SISU (2 Viewers)

[torchomatic]

One of the issues I have is we become the forgotten club , even now no one really mentions us . I remember the day of CEEFAX sport and you could see Cov news on it. We have become nothing , I loved the great escapes we did

To be fair, any team outside the Premier League is nothing. It's like no other football exists.

 

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[NortonSkyBlue]

To be fair, any team outside the Premier League is nothing. It's like no other football exists.

I must admit I have got to the stage where I know the premier League scores but have no interest in the scorers or table anymore. I look at the championship scores with a passing interest but nothing more. Souter of Fleetwood means more than Maguire or Van Dijk and I wouldn't have a clue who plays for Burnley, Brighton or Palace nowadays.

 

[COVKIDSNEVERQUIT]

At present the club is being run much better looking at it from the outside. However I think having taken the club so low any improvement is going to seem like a sizeable improvement. It was largely SISU and the decisions they made or oversaw that took us that low. There are people at the club that know how to run a team and the behind scenes functions. They know the importance of fan engagement and that has markedly improved from the toxic situation created. Anything that is going on behind the scenes between SISU and other stakeholders has been largely masked by the achievements this season on the pitch. I wonder if people would have been quite so conciliatory if the team was struggling at the lower end of L1.

I do not think for one minute that SISU or Joy Seppala have changed the objectives or the drivers for those objectives. This is about high risk investment strategies first and foremost. There has been no light bulb moment

MR is doing a great job in difficult circumstances. He has bought in to what needs to be done and the restrictions he faces and made it work. He was appointed 06/03/2017 after we had qualified for the final on 02/04/2017. He wont have changed much in a month, couldnt change the playing squad available so to credit it all to him in terms of winning the cup is a bit unfair. Even he said at the time it wasnt really down to him. If you credit him with the cup final win then you could easily also credit him with our relegation - which would also not be fair. What you can not take away from MR is the promotion in difficult circumstances from L2 and the potential for Championship football next season - all down to him, his staff and his team. SISU are supportive and keen for success - why wouldnt they be but the biggest support is probably just letting MR get on with it and do his job

SISU have wiped the slate clean financially for CCFC twice. Once in 2008 and then again in 2013. Yet after twelve years of their tenure we still accrue debt, much of it subject to double digit interest rates. The aim is for the club to be self sufficient, something i would agree with for all clubs, but unless we source multi million pound player sales then we are nowhere close. In fact annual operating losses in the years to 31/05/2019 are on the rise

In 2008 we had total assets of £17,270,857 (based on what SBS&L took on) and in 2019 it was £1,676,045

In 2008 we had liabilities of £22,219,146 (based on what SBS&L took on) and in 2019 it was £21,439,765 (but then there was the debt converted to preference shares following the 2014 administration of £65m to add to that)

In 2008 we had a home in Coventry, 2019 we do not

"But they are backing MR " Passively perhaps but in terms of providing extra finance are they? Taking the accounts for 2018 and 2019 (the only full years under MR's management), SISU have put £500k in to the club. In the same period they have extracted £620,650 of the loans. In 2019 they started paying down the interest that has been accruing when they paid out £1.48m. Lets be clear they are perfectly entitled to do this. But what they are doing is extracting funds generated from football trading restricting the amount available to MR. They choose to charge the interest many other owners do not make any interest charge

Yes we have had lots of players join the squad for the 2017/18, 2018/19 and 2019/20 seasons but it was a necessity due to the number that have left. They had to be replaced otherwise we had no squad. That really isnt the owners backing the manager is it? even less so if look at the net amount put in or extracted by the owners.

To be fair in the early years they did put substantial amounts in to the club to keep it going - around 30m to 35m - however much of it resulted from their own mis-management and poor decision making. For example when they took over they had the whip hand on the rent to be paid and failed to address it. They failed to control expenditure, they appointed people not up to the task. It wasnt until 2011 when Seppala got involved personally that things started to change in terms of CCFC finances but at around that time relationships with other stakeholders became very toxic.

The idea of breaking the lease was quite clever to be honest but high risk. It relied on no one else being interested - they gambled with CCFC and miscalculated. The administration was driven by SISU, and the roots of it were in 2011 when SISU as managing agents arranged a charge in favour of ARVO to be levied over the CCFC assets. Yes the lease was broken but what the plan achieved though was a disconnect between club and the stadium but also a big chunk of fans. Despite the current success that has not been fully repaired for many. Not to mention the unwelcome sale to of ACL to wasps

The second exile is less clear cut. The actions of the landlords wasps have created hardened positions and the likelyhood of a return is not great. SISU are entitled to take the actions they have, but must have known with reasonable certainty back in February 2019 what the likely reaction would be. No it isnt legal action against wasps but it does affect wasps and their ability to refinance. It would be naiive to think that wasps and their owner would not fight their own corner.

The current business model for CCFC implicitly seeks not to rely on the owners. SISU are lenders of last resort, they make sure the club doesnt fail to pay its way. That is not a bad thing it means the club will survive but it also protects the ability for SISU to take actions relating to their investment clients. However my own reading of things is that far from it being a well thought out plan it came about because they simply could not access further funding. The club had to live within its own cash means. No great innovative management strategy that but not a bad strategy even so.

The club relies on player sales to keep going in the SISU tenure the club has sold £24m of players and bought £9m. During MR's tenure covering 2018 & 2019 that has been sales £5.4m and purchases £1.1m. In 2019/20 you would estimate sales £8m (chaplin,bayliss & McCallum mainly) and purchases £1m? The club has to sell players to survive and recently they have been very good at it. Remember there have been no net new funds put in by the owners during that time, the club broke even in 2019 and had a small amount in the bank

The PR more recently has been better. The connection to the fans has developed. But is this the owners or is it driven by MR and people like Boddy? I would think it is the latter. But it also helps that the team is winning and on the verge of promotion again. By own feel is that any PR directly from SISU is for specific purposes and not aimed at the fans foremost

Personally i think people are letting the success on the pitch colour their judgement of SISU actions. For years there was tangible evidence of SISU being one of the worst scheming owners around. Recently they have been less focused on confrontation and let MR & co get on with improving the asset they bought. However is the lack of confrontation partly because other stakeholders have simply stopped engaging with SISU? It would however be quite wrong to think that this is all there is to it, their focus primarily is to recover their investment, at the moment things are going well on the pitch and behind the scenes SISU can simply sit and wait, they dont have to say anything or do anything and luckily the team performance further masks that. They are apparently sure they can have a further two years at St Andrews if they need it. But there is no long term security for the club, there is no tangible evidence of a return to Coventry or a new stadium. The biggest damage they have done is to create situations where the club has no real security. No i am not excusing the part others have played in all this particularly CCC but this thread is an assessment of SISU. It is not all SISU's fault but they have been the leading figure in the whole saga, more often than not leading the events

Are we better off than we were in 2008. In the sense we are still here yes. But could CCC have afforded to see the club liquidated in 2008? Was ,except for vested interests, administration at that point a better option? We will never know. But we have since been loaded with debt and interest charges, are homeless, spent 7 of the SISU 12 years in L1 or L2, we have burnt many bridges with stakeholders and some fans, etc ..................... assuming we were always to survive from 2008 then are we really better off? I am not at all sure we are. A large part of that is down to SISU (but it wasnt just them)

Good owners? Better owners? bad owners? - no just owners with an awful history and a team batting above itself. We cant change the past so enjoy the present team and look forward to the teams future. We cant change the owners either so we just have to accept who they are and pray they make the right decisions for CCFC. Personally i will always have a healthy scepticism of their actions, plans and motives i do not feel they deserve my trust or that all of a sudden they have become beacons of good ownership.

On the other hand what MR has done for the club this time around has been tremendous

PUSB's

A good assessment Oldskyblue58.