly, but as rebellions go I’m sorry it really ain’t impressive and it doesn’t fire me up with moral outrage or strike up comparisons with MK Dons.
I’d agree that any amount of upset people is too many, but their protest was more like a silence, counterbalanced at least as much by the positive noises a lot of them made about moving, and the enjoyment it is now bringing. Saying that kind of makes me want to hate them too for their strange sense of identity, but it isn’t my place to tell them how they should be.
How many of those 20,000 were from other fans? The 43,000 that turned up at Wembley weren’t fans then?
In the end how many people who supported wasps or resided in the Wycombe area could assess and judge our fans reaction to moving to sixfields?
You’re right, people down south couldn’t really judge the effects of Sixfields – except by watching the unrelenting fury and resistance of our fans, which would have left them in no doubt. Equally, the best way I could judge the effects of their move to Coventry was through their reaction, which was barely visible and hardly seemed to last 5 minutes.
The 43,000 at Wembley was a brilliant day, and everyone was 100% behind the Sky Blues, but we all know we don’t have 43,000 committed fans. I’d say we have a hard core of less than 10,000 now, with probably another 25,000 who could be called Coventry City supporters to some degree or other. With 20,000 signing the Telegraph petition, there must be a lot of inflation through getting friends & family to sign etc., so let’s halve it for the sake of argument. All guesswork of course, but my conclusion is that only a small proportion of CCFC supporters bothered to sign the petition for SISU to sell up, which is no real surprise given the pointlessness of it. Whatever way you look at it, it’s not an impossible 270% of them, as your method would suggest.
It’s all so bloody tiresome. At the end of the day, you are morally outraged by the Wasps move, which you are entitled to be. I’m only a fraction as angry because of the pitiful lack of protest, and I can’t really knock people watching top-class sport in the city. I also place most of the blame in a different quarter. Either way, nothing we say makes a blind bit of difference.
Again, you are judging your thoughts on what other people think and your view based on other people's reactions.
Surely when you mention morals they are individual, I think it's morally wrong for a man to hit a woman. It doesn't change if the woman herself accepts it or if she goes to the police to report it.
It’s a fair point well made Nick, and I’m not going to argue
But thankfully we’re not talking domestic violence here are we?
No and it was a bit of a crude example apologies, but it was just pointing out that surely when people say about morals and views they are judged by people themselves rather than looking to others to be told how to think and if they should be angry or not.
A great example was that guy who was fuming about the wasps move, a couple of press releases later and he is a fan.
So, while we have people getting their morals and principles on what others think it's a piece of piss to change their morals and principles.
It can get complicated though Nick. As an example, I think the Wimbledon move to MK was the most disgraceful thing in all my decades of following football, and I’m glad the Football League have taken steps to make sure it can’t happen again. I can’t think of a single Football League club that could possibly be moved more than a few miles and still retain its identity.
But I’m amazed that people still advocate boycotting MK – I mean, like it or not that team belongs to Milton Keynes now, they have families going along and who can blame them? Would it really be fair to treat them like outcasts forever, with the visiting fans enclosure forever empty? Or to say they shouldn’t go and watch their team, and they will always be in the wrong? For me, that’s an example of where a totally inflexible moral code can do more harm than good.
So why was Wimbledon moving a disgrace and not Wasps? If Wasps fans had kicked off massively and Wimbledon weren't bothered would you have thought otherwise? If when Wasps moved the local media, fans groups etc all went ape shit would you have had different thoughts?
I don't know many who do push a boycott against them amongst CCFC fans, so much so it was our designated away day to show disgust at being moved to Northampton.
If Wasps fans are not really bothered don't you think that might be because it was the right decision for Wasps ?
Are you really fighting a moral battle here or in reality are you 'rightly' upset that they have nicked our stadium ?
Like I said, I'm not the one who brings morals and principles into things much and when I do they are consistent, my own and not basing them on others.
Absolutely – if that had happened, CCFC fans and Wasps fans could have been staging sit-ins at the Ricoh, questions asked in Parliament, massive political pressure on CCC councillors etc. I would have been just as much on board as the next man, and with all that rumpus it might have been a different story.
They weren’t like somebody who had been hit and therefore intimidated into keeping quiet about it were they? They were disgruntled sports fans who had no reason whatsoever not to shout about it from the rooftops, stage protests, mobilise support. Or at the very least click a button online in large numbers. It didn’t happen, and the reason it didn’t happen IMHO was that (in total contrast to Wimbledon who were completely embedded in a specific local community) they’d already been playing on an industrial estate miles outside the M25 for more than a decade. It must have completely diluted them as a club, I can’t explain it any other way.
I didn't say anything about intimidation, I just said does it make it OK if they react differently. It wasn't the best example but you got the point.
That's where Wasps PR came into it, you have to give it to them it worked a treat. People can try and justify it all they want, but when it gets turned round their answers change.
If people want to be told what their morals and thoughts are by others it is up to them, they aren't really their own then are they?
In the end “how they reacted” is convenient crap. Some people when made redundant from work may not smash a place up but just go home to their family to be consoled. It doesn’t mean they didn’t care about their job ffs.
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