Sheffield Wednesday points deduction (9 Viewers)

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Jul 31, 2020

Moff said:
It will help us, but I would rather it be other clubs in the Championship.
Lived in Sheffield for a while and have good memories of many trips to Hillsborough, and unlike the Blunts across town, I have always found their fans friendly and decent.

I don’t mind Sheffield Wednesday but let’s not pretend they’d sympathise if it was us. If that’s the reason we stay up next season then We’ll take it - better them than us

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Jul 31, 2020

larry_david said:
Might be on my own here but don't want anymore on minus points. Just makes the season a bit... Well shit don't it?

Nah - every little helps. Our budget is the lowest, this levels the playing field a bit

ccfcway · Jul 31, 2020

larry_david said:
Might be on my own here but don't want anymore on minus points. Just makes the season a bit... Well shit don't it?

Not sure what you mean. Winning or losing in court is getting as important as on the field results these days .

larry_david · Jul 31, 2020

Staying up is all that matters agree, but if 2 teams start on - 12 and we stay up by default, won't feel great. In fact prob feel like winning league 1 by default.

pipkin73 · Jul 31, 2020

larry_david said:
Staying up is all that matters agree, but if 2 teams start on - 12 and we stay up by default, won't feel great. In fact prob feel like winning league 1 by default.

Winning league 1 by "default" feels great.

Frostie · Jul 31, 2020

larry_david said:
Staying up is all that matters agree, but if 2 teams start on - 12 and we stay up by default, won't feel great. In fact prob feel like winning league 1 by default.

Good job we won it on merit then.

Terry_dactyl · Aug 1, 2020

larry_david said:
Might be on my own here but don't want anymore on minus points. Just makes the season a bit... Well shit don't it?

Think you might be on your own...we’re gonna need all the help we get!

bawtryneal · Aug 1, 2020

Magwitch said:
That twelve points will be halved minimum on appeal.

They will not appeal. They are pleased it's only 12 points. It could have been a lot more. Blatant abuse of accounting practice to attempt to beat FFP rules.
Derby, Forest and Reading could all have the same punishment.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 1, 2020

larry_david said:
Staying up is all that matters agree, but if 2 teams start on - 12 and we stay up by default, won't feel great. In fact prob feel like winning league 1 by default.

Is it any more fair to be competing against clubs that pull shenanigans selling their ground to gamble more money they otherwise wouldn't be able to spend? If anything there should be a raft of other point deductions for clubs that have taken the piss with this in recent years. Including those who got away with it by getting promoted but since came back down.

bawtryneal · Aug 1, 2020

larry_david said:
Staying up is all that matters agree, but if 2 teams start on - 12 and we stay up by default, won't feel great. In fact prob feel like winning league 1 by default.

Break the rules and cheat and face the consequences. Why should we feel sorry or feel our situation is by default. The rules are there to help provide some form of level playing field.

skyblu3sk · Aug 1, 2020

I think people have been quick to forget the points deductions we have had for breaking the rules... whats the saying play stupid games win stupid prizes?

larry_david · Aug 1, 2020

I just want the pure, real emotion from footy back. Championship every win will be incredible. What I don't want is half the teams playing games out because 3 teams are all on - 12. Although I'm also being naive there's every chance - 12 teams will catch us. Staying in the Championship season 1 is everything but I wouldn't fancy seeing Barnsley type celebrations knowing they stayed up because of Wigan dodgy owners

shmmeee · Aug 1, 2020

larry_david said:
Might be on my own here but don't want anymore on minus points. Just makes the season a bit... Well shit don't it?

larry_david said:
I just want the pure, real emotion from footy back. Championship every win will be incredible. What I don't want is half the teams playing games out because 3 teams are all on - 12. Although I'm also being naive there's every chance - 12 teams will catch us. Staying in the Championship season 1 is everything but I wouldn't fancy seeing Barnsley type celebrations knowing they stayed up because of Wigan dodgy owners

Yeah, agreed to a point and I’d have liked to win L1 properly as well. Doesn’t stop me being ecstatic when it happened though. Rules of the league are rules of the league. As others have said, we’ve paid the price before and took it on the chin.

Legia Sky Blue · Aug 1, 2020

If teams seek to cheat the rules in order to gain a competitive advantage they deserve to be punished. By cheating they are ensuring there isn't a level playing field to start with, and not taking this action would encourage others to follow suit, demeaning the competition even further.

wingy · Aug 1, 2020

larry_david said:
Staying up is all that matters agree, but if 2 teams start on - 12 and we stay up by default, won't feel great. In fact prob feel like winning league 1 by default.

Kind of with you here

But more from the point of doing enough ourselves where others penalties don't come into play

Plus Wednesday may use 'a percieved injustice' as motivation and kick on .
Much like Pressley did with us .

steve cooper · Aug 1, 2020

shmmeee said:
Yeah, agreed to a point and I’d have liked to win L1 properly as well. Doesn’t stop me being ecstatic when it happened though. Rules of the league are rules of the league. As others have said, we’ve paid the price before and took it on the chin.

Our points deductions were basically caused by our owners being twats, I don't remember any true supporter condoning what went on, in fact the opposite

Houchens Head · Aug 1, 2020

Why are people saying these deductions are "going to help us" etc? They won't bother us because we will be so high up the league anyway! We are going to storm the Championship! Have faith!

Sky Blue Harry H · Aug 1, 2020

Had a look at The Wednesday forum - they're remarkably sanguine about it. They seem to think their owner/club deserved it.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 1, 2020

Sky Blue Harry H said:
Had a look at The Wednesday forum - they're remarkably sanguine about it. They seem to think their owner/club deserved it.

Refreshing to see

Grendel · Aug 1, 2020

bawtryneal said:
They will not appeal. They are pleased it's only 12 points. It could have been a lot more. Blatant abuse of accounting practice to attempt to beat FFP rules.
Derby, Forest and Reading could all have the same punishment.

The only issue I guess is timing and the apparent contradiction with Wigan. If we were in Charltons shoes would be be happy - no

robbiethemole · Aug 1, 2020

skyblu3sk said:
I think people have been quick to forget the points deductions we have had for breaking the rules... whats the saying play stupid games win stupid prizes?

Exactly, and how many fans from other teams were showing any sympathy for us? not a single fucking one . So forgive me in not giving a single fuck about other teams getting caught like we did,and I know it's not not admin related but they cheated so pay the price.

bawtryneal · Aug 1, 2020

Grendel said:
The only issue I guess is timing and the apparent contradiction with Wigan. If we were in Charltons shoes would be be happy - no

I expect SWFC and the EFL mutually agreed to delay the points deduction until next season on the understanding SWFC do not appeal. I expect the EFL will argue to CAFC that there is not enough time to change the outcome with the new fixture lists coming out in 2 weeks time and will "hide" behind the Covid delays argument.

bawtryneal · Aug 1, 2020

larry_david said:
I just want the pure, real emotion from footy back. Championship every win will be incredible. What I don't want is half the teams playing games out because 3 teams are all on - 12. Although I'm also being naive there's every chance - 12 teams will catch us. Staying in the Championship season 1 is everything but I wouldn't fancy seeing Barnsley type celebrations knowing they stayed up because of Wigan dodgy owners

So if you were a Barnsley fan would you like to see your team relegated instead of Wigan.
Do you feel sorry for somebody who commits a crime and gets fined or goes to prison. What is the difference ??

larry_david · Aug 1, 2020

bawtryneal said:
So if you were a Barnsley fan would you like to see your team relegated instead of Wigan.
Do you feel sorry for somebody who commits a crime and gets fined or goes to prison. What is the difference ??

If I were a Barnsley fan I'd be delighted to stay up considering they should be gone.

Woodingdean_Sky_Blue · Aug 1, 2020

larry_david said:
Might be on my own here but don't want anymore on minus points. Just makes the season a bit... Well shit don't it?

I agree. I'd rather we stay up on merit... and if we can't that's our own fault. It's hardly the Corinthian spirit to rely on the misfortune of others.

Legia Sky Blue · Aug 2, 2020

Woodingdean_Sky_Blue said:
I agree. I'd rather we stay up on merit... and if we can't that's our own fault. It's hardly the Corinthian spirit to rely on the misfortune of others.

It's not exactly the Corinthian spirit to spend more money than your rivals, and to buy better players, when you haven't got the money to do so. It is grossly unfair instead to penalise clubs who have been financially responsible. Both Wigan and Sheffield Wednesday have cheated and deserve to be punished, and although it suits our purposes for Wednesday to start next season with a points deduction, it would have been fairer to implement it in the season just gone, given it materially affected the relegation positions.

Magwitch · Aug 2, 2020

But how else can football authorities punish these clubs who deliberately flout the rules, there has to be deterrent or clubs will just run amok to get into the PL promised land. Perhaps a ban from the transfer market for a couple of years could be one punishment perhaps.

Woodingdean_Sky_Blue · Aug 2, 2020

Legia Sky Blue said:
It's not exactly the Corinthian spirit to spend more money than your rivals, and to buy better players, when you haven't got the money to do so. It is grossly unfair instead to penalise clubs who have been financially responsible. Both Wigan and Sheffield Wednesday have cheated and deserve to be punished, and although it suits our purposes for Wednesday to start next season with a points deduction, it would have been fairer to implement it in the season just gone, given it materially affected the relegation positions.

I agree that there need to be repercussions for breaking the rules, I just wonder if there might be better options than point deductions.

I think point deductions damage the overall spectacle of the season. Point deductions also hurt the supporters... and I think it is those who overspent who need to be punished, not Joe Soap.

I don't know what the ideal solution is. Perhaps there should be some mechanism that picks up on overspending much earlier (this will limit the potential impact). Maybe owners who overspend should be automatically classed as not being fit and proper owners (meaning they would have to sell the club). Perhaps the overspending club should be forced into a 'fire sales' of players (these will hit the owner in the pocket). Maybe a massive fine is enough.

Woodingdean_Sky_Blue · Aug 2, 2020

Magwitch said:
But how else can football authorities punish these clubs who deliberately flout the rules, there has to be deterrent or clubs will just run amok to get into the PL promised land. Perhaps a ban from the transfer market for a couple of years could be one punishment perhaps.

I think a transfer ban for two or three seasons would be highly effective.

Make it so purchases and sales are banned and players are still free to walk away at the end of their contract.

I think most owners would be terrified of this. But does it punish the fans too much?

Magwitch · Aug 2, 2020

Unfortunately fans are always seen as collateral damage as we know only too well here.

Woodingdean_Sky_Blue · Aug 2, 2020

Magwitch said:
Unfortunately fans are always seen as collateral damage as we know only too well here.

Don't we know it.

Legia Sky Blue · Aug 2, 2020

As long as our clubs still exist I don't really buy into the punishing the fans angle of this argument. Fans are punished anyway when their teams don't play well and get relegated, its just the natural order of things, and is part of the pitfalls of supporting a football team. I would definitely agree that last season Bury fans were overly punished, but not so much Bolton, whose fans saw their team relegated. They still had their team to support, and their immediate pain is likely to be only temporary. Their fans had previously witnessed a long spell in the Premier watching the likes of Okocha, Djorkaeff and Anelka play for them, who they couldn't really afford, and which put them in a false position. Their fans undoubtedly rode that wave, just as Portsmouth had done before them, and would probably not wish to swap their memories of those days in order to prevent their current predicament. Now they have hit League 2, they will look to consolidate and move forward again as ourselves and Portsmouth have done, and which then creates new memories in itself. Eventually they will get back to being a top half League 1/ bottom half Championship team, which is probably their rightful place, and with some luck they might even do better.

tisza · Aug 2, 2020

I don't mind Wednesday but I think they've got off lucky with 12 points.
It's a manipulation of the FFP and these clubs had been getting away with it.
Still a nonsense system allows clubs to lose 39 million over a 3 year period.
Derby's looks even more blatant and there's others.
Was a report that up to 8 Championship clubs needed the transfer window to open by June in order to sell players to balance the books or face penalties

Mucca Mad Boys · Aug 2, 2020

larry_david said:
Staying up is all that matters agree, but if 2 teams start on - 12 and we stay up by default, won't feel great. In fact prob feel like winning league 1 by default.

Did you see the Barnsley celebrations after they survived because of Wigan’s -12 point deduction?

If we survived due to something similar, I’d be just as happy as they were.

Terry Gibson's perm · Aug 2, 2020

It honestly wouldn’t bother me if every other team in our league got deducted fifty points, promotion by default is still promotion the record books would just show that we went up.

Sheffield Wednesday points deduction (9 Viewers)

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