Southport Stabbing (6 Viewers)

[MalcSB]

Still don’t think they can. There seems to be a hard 30% cap on batshit still. Tory losses are going less and less to them and they’ll be at their peak right now.

Labour got 33.7% of the vote which, iirc, was about 20% of the electorate. Does that show how batshit their ideas were / are?

Outcome could be a close run thing next time, depending on turnout. Don’t be too smug.

 

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[Sky Blue Pete]

In fact a Muslim man did and he’s going to court and I hope he’s convicted. People need to realise Twitter isn’t real life and you can’t run about making death threats at people.

I hope so too
I fear though that much like the Lucy Connolly case there will be a nuance around using words rather than actually doing it and her problem was what she said and when she said it and then ignoring the advice of the solicitor and then gettting a new one to use the victim approach to justice which was plain stupid

 

[MalcSB]

I still don’t get the two tier system argument
And it’s certainly can’t be laid at the door of keir starmer unless from him time at dpp

The rest is a reasonable challenge to the justice system but ffs Boris doesn’t take the time to find out facts and evidence it’s all pomp and bluster and fluff

there are about 100 tiers of justice and the really inflammatory one is that if you don’t have any money you can fuckin whistle for justice

The uneven playing field arising from lack of funding for legal representation is disgusting.

 

[SBT]

Everyone has an equal right to have opinions and to express them. Terribly sorry we are not all left wing sheep like you.

You keep suggesting your opinions are being repressed - why?

 

[MalcSB]

I hope so too
I fear though that much like the Lucy Connolly case there will be a nuance around using words rather than actually doing it and her problem was what she said and when she said it and then ignoring the advice of the solicitor and then gettting a new one to use the victim approach to justice which was plain stupid

She used words and didn’t actually “go and do it”.

 

[Terry_dactyl]

All that shows is that silly fat wanker doesn't know what free speech means.

And also that he doesn’t know that due to us having a written/unwritten constitution we don’t actually have ‘freedom of Speech’ in this country.

 

[MalcSB]

You keep suggesting your opinions are being repressed - why?

It’s how my opinions are immediately dismissed as “bat shit” and / or worthless.

Could push me either way. Keep them to myself or dig my heels in and carry on expressing them. I have considered both options and even I self censor from time to time.

At the moment I am not allowing myself to succumb to left wing key board warriors.

 

[SBT]

It’s how my opinions are immediately dismissed as “bat shit” and / or worthless.

Could push me either way. Keep them to myself or dig my heels in and carry on expressing them. I have considered both options and even I self censor from time to time.

At the moment I am not allowing myself to succumb to left wing key board warriors.

It’s a forum, Malcolm.

 

[MalcSB]

And also that he doesn’t know that due to us having a written/unwritten constitution we don’t actually have ‘freedom of Speech’ in this country.

The main legal framework for freedom of expression is found in Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which is incorporated into UK law through the Human Rights Act 1998. This means the UK's courts must consider this provision when dealing with cases involving freedom of expression.

Ironic? Or bat shit?

 

[MalcSB]

It’s a forum, Malcolm.

I know.

Bring back the football.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

She used words and didn’t actually “go and do it”.

Her defence appears to have been I’m guilty of inciting racial hatred and despite guidance from the solicitor on how to minimise her sentence she ignored it and then appealed on the grounds of she wasn’t told about it and the appeal judges said tjats incredible and not credible
I’m now of the opinion she’s being used by political forces

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yep legislation in 86 was in response to poll tax riots probably and 2020 sentencing was down to Boris and his mates

It was 5 years before the poll tax riots. It's most likely in response to the miner's strike and football violence in the early 80s.

 

[Terry_dactyl]

The main legal framework for freedom of expression is found in Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which is incorporated into UK law through the Human Rights Act 1998. This means the UK's courts must consider this provision when dealing with cases involving freedom of expression.

Ironic? Or bat shit?

Does that mean it’s a ‘right’? Or something to consider. Well googled btw.

 

[shmmeee]

Does that mean it’s a ‘right’? Or something to consider. Well googled btw.

It’s a limited right.

Public authorities may restrict this right if they can show that their action is lawful, necessary and proportionate in order to:

• protect national security, territorial integrity (the borders of the state) or public safety
• prevent disorder or crime
• protect health or morals
• protect the rights and reputations of other people
• prevent the disclosure of information received in confidence
• maintain the authority and impartiality of judges

An authority may be allowed to restrict your freedom of expression if, for example, you express views that encourage racial or religious hatred.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It was 5 years before the poll tax riots. It's most likely in response to the miner's strike and football violence in the early 80s.

Thank you I was going to check my facts but thought sod it im sure someone else will know
I’m so lazy sorry

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It does say something when a huge proportion of our society thinks fuck it you should be able to say what you want without consequences

To be fair I think that too and it should be a very high bar before you break the law and higher before you’re imprisoned

 

[shmmeee]

It does say something when a huge proportion of our society thinks fuck it you should be able to say what you want without consequences

To be fair I think that too and it should be a very high bar before you break the law and higher before you’re imprisoned

I think that’s fair. And I don’t agree with a lot of the laws on the statute around this, but they are the laws. To be honest while ideologically I’m pretty hard line freedom of speech, that opinion has changed a lot seeing what’s done with modern communications tech and the damage it’s doing. There has to be a balance somewhere when everyone has a direct line to the entire planet.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I think that’s fair. And I don’t agree with a lot of the laws on the statute around this, but they are the laws. To be honest while ideologically I’m pretty hard line freedom of speech, that opinion has changed a lot seeing what’s done with modern communications tech and the damage it’s doing. There has to be a balance somewhere when everyone has a direct line to the entire planet.

And free speech advocates often just mean they want the freedom to say what they like when they want but not allow other to say anything often

Great phrase on free speech here and it’s where I am but again within reason

It’s in west wing series about someone standing on a street corner pleading for the right to someone to say something that I’d spend my whole career saying was wrong

The first amendment is so powerful but comes with danger

 

[fernandopartridge]

@MalcSB The ECHR / HRA would not help Lucy Connolly, see paragraph 2.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Read the judgment

The minimum was 36 months
+ 6 months due to the fact that is was a sensitive environment she did it in which she was well aware of, but, taking into account her circumstances including caring obligations
- 25% for guilty plea

If a Muslim man had stated that all pubs should be firebombed there would be uproar on here (rightly so)

https://www.westmidlands.police.uk/news/west-midlands/news/news/2024/september/man-jailed-for-involvement-in-bordesley-green-disorder/

This guy didn't get long did he!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

https://www.westmidlands.police.uk/news/west-midlands/news/news/2024/september/man-jailed-for-involvement-in-bordesley-green-disorder/

This guy didn't get long did he!

Just checked the sentencing guidelines

Violent disorder- section 2 Public Order Act 1986

In this article Public Order Offences lawyer Quentin Hunt looks at the offence of Violent Disorder and examines what has to be proven by the prosecution and how such cases can be successfully defended.

www.criminaldefencebarrister.co.uk

So one can argue that the sentencing guidelines are out of kilter but (and I’m not suggesting you were, were you? ) you can’t say this person was given less of a sentence because he was non white

 

[fatso]

Who on here do you think would agree with someone demanding that a hotel full of innocent people be set on fire?

Despite your attempts to obfuscate and pretend this woman is in prison for her views on immigration, there is zero chance of this sentence being handed down without her appalling calls for violence, which no right-minded person would agree with.

No one on here has agreed with what she posted, the issue is the length of the prison sentence, and the fact that violent criminals are being released early from prison, and rape gangs arnt even being investigated.
I'm sure some on here would prefer her to of been burnt alive at the stake then hung drawn and quartered, such is the outcry.

I wonder why these people didn't shout up when young girls where being drugged and gang raped by Pakistani grooming gangs?
I can only assume that some people consider that to be less of a crime.

 

[fatso]

Just checked the sentencing guidelines

Violent disorder- section 2 Public Order Act 1986

In this article Public Order Offences lawyer Quentin Hunt looks at the offence of Violent Disorder and examines what has to be proven by the prosecution and how such cases can be successfully defended.

www.criminaldefencebarrister.co.uk

So one can argue that the sentencing guidelines are out of kilter but (and I’m not suggesting you were, were you? ) you can’t say this person was given less of a sentence because he was non white

I definitely think the sentencing guidelines need to be re-examined.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Just checked the sentencing guidelines

Violent disorder- section 2 Public Order Act 1986

In this article Public Order Offences lawyer Quentin Hunt looks at the offence of Violent Disorder and examines what has to be proven by the prosecution and how such cases can be successfully defended.

www.criminaldefencebarrister.co.uk

So one can argue that the sentencing guidelines are out of kilter but (and I’m not suggesting you were, were you? ) you can’t say this person was given less of a sentence because he was non white

He went out looking to assault and cause harm to white English people. An Asian mob armed with knives and machetes surrounded a pub with innocent people which had to be barricaded from inside.

 

[mmttww]

I wonder why these people didn't shout up when young girls where being drugged and gang raped by Pakistani grooming gangs?

Probably not shouting about it because that's not what's being talked about in here atm. Does that need to be part of a conversation about what this woman did and the sentence she got? You can start a thread to talk about that if you want to.

 

[fatso]

It is relevant as its pointing out the 2 tier system of justice AND outrage.

 

[wingy]

He went out looking to assault and cause harm to white English people. An Asian mob armed with knives and machetes surrounded a pub with innocent people which had to be barricaded from inside.

It's certainly a a sector that may need revisions, I'd actually have the platforms for speech crimes legislated against, how to do it though I mean they're just amplifier to nutter's that wouldn't get an audience half the time!

 

[wingy]

The more I think about it what was Margaret thinking of when she set the law out on this,and what modification has been applied,it surely would been a broadcasters responsibility or a journalist she was thinking at that time?

 

[mmttww]

pointing out the 2 tier system of justice AND outrage.

OK. I've not seen outrage from people on here about what she did, at least not following the outcome of her appeal. I've seen people question her sentence or her treatment, and I saw people reference the relevant law and sentencing guidelines around it along with transcripts from the case.

If you're saying all things discussed in here should be measured in terms of how people reacted when grooming gangs cases were happening and the inquires that were done, it's gonna be pretty hard to actually have a conversation about anything. Do you see what I'm getting at?

 

[MalcSB]

It’s a limited right.

Big if in their, shmmeee

 

[MalcSB]

Probably not shouting about it because that's not what's being talked about in here atm. Does that need to be part of a conversation about what this woman did and the sentence she got? You can start a thread to talk about that if you want to.

It’s a comparison about how “justice” is differentially applied in this country. In a two tier sort of way I suppose. Puts tin hat on as the majority in here are simply not prepared to accept that as a hypothesis.

 

[MalcSB]

https://www.westmidlands.police.uk/news/west-midlands/news/news/2024/september/man-jailed-for-involvement-in-bordesley-green-disorder/

This guy didn't get long did he!

Bloody hell, that’s ridiculous wonder how soon he will be out if he doesn’t throw scalding liquids at prison officers?

Way beyond a joke now.

 

[SBT]

I wonder why these people didn't shout up when young girls where being drugged and gang raped by Pakistani grooming gangs?
I can only assume that some people consider that to be less of a crime.

This tedious watch-tapping is the last refuge of those who are either no longer willing or able to engage with the facts, when their own take on a situation is challenged. Absolutely lame af.

Incidentally can you point me to your own threads and posts on the topic of the grooming gangs before yesterday? You don’t seem to have made any. Or can we take your dozens of posts on the Lucy Connolly case to mean that you find the plight of the racist spouses of Tory councillors more compelling?

 

[MalcSB]

To this who doubt my membership of the Labour Party. Cost me less than £15.

I have contributed far more to the season ticket fund. It has occurred to me that I will probably have nothing in common with whomever benefits from that other than CCFC. A good enough reason for now, not necessarily for ever.

 

[mmttww]

It’s a comparison about how “justice” is differentially applied in this country. In a two tier sort of way I suppose. Puts tin hat on as the majority in here are simply not prepared to accept that as a hypothesis.

I mean... different laws carry different sentences. Rightly or wrongly. Bringing grooming gangs or examples of violent crimes in to a chat about a case that isn't either of those things doesn't make sense to me. If people want to talk about her case, let's do that. If people want to talk about something else, start a thread, talk about it.