solutions (1 Viewer)

[dongonzalos]

I have been thinking about this a bit, possibly a bit too much
If u take old sky blues viewpoint. Sisu are trying to get us as a club to cut our cloth accordingly. Which from the outside looks like the responsible thing to do. However we now have one of the smallest budgets in the division. We can't sign people like le fondre. This would probably be worth it if we were now debt free and facing this 50 50 chance of relegation. Instead we are still riddled with debt and facing the 50 50. So what is the solution if we get relegated we still have the debt and I would hazzard a guess our income will fall and the debt will increase. If we back the manager a little more maybe we could have cut the debt in a less drastic manner. More balanced so we stay in the division and cut the debt bit by bit. SISU have really gone for it this season which leaves me wondering why....... Why would u risk sending the club down without clearing the debt. The logical thing I can think is they are cutting their loses before handing it over. So unfortunately I am struggling for solutions. I don't see sacking the manager as an option as it will increase the debt. The new manager will have to face a relegation another clear out in the summer then start the season in a lower division with debt and no players. So is there any other solutions out there? ...........

 

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[ccfcway]

thats about 5 minutes more than SISU have thought about it !

 

[Grendel]

Look this club had been living on borrowed time financially for many years. We must be the only club that have gone down and after the parachute cushion retained league one status and / or not fell into administration.

Crowds are very poor given the size of the city. Sisu are business focused and cannot be expected to have affinity with the club. We are a white elephant to them. In truth I am amazed that they still back this club at all. I would have pulled the plug last year.

It's an unholy mess. Elliot and ransom are culpable and the fool mcginnity should have pushed admin on us years ago, we are existing on life support. There are no solutions until the public support the club in numbers and generate revenue.

To me Hoffman is the voyeur looking on. It's very obvious the money he has is limited and he wants the club for nothing. For a so called astute business brain this is arrogant and stupid. If you spent £30 million on an investment opportunity would you give it away for nothing? No you wouldn't.

Ultimately we will get what we deserve.

 

[dongonzalos]

Ha ha, cheers that cheered me up

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Balancing the books is not only the responsible thing to do, but it will also be a necessity for most clubs when the FFP rules kick in soon. Plus I find it difficult to criticise any ownership for not spending when we're talking about a 14k attendance with no stadium revenue of which to speak. So try this for change:

1. Fill out the ground every fortnight to boost team performance, coffers, and overall squad quality.
2. Change the manager.

About the only two solutions out there.

 

[Grendel]

As ever colonel you are correct. The club is where it is ultimately because of it's embarrassing support levels. Also apathy. No other club would tolerate a manager with his record. If you do stop moaning. When I last looked sisu were not a philothtopic organization and also I have looked but Coventry city do not seem to have charitable status.

 

[dongonzalos]

Yes kduffy I agree with a lot of what u say. Apart from the bit about sisu where u say you are amazed they still back the club. I don't believe they still back the club. I think the sale of juke went straight to one of their key investors. It is a white elephant for them as their so called astute business brains failed to realise what they were getting into. Surely they are international banking investors and should have been fully aware about what they were taking on.

 

[dongonzalos]

Balancing the books is not only the responsible thing to do, but it will also be a necessity for most clubs when the FFP rules kick in soon. Plus I find it difficult to criticise any ownership for not spending when we're talking about a 14k attendance with no stadium revenue of which to speak. So try this for change:

1. Fill out the ground every fortnight to boost team performance, coffers, and overall squad quality.
2. Change the manager.

About the only two solutions out there.

They did buy the club knowing we did not own the ground didn't they..... Or did someone hide that little detail.
I believe they thought it would be given to them cut price or free like the shares they took. Again questionable business sense.....

 

[Grendel]

The fact is ranson wanted a football club. We were last in a long line of options. We have to assume he produced a business plan which showed hecwiuld deliver premier league football to get a return. He failed. Sisu will now not care less about league status at the club. If some finance advisor tells them they may make more money as a league 2 club at the top of that league rather than struggling in thus that's what they choose. I always wanted administration before sisu but ranson and Elliot forced the change. We will pay a price for a long tune probably my whole lifetime. The fact some people want these clowns back shows we get exactly what we deserve.

 

[dongonzalos]

I totally agree with you. They are businessmen. They have no alligence to the club. I don't think they have to have alligence. However they are either very nieve or they are very bad businessmen or more likely both. Unfortunately we are now suffering for this. Maybe the best thing now for cov would be administration followed by relegation. Then hoff buys the club debt free. Unfortunately SISU won't allow administration due to the tarnish it would leave on their company

 

[Grendel]

Many organizations go into administration with no stigma. They own the debt. They own the golden ticket. Going into admin anyway means an independent body decided who is best to own the club, Hoffman will join the queue. They will carry on until someone meets the price.

 

[dongonzalos]

Unfortunately SISU took on the club under the set up when they first took over we could have bought talent and sold it on for more. Over a few seasons and gradually got stronger squad. The council would have had more faith eventually we would have got the stadium. Unfortunately the had a bad business plan wanted immidiate success bottled it. Now they are garanteed to make a loss and are just doing damage limitation.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

They did buy the club knowing we did not own the ground didn't they..... Or did someone hide that little detail.

No, but I never said or implied that they didn't. It's irrelevant. The point I made is that you cannot expect a club with so few fans and so little revenue and so little collateral to magically stump up money, especially when faced with imminent financial regulation.

The good news for many is that such regulations ought to make the club a more palatable proposition for potential buyers in the future.

I believe they thought it would be given to them cut price or free like the shares they took. Again questionable business sense.....

Entirely speculative and likely wrong. What we can say with much more certainty is that SISU can't be complete mugs considering their line of business; it seems implausible that they wouldn't have done their due diligence with the stadium options. What's more probable is that funding dried up from their investors post-crunch and Ranson's vision went with it.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Yes kduffy I agree with a lot of what u say. Apart from the bit about sisu where u say you are amazed they still back the club. I don't believe they still back the club. I think the sale of juke went straight to one of their key investors. It is a white elephant for them as their so called astute business brains failed to realise what they were getting into. Surely they are international banking investors and should have been fully aware about what they were taking on.

Some of that i agree with some i just cant

I agree they should have been more aware of what they were getting in to. That doesnt mean they should have put more money in than they have so far - better control of it should have been the case.

The money from Juke (a) hasnt all been paid in one go (b) a big chunk of it is due to Everton (c) will be used to fund day to day activity. What is the point of repaying it to any investor if that investor has to loan it back to the club to keep the club going ?

There is a reason why SISU need to get the club to cut its cloth accordingly. The business has no worth until such time as it is proven to be financially viable. It is not for any great love of CCFC

Buying more or more expensive players increases debt and losses both in the transfer and subsequent wages .... what it does not do is to guarantee success. Nor would it guarantee more income because CCFC has a well known reputation for low crowds. This is actually not a poker game this is peoples livelihoods. Some choose to gamble but in any one season there are only three prize places the rest are no where or relegated. Those that are relegated can have gambled and be locked into expensive wages with turnover drastically decreased - that means even greater losses debt and chance of going bust

We only assume we dont know there isnt money available to sign loans. AT has turned some down others have turned us down, others are off the market. Life is not as simple as throwing money at it. If you do throw money at it then unless it works 100% then there are serious consequences

solutions
1) balance the books
2) supporter financial participation in ownership
3) focus on youth development
4) look at the performance of all staff and cut under performers
5) above all get supporters back to the ground parting with money
6) buy the right to income from stadium income streams

 

[Grendel]

My view on the whole subject is one of utter doom. I think lord grey made a quote in 1914 that "the lights are going out all over Europe and they will not be alight for a long time". He was predicting a long and difficult war. He was mocked as the consensus was the great war would end in a few months. This is the same message that the people on here say when they think we will be promoted next season out of league one. No chance. That will be our home for years to come. This is why thorn must go. Survival percentage gets slimmer every day. Time to effect change and give hope.

 

[valiant15]

So what do we do then,sit back and let these muppets take us down to league 2,just so their investors can get some money back on the odd player sale? We've got to put up with league 1 or possibly league 2 with this lot just because some spivs fancied a gamble with a football club?

 

[dongonzalos]

Some of that i agree with some i just cant

I agree they should have been more aware of what they were getting in to. That doesnt mean they should have put more money in than they have so far - better control of it should have been the case.

The money from Juke (a) hasnt all been paid in one go (b) a big chunk of it is due to Everton (c) will be used to fund day to day activity. What is the point of repaying it to any investor if that investor has to loan it back to the club to keep the club going ?

There is a reason why SISU need to get the club to cut its cloth accordingly. The business has no worth until such time as it is proven to be financially viable. It is not for any great love of CCFC

Buying more or more expensive players increases debt and losses both in the transfer and subsequent wages .... what it does not do is to guarantee success. Nor would it guarantee more income because CCFC has a well known reputation for low crowds. This is actually not a poker game this is peoples livelihoods. Some choose to gamble but in any one season there are only three prize places the rest are no where or relegated. Those that are relegated can have gambled and be locked into expensive wages with turnover drastically decreased - that means even greater losses debt and chance of going bust

We only assume we dont know there isnt money available to sign loans. AT has turned some down others have turned us down, others are off the market. Life is not as simple as throwing money at it. If you do throw money at it then unless it works 100% then there are serious consequences

solutions
1) balance the books
2) supporter financial participation in ownership
3) focus on youth development
4) look at the performance of all staff and cut under performers
5) above all get supporters back to the ground parting with money
6) buy the right to income from stadium income streams

Very well put arguement I have to say and I agree with a lot of it. Unfortunately I think they do have to do all of your 5 points above however I think it should be done at a much slower pace and only sell a player once you have identified a suitable replacement. Approached them and know it will happen. I think if they had done that over the last two seasons we would be mid table

 

[Colonel Mustard]

So what do we do then,sit back and let these muppets take us down to league 2

You see those 18,000 empty seats at the Ricoh? That is sitting back.

 

[Grendel]

Well that's the pact we made 4 years ago and if Hoffman starts wheeling out honest ray and mr Coventry expect much of the same. Elliot forcing shareholders to give in to sisu was the ultimate sell out. A disgrace.

 

[ICHAN]

Well said Duffy, this is when the club was taken away from the fans, and the city and became a business, and as a consequence is being run as a business.

 

[valiant15]

Cm,do you really expect those 18k seats to be filled after what sisu have put us through over the last 4 years? And its getting worse! I'm up there every other week along with the other 9k season ticket holders,if sisu are still here next season expect to knock 2-3k off that. No investment in the football team and seemingly oblivious to the black hole that is relegation,that is sitting back.

 

[valiant15]

I agree duffy,elliot's had his time and i never trusted slippery ray.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Ok questions

What made CCFC pre SISU not a business ?
What is it that makes any club run as a business not good ?
what actual control did the pre SISU shareholders actually have?
Was the club run by very small group who had no responsibility to fans or city pre SISU?
How did having shareholders actually regulate the directors or stop the financial mess ?
Essentially what is the difference to now ?

Dont get me wrong I advocate fan shareholdings but I dont kid myself that token small shareholdings that we had are going to be any use what so ever other than making a few feel better about it and being able to attend an AGM.

We need to move away from how things have been run in the last 20 years - be more radical in our approach in my opinion

 

[dongonzalos]

I can't help but think if it was Just about SISU the fantastic business men getting Cov to have an Income to match its outgoings. Surely they would have thought that by sellling all the players may lead to relegation. Hence there is a fine balance. So when you see the club in the bottom three at christmas would you sell your main striker. Or would you keep him and bolster him with a couple of loan signings. Surely selling him will only increase the chances of not getting out of the bottom three.
Which would cost more relegation (I think more than a million) or keep the Juke till the summer and sell him for a million then.

He may not have kept us up but selling him increases the chances of us going down.

So if it is just about getting cov back on track financially am I a bit crazy or does the above make sense.

I can't help but think there is a bit more too it. I am affraid it has a bit more to do with their business brains and I think it will come out that selling Juke will have given certain key investor(s) a bit of money back. Whilst not easing the burden and other less important investors through some of these various business that have been set up.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Which would cost more relegation (I think more than a million) or keep the Juke till the summer and sell him for a million then.

CCFC couldn't extract a decent price for him in the summer, not a chance, and it would be an even more dismal fee if we were of L1 status (inevitable then, inevitable now). You can't keep letting people walk for nothing.

He may not have kept us up but selling him increases the chances of us going down.

Wrong.

CCFC averaged 0.67 points-per-game while Juke was here. Since selling him and bringing in the loanees we have averaged 0.85 points-per-game. Both are abysmal numbers but, strictly speaking, the January transactions have improved the team thus far.

Btw, I don't disagree with you about the principle of investing in order to improve the long-term ROI. But if they have no money to put in then we need to address what few variables can make a difference.

 

[dongonzalos]

...................

CCFC couldn't extract a decent price for him in the summer, not a chance, and it would be an even more dismal fee if we were of L1 status (inevitable then, inevitable now). You can't keep letting people walk for nothing.

I disagree the others were due to there contracts expiring a season of Juke scoring 20 would more likely command an even bigger fee. Whatever fee he goes or does not go for would be less that the cost of relegation


Wrong.

CCFC averaged 0.67 points-per-game while Juke was here. Since selling him and bringing in the loanees we have averaged 0.85 points-per-game. Both are abysmal numbers but, strictly speaking, the January transactions have improved the team thus far.



Btw, I don't disagree with you about the principle of investing in order to improve the long-term ROI. But if they have no money to put in then we need to address what few variables can make a difference.

Unfortunately the variable you dont have their is the ratio if you had Juke and the loaness. I think it would be better than both of the above mentioned ratios.

 

[Grendel]

Unfortunately the variable you dont have their is the ratio if you had Juke and the loaness. I think it would be better than both of the above mentioned ratios.

And the variable none of us have is if we jettison Thorn and get someone else in. Perhaps a honeymoon period is the only way to get the ratio to the required level.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Cm,do you really expect those 18k seats to be filled after what sisu have put us through over the last 4 years?

We couldn't fill Highfield Road during our recent peak in the late 90s. That was Premiership football. You can make fair arguments about how SISU have ballsed-up on many fronts, but you cannot blame them for the apathy of the Coventry population. The Cov Telegraph ought to be running a campaign to fill out the ground for at least one season, but they go for the easy target of ownership.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Unfortunately the variable you dont have their is the ratio if you had Juke and the loaness. I think it would be better than both of the above mentioned ratios.

That's not a variable. That is pipe-dreaming. If you want to include Juke and the loanees and HH, then you may as well say Juke + signing one + signing two + signings three and four. The team is cash-strapped, nobody comes in before somebody goes out; that's the way it's been for a couple of years now.

 

[Grendel]

We couldn't fill Highfield Road during our recent peak in the late 90s. That was Premiership football. You can make fair arguments about how SISU have ballsed-up on many fronts, but you cannot blame them for the apathy of the Coventry population. The Cov Telegraph ought to be running a campaign to fill out the ground for at least one season, but they go for the easy target of ownership.

Dead right. Look at it the other way. Why would anyone invest in a club that the local community is clearly so apathetic to. I wouldn't.

 

[dongonzalos]

That's not a variable. That is pipe-dreaming. If you want to include Juke and the loanees and HH, then you may as well say Juke + signing one + signing two + signings three and four. The team is cash-strapped, nobody comes in before somebody goes out; that's the way it's been for a couple of years now.

Cash strapped through SISU's choice, If you recall they promised loan signings before Juke was sold. As I said I understand the policy of sorting the finances but you must balance it with relegation.

The simple question is, is the million (in fact I think 750000) gained for Juke worth the increased risk of relegation. If not why not sell him in the summer. Why the urgency at that point why not wait 4/5 months. If it means the club may stay unless long term finanancial security is suddenly not as important to you as short term gain.

They were still looking to sign two loan strikers as of a couple of days ago so I think they could have still had nimely and norwood and kept Juke.

Or even secure your two extra loan strikers in principle then sell Juke. Dont do a wolves make the decision then think about the replacements afterwards and tehn realise you cant get anyone

 

[@richh87]

Look this club had been living on borrowed time financially for many years. We must be the only club that have gone down and after the parachute cushion retained league one status and / or not fell into administration.

Crowds are very poor given the size of the city. Sisu are business focused and cannot be expected to have affinity with the club. We are a white elephant to them. In truth I am amazed that they still back this club at all. I would have pulled the plug last year.

It's an unholy mess. Elliot and ransom are culpable and the fool mcginnity should have pushed admin on us years ago, we are existing on life support. There are no solutions until the public support the club in numbers and generate revenue.

To me Hoffman is the voyeur looking on. It's very obvious the money he has is limited and he wants the club for nothing. For a so called astute business brain this is arrogant and stupid. If you spent £30 million on an investment opportunity would you give it away for nothing? No you wouldn't.

Ultimately we will get what we deserve.

Haha - it's not Hoffman's money and decent businessmen won't just shell out what these arseholes SISU want.

SISU got the fans' share for nothing remember. I can't believe you're backing them while they relegate your club. Mental.

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

Look this club had been living on borrowed time financially for many years. We must be the only club that have gone down and after the parachute cushion retained league one status and / or not fell into administration.

Crowds are very poor given the size of the city. Sisu are business focused and cannot be expected to have affinity with the club. We are a white elephant to them. In truth I am amazed that they still back this club at all. I would have pulled the plug last year.

It's an unholy mess. Elliot and ransom are culpable and the fool mcginnity should have pushed admin on us years ago, we are existing on life support. There are no solutions until the public support the club in numbers and generate revenue.

To me Hoffman is the voyeur looking on. It's very obvious the money he has is limited and he wants the club for nothing. For a so called astute business brain this is arrogant and stupid. If you spent £30 million on an investment opportunity would you give it away for nothing? No you wouldn't.

Ultimately we will get what we deserve.

I was with up until 'Hoffman is arrogant and stupid for not shelling out'.

Crazy talk.

 

[Grendel]

I was with up until 'Hoffman is arrogant and stupid for not shelling out'.

Crazy talk.

Don't think those are actually my words

 

[Grendel]

Haha - it's not Hoffman's money and decent businessmen won't just shell out what these arseholes SISU want.

SISU got the fans' share for nothing remember. I can't believe you're backing them while they relegate your club. Mental.

I am not backing them. Clearly your'e business head has gone AWOL. Your'e chum Elliot sold small shareholder's down the toilet to get SISU into this club - surely you remember all our Christmases have come at once?

They as an entity have shelled out in excess of £30 million. It has been a disaster on both sides but to suggest they will now just go away quietly is utter stupidity. It will not happen. Wake up to reality with been living with it for 4 Christmases already thanks to Mr Coventry and co.