NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Personally I don't see overt franchising as a good ownership model, so I wouldn't ever consider it better for CCFC.
Seppala at the SCG Meeting... (2 Viewers)
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Personally I don't see overt franchising as a good ownership model, so I wouldn't ever consider it better for CCFC.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
No, I am 100% against wasps owning us and I can't see how it will be better for ccfc. It is never going to happen, so we will never have to cross that bridge.
If wasps bought us, that would be me done.
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In your heart of heart if the FL rules didn't prevent franchising do you honestly believe we would still be here?
I don't like what Wasps did to their fans however it is owned by businessmen who make decisions based on money not fan loyalty.
It's a disgrace the the RFA allow this in their rules.
We are very fortunate our rules don't allow it. We got as close to it as we are allowed and you still come and support.
I see no difference to Wasps owning us to what we have now.
Business people who put their company first not necessarily the best for the cub.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
If Wasps did a deal with CCFC that allowed access to all revenue streams but we were now a bit in bed with wasps under whatever guise. You couldn't see how that could benefit CCFC?
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Yes of course we would still be here. Where else would we go and get c10k attendances week in week out?
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Astute
Well-Known Member
No, I am 100% against wasps owning us and I can't see how it will be better for ccfc. It is never going to happen, so we will never have to cross that bridge.
If wasps bought us, that would be me done.
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It wouldn't be Wasps owning us. It would be the owners of Wasps that would own us.
I would be happy for them to take us over and move Wasps back nearer London. That is as long as they don't move us to London
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Yes of course we would still be here. Where else would we go and get c10k attendances week in week out?
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Sorry Stu. When ACL was sold to Wasps if we were able to move the team to a purpose built Stadium with land for development potential for a similar price to what Wasos got for ACL or less. If the rules didn't stop it we would be gone.
You judge Wasps because they were allowed to do it. You are in denial if you do not believe our owners would do the same.
They are business people who will do whatever they can in the rules that is the best for their business. If that conflicts with what is best as a fan for CCFC trust me it would happen.
You really see a difference between the owners of wasps and our owners?
Nick
Administrator
At least if they did move us miles away the trust and Coventry media would be fully behind it
As well some of the most vocal fans.dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
At least if they did move us miles away the trust and Coventry media would be fully behind it
What do you think Nick. If the rules allowed it and SISU felt for their business plan CCFC would be better off moved elsewhere. Do you think they would move us or not?
Nick
Administrator
If they could get a ground cheap, probably. It would just be good business though wouldn't it? Doing it to survive etc? Richest club in league one?
I don't think they would move us full time. I wouldn't support the club any more, would be interesting to see how some people reacted though.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Personally I don't think they would even if the FL rules allowed it. They could have had the Ricoh hypothetically and didn't buy it so why do you think they would move us away, potentially lose 80% fan base and therefore revenues?
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NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
I'd reckon the more precedents of sporting clubs moving and successfully embedding, the more likely it is that SISU would do that...
CJ_covblaze
Well-Known Member
I know sorry if that came across as arsey (pun intended). Unfair to comment on a public forum about every reason but he did have disagreements with one or two members. What's certain is that any supporters group would be better with him.
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dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
They would do it in order to make more money than the alternatives. Or lose less money than the alternatives. Which is their job. Same as the owners of Wasps.
The difference is one is allowed to the other isn't.
I think Stu's stance that he would stop going to Cov matches if Wasps took over but goes now. Doesn't add up, just my opinion of course he is welcome to his. I don't see any difference between the two owners they will do what is best for their business. Not necessarily what is best for the fans or the heritage of the club.
Nick
Administrator
Especially after seeing the warm welcome and the positive reaction it gets....
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Personally I don't think they would even if the FL rules allowed it. They could have had the Ricoh hypothetically and didn't buy it so why do you think they would move us away, potentially lose 80% fan base and therefore revenues?
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You are side stepping the point. You are outraged at what the owners of Wasps did. They did it to make more money. That's their Job if our owners felt something would make them more money and it involved moving the club and they were allowed to. They would do it and you know they would.
Nick
Administrator
I am pretty sure he would be outraged if SISU did it?
That is the difference, I don't think it is right Wasps did a full time move. I don't think it is right if SISU did a full time move.
You can guarantee there would be a plenty of people who won't have a bad word said about Wasps going mental if SISU did it.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
tbf, it'sentirely possible that his paymaster has had a word since...
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
He is saying he wouldnt come to Cov matches if Wasps took over because of what they did.
I believe our current owners would do the same if they were allowed and if fir whatever reason it made financial sense to them.
So technically don't go to Cov matches now.
However my actual view is go to Cov matches in both scenarios
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Nick
Administrator
But they haven't done a full time move so it is irrelevant isn't it? Basing it on maybes isn't really going to prove anything.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
And if they did I would stop supporting the club, just like I will if wasps bought us or merged with us.
What wasps did was wrong. Full stop and I hope they fail and go back to London.
It's not about rules, it's about ethics.
And I really don't understand this point: -
1 set of owners permanently moved they club 90 miles away from their base with total disregard of their fanbase.
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NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Actually, to get back to the OP, if they really have managed to miss 3,000 fans off their budgetry needs then that is truly, truly incompetent.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I asked whether heart in heart you think they would or not. They wouldn't be doing there job if they didn't do they would. So no it's not irrelevant
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
And if they did I would stop supporting the club, just like I will if wasps bought us or merged with us.
What wasps did was wrong. Full stop and I hope they fail and go back to London.
It's not about rules, it's about ethics.
And I really don't understand this point: -
1 set of owners permanently moved they club 90 miles away from their base with total disregard of their fanbase.
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Point is they would, that's their job they wouldn't be doing it if they didn't. Only the rules stop them.
Nick
Administrator
The rules stop me from murdering in this country, it may be ok in another country. It doesn't mean I think it would be ok.
Your argument is outrageous "Don't be nasty to Wasps because SISU would do the same if they could". If it happened, I am sure they would get the same, probably from people who ironically go and watch Wasps.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The unknown here is how the fans in the new location would react. I don't think there is another location like Milton Keynes where there isn't a football club in existence. So realistically you'd be looking to move to somewhere if and when a club went bust.
To pick a random club, lets say Brighton went bust and the Amex was set empty with no potential buyer. That has to be attractive to SISU. The only thing they need to establish then is would the Brighton locals take to it like the Coventry locals have to Wasps or would they not attend in numbers on principle.
Thankfully the rules don't allow it, not yet anyway. If this European Super League thing takes off how long before smaller clubs are allowed to official become feeder / reserve teams to them? Anyone fancy a move to Manchester? At least we'd still be in Sky Blue :thinking about:
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
While we're at it, some of those answers are crazy too. Are they *really* what was said?!?
Now whilst I agree the stadium setup was crazy, SISU *did* elect to be part of a joint venture, by electing to buy *us*. If it was such an issue, they could have found another club desperate enough to allow them to buy them (i.e. not Southampton, Villa, Man City...)
True, but propotionately we had enough that first season down. We stuffed it up because we've been, and still are, an ineptly run football club. Doesn't matter how much cash in parachute payments we'd have been given, that would sill have been the case!
Worryingly, this suggests the need for an urgent cash flow injection in the transfer window was paramount.
Eh? Was this explained? I'm sure this does make sense if it's explained, but on face value it looks like absolute madness!
Genuinely interested in what the plan here is There are people who can help with that...
But but but... we've been spending this year's budget based on getting 3,000 more fans then we have, so how can it be the same budget next season?!?
I assume this involves liaising with the city council to develop some community projects then...?
I assume something got lost in the translation to the minuted conversation?
Joy Seppala said:
Now whilst I agree the stadium setup was crazy, SISU *did* elect to be part of a joint venture, by electing to buy *us*. If it was such an issue, they could have found another club desperate enough to allow them to buy them (i.e. not Southampton, Villa, Man City...)
True, but propotionately we had enough that first season down. We stuffed it up because we've been, and still are, an ineptly run football club. Doesn't matter how much cash in parachute payments we'd have been given, that would sill have been the case!
Worryingly, this suggests the need for an urgent cash flow injection in the transfer window was paramount.
Eh? Was this explained? I'm sure this does make sense if it's explained, but on face value it looks like absolute madness!
Genuinely interested in what the plan here is
There are people who can help with that...But but but... we've been spending this year's budget based on getting 3,000 more fans then we have, so how can it be the same budget next season?!?
I assume this involves liaising with the city council to develop some community projects then...?
I assume something got lost in the translation to the minuted conversation?
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Oh and also
But didn't we hand Pressley a four year deal not so long ago...?
But didn't we hand Pressley a four year deal not so long ago...?
Nick
Administrator
Unless that is what taught them that when they had to pay him off.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
So we haven't been run over-wisely by the right people since 2012 then...
stupot07
Well-Known Member
And this is the point, Don asks me that if in my heart of hearts do I think sisu would move us, I say no, exactly because of what you've said, then I get told I'm wrong.
If it is so straight forward that any club's owner would do it under those conditions, what about all these other rugby clubs that are temporary ground sharing? Why didn't they buy the Ricoh?
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singers_pore
Well-Known Member
When SISU made the above comments there were some posters on here who predicted that SISU were simply bullshitting. Unfortunately there are some other people on here, most notably Nick and Grendel, who ridiculed those posters . Read and weep guys.
Nick
Administrator
And this is the point, Don asks me that if in my heart of hearts do I think sisu would move us, I say no, exactly because of what you've said, then I get told I'm wrong.
If it is so straight forward that any club's owner would do it under those conditions, what about all these other rugby clubs that are temporary ground sharing? Why didn't they buy the Ricoh?
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Because he is trying to make you out as a hypocrite because you dislike Wasps, for something that SISU may want to do but can't anyway
Nick
Administrator
Bullshitting about what?
Do you mean people like me who called Bullshit about the new stadium right at the start?
Again, you are talking absolute shit.
singers_pore
Well-Known Member
So you don't consider the following statements by SISU to be bull shit?
We need a rent reduction, well actually it’s not the rent it’s the match-day revenues, or rather it’s all the revenues, because we can’t possibly afford not to have them, although we only want them if the loan is paid off, and when we said we’d give the charity £5m we meant £2m as a favour because it’s not worth anything really, and the real value of the stadium is not in the revenues anyway but in the land development potential, and now you’ve reduced the rent we can’t afford to use the stadium so we’ve disconnected that non-trading part of the club, and moved to Northampton in the West Midlands, because we don’t want exposure to the City Council, so we won’t be coming back until we’ve built a new stadium in the Coventry area, for which we’ve had very productive meetings with other local authorities, so we’ll announce the site very soon, but we are still interested in buying the stadium, but not unless all the contracts are paid off, so we won’t interfere with Wasps buying the stadium, sorry we meant the new stadium is actually in Coventry, and we need the help of the City Council because we owe it to the fans, and owning a stadium is crucial, but we don’t actually need to own a stadium, although we don’t want risk exposure to Wasps, so we’ll pursue a long-term arrangement with Wasps, by which we mean a short-term arrangement while we pursue our medium-term strategy of owning a stadium, during which time we definitely won’t fund any operating losses, but we might if it means getting to the Premier League.
singers_pore
Well-Known Member
When the stadium was first mooted you submitted lots of posts along the lines of "Where will it be?", "How big will it be?".
When I said it was all bull shit you asked me why I thought that. I gave my reasons and I then asked you whether you thought it was bull shit. You said that the new stadium was a possibility but unlikely.
'Fraid it's you talking absolute shit as per usual.
