Should Mark Robins be sacked? (1 Viewer)

[oucho]

I judge him and the players after every game like most others, good or bad.

Not sure you are really grasping this football thing, stick to court cases.

It's his job to win as many games as possible.

No shit. The point is if he doesn't win games that doesn't mean he deserves criticism. Don't think you get that. Football isn't about short term results or performances.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

No shit. The point is if he doesn't win games that doesn't mean he deserves criticism. Don't think you get that. Football isn't about short term results or performances.

No it isn't, which is why 95% of us don't want him sacked right now. But thinking to the end of the season if he carries on with the same thing again and again and we end up mid table or lower then he cannot justify his position.

 

[oucho]

No it isn't, which is why 95% of us don't want him sacked right now. But thinking to the end of the season if he carries on with the same thing again and again and we end up mid table or lower then he cannot justify his position.

Why not? It's ridiculous to think that he stands or falls over the performances over a single season. Give him 3 years and judge then.

 

[Terry_dactyl]

I judge him and the players after every game like most others, good or bad.

Not sure you are really grasping this football thing, stick to court cases.

It's his job to win as many games as possible.

And to date, he appears to have been more successful at this than any of his predecessors.

 

[Nick]

No shit. The point is if he doesn't win games that doesn't mean he deserves criticism. Don't think you get that. Football isn't about short term results or performances.

It depends on the manner we don't win them doesn't it and if people can see him changing his approach to rectify it?

Football is always about results.

 

[Otis]

And to date, he appears to have been more successful at this than any of his predecessors.

In a division though where we have been one of the favourites to go up and where we have been expected to win a lot more games due to the level we are playing at.

 

[Terry_dactyl]

In a division though where we have been one of the favourites to go up and where we have been expected to win a lot more games due to the level we are playing at.

I’m sure we had those very same expectations in the championship and league 1 at some point and yet, off the top of my head, I can only think of half a season with Eric black, half a season with Micky Adams, half a season with Roland Nilsson (?) and half a season with Tony Mowbray where we have ‘challenged’. The stats appear to point to Robins being more successful even than these!

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

I can take that if the manager shows willingness to try whatever it takes. I can't remember the last manager who did. MR clearly cares a lot for the club but his analysis of why we lose games is usually way off.

Which is why I expect us to set up the same way on Saturday and get the same outcome.

We all have opinions about games, tactics and about players. That’s as it should be. However to categorically state that Robin’s view of a game is way off is a bold statement. This is a man whose whole working life has been in football. No doubt he will have been connected to Man Utd as a youngster too. His playing career was mostly in the top flight. He worked for years with possibly the greatest manager in the history of the English game. Since finishing playing he has been employed as coach or a manager at five professional clubs, us twice. No doubt he has coaching badges galore. I can understand having an opinion, but to say that you are right and he is wrong is, as I say, a bold statement. I think he is honest after games. I recognise that he has to be diplomatic at times and can’t slate players publicly. I also recognise that he will stand and fall by the decisions he makes. Therefore I am sure he is Making what he considers are the correct decisions to get us the results we and he needs. I don’t think he would be stubborn for the sake of his own ego if it was going to cost us games. A case in point was the way he stuck with McNulty, insisting he was a good player when lots of us were questioning his value to the team. If you are a manager I would think it is necessary to develop a thick skin and have faith in your own ability and the decisions you make.
When Jimmy Hill sold Terry Bly and brought in George Hudson there was pandemonium, fans were up in arms. Similarly when Hudson was sold to be replaced by Bobby Gould there was an outcry among fans. On both occasions Jimmy was proved right. I’m not comparing Robin’s to Jimmy Hill in the managerial stakes by the way.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Why not? It's ridiculous to think that he stands or falls over the performances over a single season. Give him 3 years and judge then.

Because neither the finish nor the performances would be acceptable in such a case and critically, he would have stood by a busted system. What I find baffling is that he has shown signs of sending the team out to have a go, with positive results. But too often it is standing by something which clearly isn't working.

It's that which deserves sacking more than the league position. If he shows some sign of reflection and changes things up, I would expect an upturn in results.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We all have opinions about games, tactics and about players. That’s as it should be. However to categorically state that Robin’s view of a game is way off is a bold statement. This is a man whose whole working life has been in football. No doubt he will have been connected to Man Utd as a youngster too. His playing career was mostly in the top flight. He worked for years with possibly the greatest manager in the history of the English game. Since finishing playing he has been employed as coach or a manager at five professional clubs, us twice. No doubt he has coaching badges galore. I can understand having an opinion, but to say that you are right and he is wrong is, as I say, a bold statement. I think he is honest after games. I recognise that he has to be diplomatic at times and can’t slate players publicly. I also recognise that he will stand and fall by the decisions he makes. Therefore I am sure he is Making what he considers are the correct decisions to get us the results we and he needs. I don’t think he would be stubborn for the sake of his own ego if it was going to cost us games. A case in point was the way he stuck with McNulty, insisting he was a good player when lots of us were questioning his value to the team. If you are a manager I would think it is necessary to develop a thick skin and have faith in your own ability and the decisions you make.
When Jimmy Hill sold Terry Bly and brought in George Hudson there was pandemonium, fans were up in arms. Similarly when Hudson was sold to be replaced by Bobby Gould there was an outcry among fans. On both occasions Jimmy was proved right. I’m not comparing Robin’s to Jimmy Hill in the managerial stakes by the way.

Let's take his comments after FGR as an example. He explained the defeat in terms of not tracking players closely enough, being beaten to the ball too easily and so on. Arguably, he placed more blame on the players than himself. He made no reflection on a system which camps 2 defensive midfielders in front of the defence and which made chances very hard to create. Equally no reflection on the decision to stick with this even after going 1-0 or 2-1 down. He saw nothing wrong with that side of things because he keeps doing it.

Yes it is a bold statement to say he was way off with that assessment, but I ask anyone who went to that game to explain why we lost. His experience does not make everything he says correct and the lack of reflection concerns me the most for the rest of the season.

 

[oucho]

Because neither the finish nor the performances would be acceptable in such a case and critically, he would have stood by a busted system. What I find baffling is that he has shown signs of sending the team out to have a go, with positive results. But too often it is standing by something which clearly isn't working.

It's that which deserves sacking more than the league position. If he shows some sign of reflection and changes things up, I would expect an upturn in results.

It depends on the manner we don't win them doesn't it and if people can see him changing his approach to rectify it?

Football is always about results.

I just don't get why you are both expecting and demanding results this season. Why not give gim a free pass for 2 years and judge him after year 3? We've had enough managers working under pressure and failing, let's try taking the pressure off and see how this affects results in three years tine instead of worrying about next Saturday. We need to think in terms of years not weeks or months.

 

[Otis]

Should Mark Robins be sacked?

My daughter has been keeping me awake by coughing all night and I just spilt the banana, strawberry and blueberry smoothie I just made all over the kitchen floor, so, yes, definitely!

 

[Terry_dactyl]

Should Mark Robins be sacked?

My daughter has been keeping me awake by coughing all night and I just spilt the banana, strawberry and blueberry smoothie I just made all over the kitchen floor, so, yes, definitely!

I see your point but on the other hand...i’m off work all week, the kids are going out and about (who cares where), I’m probably going to take a leisurely stroll for some breakfast in about an hour (or two), then finish reading my book or possibly watch a film.
Let’s judge Robins on how he’s done after 10 years.

 

[Nick]

I just don't get why you are both expecting and demanding results this season. Why not give gim a free pass for 2 years and judge him after year 3? We've had enough managers working under pressure and failing, let's try taking the pressure off and see how this affects results in three years tine instead of worrying about next Saturday. We need to think in terms of years not weeks or months.

I demand a manager to want to win games. I demand a manager notices that things aren't working and tweaks things to try and get better results from them.

Pretty sure if I went to get a job tomorrow they would let me off with not doing it properly for the first 2 years before they then expect me to do it.

It's all well and good saying it doesn't matter for 2 years when you don't have to watch such negative football week in, week out.

 

[Captain Dart]

And to date, he appears to have been more successful at this than any of his predecessors.

To date, he appears to be no more successful at this stage than any of his predecessors. We do not look like we are definitely going up.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I just don't get why you are both expecting and demanding results this season. Why not give gim a free pass for 2 years and judge him after year 3? We've had enough managers working under pressure and failing, let's try taking the pressure off and see how this affects results in three years tine instead of worrying about next Saturday. We need to think in terms of years not weeks or months.

Time is not our friend thanks to the extra issues the club faces off the pitch. At the end of next season most of our players' contracts will be up. If we finish in the bottom half as you are content to do there isn't a cat in hell's chance they will stay or that attendances will be much above 5k.

You're then looking at a weaker group going into Year 3 with an even more shrivelled fan base than we have now. The trend is to go down, not up. And I don't know about you, but I don't want to be in this terrible league a moment more than we have to be. We need to get back up to a respectable standard.

 

[oucho]

Time is not our friend thanks to the extra issues the club faces off the pitch. At the end of next season most of our players' contracts will be up. If we finish in the bottom half as you are content to do there isn't a cat in hell's chance they will stay or that attendances will be much above 5k.

You're then looking at a weaker group going into Year 3 with an even more shrivelled fan base than we have now. The trend is to go down, not up. And I don't know about you, but I don't want to be in this terrible league a moment more than we have to be. We need to get back up to a respectable standard.

Disagree with this, there is no basis for such assertions.

I demand a manager to want to win games. I demand a manager notices that things aren't working and tweaks things to try and get better results from them.

Pretty sure if I went to get a job tomorrow they would let me off with not doing it properly for the first 2 years before they then expect me to do it.

It's all well and good saying it doesn't matter for 2 years when you don't have to watch such negative football week in, week out.

Looking at your sentence, how would yoy feel if we playing Keegan (mid 90s) era entertaining football, winning or losing 4-3 but occupying 17th place. Genuinely interested.

I am happy to look for improvements anf learnings over 3 years whereas you want it over three games. Tryst the bloke yo know what he's doing, i want us to win on Saturday as much as anyone but personnel consistency over multiple years is more important than chasing the next game. IMO.

 

[Terry_dactyl]

To date, he appears to be no more successful at this stage than any of his predecessors. We do not look like we are definitely going up.

However, we are definitely not going down.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Disagree with this, there is no basis for such assertions.

The basis being the last 17 years. What basis do you have for thinking the likes of McNulty and Andreu will stay at a bottom half club once their contracts are up?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

However, we are definitely not going down.

Whoopdy do.

 

[Terry_dactyl]

Whoopdy do.

It’s an improvement on previous years. Suck it up!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s an improvement on previous years. Suck it up!

It objectively isn't.

 

[Otis]

I see your point but on the other hand...i’m off work all week, the kids are going out and about (who cares where), I’m probably going to take a leisurely stroll for some breakfast in about an hour (or two), then finish reading my book or possibly watch a film.
Let’s judge Robins on how he’s done after 10 years.

Nope. Always find it most practical to judge him when I'm in a bad mood and poor health.

 

[Terry_dactyl]

It objectively isn't.

Maybe, it just feels to me like we’ve been consistently in the bottom half of all the divisions we’ve been in.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Maybe, it just feels to me like we’ve been consistently in the bottom half of all the divisions we’ve been in.

No, even if we won the league it would be our worst position in over 50 years.

 

[Otis]

Maybe, it just feels to me like we’ve been consistently in the bottom half of all the divisions we’ve been in.

Don't worry, normal service will be resumed real soon.

 

[Nick]

Disagree with this, there is no basis for such assertions.



Looking at your sentence, how would yoy feel if we playing Keegan (mid 90s) era entertaining football, winning or losing 4-3 but occupying 17th place. Genuinely interested.

I am happy to look for improvements anf learnings over 3 years whereas you want it over three games. Tryst the bloke yo know what he's doing, i want us to win on Saturday as much as anyone but personnel consistency over multiple years is more important than chasing the next game. IMO.

It's not hard to understand, if people see something not working over multiple games and nothing done to try and address it then they will point it out.

It's not just about one or two games, it's the whole season.

It's pretty obvious what people are getting at.

 

[Terry_dactyl]

No, even if we won the league it would be our worst position in over 50 years.

Ah! You’re looking at the bigger picture! The penny drops! Sorry, Im afraid I like to compartmentalise my support a little more - we’re in a better position in this division than we have been in previous divisions. Robins also won us a cup and got us quite far in the FA cup this year. What would sacking him achieve? Who would we get?

 

[Captain Dart]

However, we are definitely not going down.

I very nearly put that as part of my reply, but I though noooo.. too wordy keep it terse.

 

[oucho]

The basis being the last 17 years. What basis do you have for thinking the likes of McNulty and Andreu will stay at a bottom half club once their contracts are up?

What do those 17 years teach you about the long term effectiveness of sacking 'underperforming' managers every 15 months?

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

Let's take his comments after FGR as an example. He explained the defeat in terms of not tracking players closely enough, being beaten to the ball too easily and so on. Arguably, he placed more blame on the players than himself. He made no reflection on a system which camps 2 defensive midfielders in front of the defence and which made chances very hard to create. Equally no reflection on the decision to stick with this even after going 1-0 or 2-1 down. He saw nothing wrong with that side of things because he keeps doing it.

Yes it is a bold statement to say he was way off with that assessment, but I ask anyone who went to that game to explain why we lost. His experience does not make everything he says correct and the lack of reflection concerns me the most for the rest of the season.

Again it is all about opinions but I would agree with his comments on the FGR match. I thought that they were up for it more, were quicker in the tackle, won more second balls. I don’t think it was a case of not trying by us More of a less determined state of mind. Strachan used to say that the player’s attitude was more important than tactics or formations.
After Accrington however where when he said that we needed to be more streetwise, (possibly true, but not the reason for the defeat as far as I could see) I did feel he ignored the fact that we had been totally outplayed. I am sure he recognised that but perhaps hard to admit.

 

[Nick]

Again it is all about opinions but I would agree with his comments on the FGR match. I thought that they were up for it more, were quicker in the tackle, won more second balls. I don’t think it was a case of not trying by us More of a less determined state of mind. Strachan used to say that the player’s attitude was more important than tactics or formations.
After Accrington however where when he said that we needed to be more streetwise, (possibly true, but not the reason for the defeat as far as I could see) I did feel he ignored the fact that we had been totally outplayed. I am sure he recognised that but perhaps hard to admit.

I don't even think it's a case of him admitting it and saying "I messed this up". I don't expect him to say that, more just acknowledge it by trying to prevent it the next game or change things up a bit.

It's like when he said we would "League 2" Brighton, I am still not sure what he meant by this as we seem to get "League 2'd" by opposition teams a fair bit.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What do those 17 years teach you about the long term effectiveness of sacking 'underperforming' managers every 15 months?

Out of all the managers we have sacked in that time, who didn't deserve it? Only Eric Black and Dowie stand out for me. We gave Coleman and Micky Adams 2 years+ each too...

 

[oucho]

Out of all the managers we have sacked in that time, who didn't deserve it? Only Eric Black and Dowie stand out for me. We gave Coleman and Micky Adams 2 years+ each too...

Sorry don't agree, who knows what progress we'd have made if we kept the faith with them. I don't think any of them deserved the sack because none had 3 years on which to judge them. Football is out of hand with people expecting managers can do a turnaround job within months of joining. Would the BBC sack its Director General after 12 months if results were worse than expected? Would Tesco? What about other sports or industries? I can't think of another sector where there's a such a desperate obsession with immediate results (i.e.. within first 12-18 months of the job) and a terror of "failure" leading to such an aggressive "hire and fire" culture. It's bound to impact results long term. Have you considered that our long term decline in league position is because of a lack of continuity in management, rather than hiring the wrong managers / keeping them too long?

Bear in mind that Mowbray, Dowie, Aidy, Reid and Adams between them got promoted to the Prem 6 times. It can't have been the case that our owners recruited the wrong managers all the time....

 

[Grendel]

Sorry don't agree, who knows what progress we'd have made if we kept the faith with them. I don't think any of them deserved the sack because none had 3 years on which to judge them. Football is out of hand with people expecting managers can do a turnaround job within months of joining. Would the BBC sack its Director General after 12 months if results were worse than expected? Would Tesco? What about other sports or industries? I can't think of another sector where there's a such a desperate obsession with immediate results (i.e.. within first 12-18 months of the job) and a terror of "failure" leading to such an aggressive "hire and fire" culture. It's bound to impact results long term. Have you considered that our long term decline in league position is because of a lack of continuity in management, rather than hiring the wrong managers / keeping them too long?

Bear in mind that Mowbray, Dowie, Aidy, Reid and Adams between them got promoted to the Prem 6 times. It can't have been the case that our owners recruited the wrong managers all the time....

Coleman had virtually 3 years and whatever metric you measure him on we went backwards.