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So now we know (13 Viewers)

  • Thread starter bradwellskyblues
  • Start date Jul 30, 2020
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shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #36
mark82 said:
I don't think it's a surprise to people on here, but there are still a lot of people who are hanging on everything Wasps say as the absolute truth, because apparently they don't have a history of lying (which is a bizarre claim in itself).
Click to expand...

I mean they haven’t lied as far as I can tell. They’ve just refused to break the NDA.

Until we know what’s in the indemnity/promise to not sue we don’t know who’s closer to the truth (I’m guessing both are saying just what they want).
 

mark82

Super Moderator
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #37
shmmeee said:
Just read Gilbert’s twitter. There’s literally nothing there we haven’t been saying for days. Someone ELI5 please?
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Reading between the lines, SG has spoken to parties involved that are not Sisu, Wasps or CCFC.
 
Reactions: Orca

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #38
Hadji's_Goatee said:
So let’s get this straight.

The Indemnity covers only the Council. And they are the ones insisting on it.

The Council are the soul reason we are not playing in Cov.

They drew first blood long before SISU came and continue to do so.
Click to expand...

That’s not what’s being said?
 
Reactions: Orca

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #39
Orca said:
Talks broke down as CCFC couldn't sign an indemnity that prevented them from suing CCC in the future. The indemnity didn't include Wasps.

I guess much of this was known, but for me it clears up the conflicting statements of Wasps and CCFC about indemnity.
Click to expand...

Ah! It is being said it didn’t include Wasps?

Getting it now!

What time was this on CWR does anyone know? I’d like to listen
 
Reactions: The Penguin, mark82 and Orca

Orca

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #40
Hadji's_Goatee said:
So let’s get this straight.

The Indemnity covers only the Council. And they are the ones insisting on it.

The Council are the soul reason we are not playing in Cov.

They drew first blood long before SISU came and continue to do so.
Click to expand...

We don't yet know if the Council insisted on it or not. There's clearly a chance they asked for it, but there's also the possibility they didn't. Wasps will have to pick up a significant financial bill if CCC are in the wrong. It could have been done independently of the Council.

There's a good chance we'll never know. However, CCC are not on the NDA, so they could clear this up pretty quickly if they chose to. I guess if they don't make a statement on it, or refuse to comment when asked, you can surmise they did ask.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #41
djr8369 said:
Would it even be legal for the council to strong arm wasps into holding us hostage in order to grant them protection from legal processes? If it is it seems it would at least be unethical and against the code of conduct for elected officials. If so then you’d think there would be a route of complaint/appeal which SISU would have pursued?
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If that’s what happened. No. But there’s no indication of strong arming and I don’t see how they could strongarm a third party business against their will.
 

Orca

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #42
shmmeee said:
What time was this on CWR does anyone know? I’d like to listen
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Just after 7:30
 
Reactions: shmmeee

Johnnythespider

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #43
shmmeee said:
This isn’t news?

We knew this already. It was blatantly obvious. Have I missed something?
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It needs spelling out for some folk
 
Reactions: Skyblueweeman and usskyblue

mark82

Super Moderator
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #44
Orca said:
We don't yet know if the Council insisted on it or not. There's clearly a chance they asked for it, but there's also the possibility they didn't. Wasps will have to pick up a significant financial bill if CCC are in the wrong. It could have been done independently of the Council.

There's a good chance we'll never know. However, CCC are not on the NDA, so they could clear this up pretty quickly if they chose to. I guess if they don't make a statement on it, or refuse to comment when asked, you can surmise they did ask.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a FOI request is needed.
 
Reactions: Skybluemichael, Mucca Mad Boys and djr8369

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #45
Orca said:
Just after 7:30
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Just listened. Lot clearer now. Wasps dropped the requirement for their own indemnity. If it’s CCC then how is that the state aid remedy as they’d be the recipients of any remedy??

Got to say, can we now hand it to Lego head? He’s done more investigative journalism than all the rest put together and blown this wide open.
 
Reactions: TTG, Somerset Sky Blue, eastwoodsdustman and 10 others

Orca

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #46
mark82 said:
Sounds like a FOI request is needed.
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That was actually said in the piece IIRC. Flupton said something along the lines of Gilbert getting more FOI requests in.
 
Reactions: mark82
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #47
Orca said:
He didn't say or infer anything about whether the Council had asked for the indemnity. He did use the phrase off the record and that he'd heard it from more than one place. I'd suspect his sources are Boddy and Street.
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Don't think the latter. I'd say higher up the food chain on the former.
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #48
shmmeee said:
If that’s what happened. No. But there’s no indication of strong arming and I don’t see how they could strongarm a third party business against their will.
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Why would wasps insist on an indemnity to protect the council? Particularly when it is against their interests for talks to fail as they could use the money?
 
Reactions: DannyThomas_1981

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #49
shmmeee said:
To be clear. Not on about the NDA. That was always a smokescreen and even if there were more parties wouldn’t have to have stopped Wasps and Sisu releasing what concerned only them

But people seem surprised the indemnity isn’t just against Wasps. That’s been the issue from the start since last year.
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But you have been saying this is just a conspiracy theory and to put our tin hats on.
 
Reactions: The Reverend Skyblue, Skyblueweeman, eastwoodsdustman and 5 others

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #50
djr8369 said:
Why would wasps insist on an indemnity to protect the council? Particularly when it is against their interests for talks to fail as they could use the money?
Click to expand...
Maybe the council has more interest in wasps than they make out.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #51
shmmeee said:
If that’s what happened. No. But there’s no indication of strong arming and I don’t see how they could strongarm a third party business against their will.
Click to expand...
Perhaps no strong arming required, perhaps it’s a conspiracy.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #52
Colour me shocked.
 
Reactions: Skyblueweeman

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #53
djr8369 said:
Why would wasps insist on an indemnity to protect the council? Particularly when it is against their interests for talks to fail as they could use the money?
Click to expand...

Well my working theory has been there’s some future legal action planned against the council of the state aid goes against them that will somehow threaten Wasps lease. This fits that I guess. Need to know the details of what it is.
 
Reactions: djr8369 and Orca

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #54
MalcSB said:
But you have been saying this is just a conspiracy theory and to put our tin hats on.
Click to expand...

No. I’ve been saying the idea that CCC are trying to destroy CCFC for thirty years is a conspiracy theory.

Ive also been saying the idea Gilbert and the CT are part of that plan is a conspiracy theory. Which this kinda proves.
 
Reactions: Orca

MusicDating

Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #55
Boddy said - ' “The principle and concept of an indemnity against Wasps and a third party was absolutely a requirement, and this indemnity would have put the Football Club at substantial risk and jeopardise its very future.'

Wasps then said - “However, Wasps did not insist on an indemnity clause as has been claimed – this claim is simply false. In addition, nothing in the agreement would have put CCFC at substantial risk, as has also been claimed.'

Gilbert then said - ' Multiple sources directly involved in talks (and from different organisations) have said talks failed because Wasps were seeking indemnity / protection not for themselves - but for Coventry City Council.'
 
Reactions: TTG, capel & collindridge, montydon87 and 1 other person

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #56
shmmeee said:
No. I’ve been saying the idea that CCC are trying to destroy CCFC for thirty years is a conspiracy theory.

Ive also been saying the idea Gilbert and the CT are part of that plan is a conspiracy theory. Which this kinda proves.
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Would you settle for an 8 year conspiracy?
 
Reactions: TTG and Fergusons_Beard

mark82

Super Moderator
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #57
shmmeee said:
Just listened. Lot clearer now. Wasps dropped the requirement for their own indemnity. If it’s CCC then how is that the state aid remedy as they’d be the recipients of any remedy??

Got to say, can we now hand it to Lego head? He’s done more investigative journalism than all the rest put together and blown this wide open.
Click to expand...

Was emailing with him on Tuesday evening with the follow up questions we had sent through to Wasps and some other bits. He's genuinely really committed to getting to the bottom of this.
 
Reactions: Somerset Sky Blue, Skyblueweeman, MusicDating and 5 others

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #58
MalcSB said:
Would you settle for an 8 year conspiracy?
Click to expand...

No. Do you realise how many councillors there are?

Any conspiracy theory involving that many people is nonsense. It’s where all conspiracy theories fall down.
 
Reactions: djr8369
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #59
MusicDating said:
Boddy said - ' “The principle and concept of an indemnity against Wasps and a third party was absolutely a requirement, and this indemnity would have put the Football Club at substantial risk and jeopardise its very future.'

Wasps then said - “However, Wasps did not insist on an indemnity clause as has been claimed – this claim is simply false. In addition, nothing in the agreement would have put CCFC at substantial risk, as has also been claimed.'

Gilbert then said - ' Multiple sources directly involved in talks (and from different organisations) have said talks failed because Wasps were seeking indemnity / protection not for themselves - but for Coventry City Council.'
Click to expand...
All that hangs together if any indemnity is to be provided by SISU rather than the club.
 
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shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #60
MusicDating said:
Boddy said - ' “The principle and concept of an indemnity against Wasps and a third party was absolutely a requirement, and this indemnity would have put the Football Club at substantial risk and jeopardise its very future.'

Wasps then said - “However, Wasps did not insist on an indemnity clause as has been claimed – this claim is simply false. In addition, nothing in the agreement would have put CCFC at substantial risk, as has also been claimed.'

Gilbert then said - ' Multiple sources directly involved in talks (and from different organisations) have said talks failed because Wasps were seeking indemnity / protection not for themselves - but for Coventry City Council.'
Click to expand...

This is just arguing over the definition of “indemnity” though.

The argument on here at least has been Wasps are asking for Sisu to pay any money back they’re forced to pay to CCC. This confirms that’s not true. It must be about future legal action against CCC.
 
S

skybluesam66

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #61
MalcSB said:
Would you settle for an 8 year conspiracy?
Click to expand...
If you read Fletcher;s book it is certainly well before that
 
Reactions: TTG and eastwoodsdustman

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #62
Deleted member 5849 said:
All that hangs together if any indemnity is to be provided by SISU rather than the club.
Click to expand...

This is a very good point.
 

mr_monkey

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #63
MusicDating said:
Boddy said - ' “The principle and concept of an indemnity against Wasps and a third party was absolutely a requirement, and this indemnity would have put the Football Club at substantial risk and jeopardise its very future.'

Wasps then said - “However, Wasps did not insist on an indemnity clause as has been claimed – this claim is simply false. In addition, nothing in the agreement would have put CCFC at substantial risk, as has also been claimed.'

Gilbert then said - ' Multiple sources directly involved in talks (and from different organisations) have said talks failed because Wasps were seeking indemnity / protection not for themselves - but for Coventry City Council.'
Click to expand...

the most important question now is when was this "3rd party" indemnity added to the talks, was it there at the start or was it added in late in the day (as it was last year but for wasps rather than the council)
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #64
shmmeee said:
This is just arguing over the definition of “indemnity” though.

The argument on here at least has been Wasps are asking for Sisu to pay any money back they’re forced to pay to CCC. This confirms that’s not true. It must be about future legal action against CCC.
Click to expand...
Does it matter? Wasps have lied.
 
Reactions: Fergusons_Beard

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #65
mr_monkey said:
the most important question now is when was this "3rd party" indemnity added to the talks, was it there at the start or was it added in late in the day (as it was last year but for wasps rather than the council)
Click to expand...

But it wasn’t for Wasps last year. Thats why talks broke down. Sisu signed a thing saying not Wasps then at the end of the talks when it came to finalising it Wasps wanted a wider indemnity/promise of no future legal action.
 

mr_monkey

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #66
shmmeee said:
But it wasn’t for Wasps last year. Thats why talks broke down. Sisu signed a thing saying not Wasps then at the end of the talks when it came to finalising it Wasps wanted a wider indemnity/promise of no future legal action.
Click to expand...

So probably goal posts moving at the end of talks again, these people all need their heads banging together
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #67
MalcSB said:
Does it matter? Wasps have lied.
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Not saying they aren’t disingenuous, but what’s the outright lie? We still don’t know details of the indemnity and how it would impact CCFC. Wasps have said all along they want wider indemnity.

We all suspected they were hiding behind the caterers. That was disingenuous but not technically a lie.

We are all up in arms if they want something that threatens the future of CCFC, but we don’t know if that’s true yet. Would a promise not to sue CCC in the future threaten our future? As I say on here it was out that we can’t stop the state aid case so it was an unfair risk to indemnify it. This confirms it’s not the state aid case but a future action Sisu would take. I fail to see how that threatens CCFCs future. I couldn’t care less if Sisu can’t sue it doesn’t help the club.
 
Reactions: Orca
S

skybluesam66

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #68
so - Indemnity or no indemnity - What is the difference between us playing at the Ricoh or not. Irrespective of any indemnity, surely it is in all parties interests for us to be playing at the Ricoh ?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #69
skybluesam66 said:
so - Indemnity or no indemnity - What is the difference between us playing at the Ricoh or not. Irrespective of any indemnity, surely it is in all parties interests for us to be playing at the Ricoh ?
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Frankly, I'm not sure next season, it matters where we play.
 
Reactions: TTG, Sky Blue Pete, MusicDating and 1 other person

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #70
interesting. A little more clarity

Neither side out right lied or told the whole truth. Quelle surprise.

I also believe there is a time limit of 6 years for any civil court case. a claim against ccc would run out by end of this year In that case I would guess. I assume wasps would be required to participate?
 
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