School Protests

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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That’s not why my Christian faith has evolved. It’s because I believe that Jesus showed us the way of love and some of the Christian faith is about power and judgement. These tenents are very difficult to hold together. In fact I think they’re Impossible. I don’t just mean lovey love I mean a love that dies for its friends am considered extremely liberal at my church. I believe on this day of all days that even when I was still far off god met me in his son Jesus and brought me home. Dying and living he declared his love and once I understood that was the same for all creation it changed my desire to go to church for myself. I know how far from perfect I am and my aim is to live life to reflect the man I’ve read about. I fail constantly as you can all attest but the thought that the Christian faith has broadly changed its beliefs through rejection is only part of the story in my experience. Again the vast majority of Muslims are good honourable men and women who want to live good lives blessing their communities and seeing their children succeed and have families that succeed. There are monsters in all religions and none
It wasn't aimed at everyone religious. I'm sure many people who are do so because it gives them comfort from their greatest fears. It can cause a great amount of good in the world as well and there are many followers who do so because they want things to be better. Of course there will also be people with that mindset who will get things wrong and unintentionally make things worse.

Trouble is often those that have the biggest say and rise to the top echelons are there due to their own personal ambition and therefore will say and do whatever is necessary to maintain power.

Politics is the new religion - the activists etc are there trying to do things for what they believe is the good of everyone. Most of those in the corridors of power are there for themselves, either because that was always their intention or because they get disillusioned with the entire thing and just decide to get as much as they can out of it having felt they've wasted their time trying to make an actual difference.
 

Sky Blue Pete

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Literal interpretation of the Bible and Qu’ran is what leads people to do insane things in the belief it’s the word of the almighty. I know that if religion weren’t around there would be other snake oil salesmen but Gervais put it best when he said that atheists ‘don’t have nothing to die for but everything to live for’. Sadly there is no such introspection from all of those who dedicated their energy on getting a young teacher sacked, imprisoned or worse for at worst being naive.
Thats so right!!!! As christians we hardly look at Jesus life and focus on his birth and death. I know if you don’t accept he existed that sounds foolish
 

Sky Blue Pete

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It wasn't aimed at everyone religious. I'm sure many people who are do so because it gives them comfort from their greatest fears. It can cause a great amount of good in the world as well and there are many followers who do so because they want things to be better. Of course there will also be people with that mindset who will get things wrong and unintentionally make things worse.

Trouble is often those that have the biggest say and rise to the top echelons are there due to their own personal ambition and therefore will say and do whatever is necessary to maintain power.

Politics is the new religion - the activists etc are there trying to do things for what they believe is the good of everyone. Most of those in the corridors of power are there for themselves, either because that was always their intention or because they get disillusioned with the entire thing and just decide to get as much as they can out of it having felt they've wasted their time trying to make an actual difference.
Sorry wasn’t feeling hot at just made me think about why
 

Brighton Sky Blue

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Thats so right!!!! As christians we hardly look at Jesus life and focus on his birth and death. I know if you don’t accept he existed that sounds foolish
I accept that he probably did exist, but I don’t believe in the resurrection, literally feeding the 5000, immaculate conception and so on. Where I get insulted as an atheist is the belief that I must not have a moral compass just because I don’t have the Bible or another text to guide me.
 
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Sky Blue Pete

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I accept that he probably did exist, but I don’t believe in the resurrection, literally feeding the 5000, immaculate conception and so on. Where I get insulted as an atheist is the belief that I must not have a moral compass just because I don’t have the Bible or another text to guide me.
Me too
 

Ian1779

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I accept that he probably did exist, but I don’t believe in the resurrection, literally feeding the 5000, immaculate conception and so on. Where I get insulted as an atheist is the belief that I must not have a moral compass just because I don’t have the Bible or another text to guide me.
There was definitely a bloke called Jesus kicking around that part of the world 2000 years ago, it was too common a name not to be, and too many independent accounts from unconnected sources. All that other stuff however...
 

mrtrench

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Somewhere between the waitress and her table.
Politics is the new religion - the activists etc are there trying to do things for what they believe is the good of everyone.
Interesting, there is an article in this week's Spectator making the same point. I have no problem with anyone believing anything they wish, be it their God or Critical Race Theory. I have a big problem when they start believing that what they think is so important that it has to be forced upon everyone else. Absolutely fine with them talking about it, so long as when it's on the country's public broadcaster there are other voices to express alternative opinions (which often isn't the case IMO).

I'm also fine with peaceful and respectful protest to bring their opinions to the public's attention. I'm not fine when, for example, ER deliberately try to lockdown London, or BLM burns down Portland.
 

shmmeee

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Interesting, there is an article in this week's Spectator making the same point. I have no problem with anyone believing anything they wish, be it their God or Critical Race Theory. I have a big problem when they start believing that what they think is so important that it has to be forced upon everyone else. Absolutely fine with them talking about it, so long as when it's on the country's public broadcaster there are other voices to express alternative opinions (which often isn't the case IMO).

I'm also fine with peaceful and respectful protest to bring their opinions to the public's attention. I'm not fine when, for example, ER deliberately try to lockdown London, or BLM burns down Portland.
Peaceful protest doesn’t work though TBF. Personally I think protesting about the fact we’re destroying everyone’s only life support system is about as important as it gets. More so than just a dictatorship or whatever. Yet many would support insurrection under a dictatorship but not being a bit late for work because of climate protests, it’s an interesting distinction that rests on what society’s norms are at that time.

There’s no balanced voice to the weird fringe libertarian economic theory the BBC push as fact, or many other things. I wonder if some of this isn’t just us oldies now being on the wrong side of social change. People said about MLK exactly what you say about BLM, about the suffragettes exactly what you say about XR.
 
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mrtrench

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Somewhere between the waitress and her table.
Peaceful protest doesn’t work though TBF.
Gandhi? Suffragettes? Rosa Parks? Berlin Wall? Mandela after his arrest? What doesn't work is violent protest: unless you have greater military power or get lucky (Winter Palace 1917) everyone will dig their heels in, in defiance of the disciples causing mayhem. Despite the best efforts of the IRA, NI still exists. And no matter how long the jihad continues, the West is never going to become an Islamic State. XR's antics alienate them to the majority of the population. Over 54% oppose and only 13% strongly support. 13% is exactly the same proportion of the population which agrees that problematic statues should be destroyed. I suspect the intersect of these two sets is pretty big.

Personally I think protesting about the fact we’re destroying everyone’s only life support system is about as important as it gets. More so than just a dictatorship or whatever.
That's your opinion. My opinion on XR clearly differs to yours. I see it as a political movement using what seems like reasonable aims to force through political goals with which I cannot agree. IMO, if carbon generation needs to reduce then private companies and capitalism is the very best way to do it. It's just another socialist movement, this time of the Pol Pot flavour.

Nevertheless, if it's OK for XR to disrupt society, then the precedent is set... it's OK for Britain First; the US Gun Lobby etc. to do so. For every cause you think is justified there will be more political religions you don't like. And life for non-activists would be hell if they all got the green light.
 

Evo1883

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I accept that he probably did exist, but I don’t believe in the resurrection, literally feeding the 5000, immaculate conception and so on. Where I get insulted as an atheist is the belief that I must not have a moral compass just because I don’t have the Bible or another text to guide me.
Atheism makes sense , religion does not
 

dubed

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Atheism is a religion, IMO. Atheists believe with certainty that there is no God. Prove it.

IMO, Agnosticism makes sense.
Incorrect, false and wrong, all in a line.
 

Evo1883

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Atheism is a religion, IMO. Atheists believe with certainty that there is no God. Prove it.

IMO, Agnosticism makes sense.
Which God did the dinosaurs follow, I jest ..I mean according to religion earth is only what ...a few thousand years old ?


There is ZERO scientific evidence that a God exists ...there are plenty of scientific theories that debunk religious beliefs
 

mrtrench

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Somewhere between the waitress and her table.
Which God did the dinosaurs follow, I jest ..I mean according to religion earth is only what ...a few thousand years old ?


There is ZERO scientific evidence that a God exists ...there are plenty of scientific theories that debunk religious beliefs

There is also zero scientific evidence that God does not exist.
 

shmmeee

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Atheism is a religion, IMO. Atheists believe with certainty that there is no God. Prove it.

IMO, Agnosticism makes sense.
Agnosticism is some fence sitting bullshit. What else do you pontificate on the existence of without any evidence at all an significant evidence to the contrary?

All knowledge is belief, but religion is way past the same threshold we use every day for other stuff. Thinking the sun will come up tomorrow based on the preponderance of evidence doesn’t meant you have a religious belief in the sun.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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Interesting, there is an article in this week's Spectator making the same point. I have no problem with anyone believing anything they wish, be it their God or Critical Race Theory. I have a big problem when they start believing that what they think is so important that it has to be forced upon everyone else. Absolutely fine with them talking about it, so long as when it's on the country's public broadcaster there are other voices to express alternative opinions (which often isn't the case IMO).

I'm also fine with peaceful and respectful protest to bring their opinions to the public's attention. I'm not fine when, for example, ER deliberately try to lockdown London, or BLM burns down Portland.
If that dig is at the 'leftie' BBC I'd like to point out how much time they've (not) spent on all the mistakes made in govt during the pandemic and basically towing the govt line. Also how little time they've spent on the corruption like Jenryk, Patel, Arcuri, Hancock and PPE contracts etc, and how little time they've spent asking where the supposed racism report in the Tories we were promised at the last election is or asking questions about internal reports on racism, Johnson's conduct, Grenfell etc that remarkably always absolve them of any wrongdoing. Also how Farage made so many QT appearances and their political editor is more effective than the Tory press office.

Also notice in that last bit you missed off right-wing nutcases falling for an absolutely batshit crazy conspiracy theory storming the WH or any of the far-right protests in London that resulted in violence.
 
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Evo1883

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Scientifically speaking, you start from a theory. A theory is more than an idea, it requires significant amount of supporting material. If you just have a God claim, you have no theory and then the burden of proof is on you

Show me your proof god exists and we can break it down and dismantle it quite comfortably
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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Gandhi? Suffragettes? Rosa Parks? Berlin Wall? Mandela after his arrest? What doesn't work is violent protest: unless you have greater military power or get lucky (Winter Palace 1917) everyone will dig their heels in, in defiance of the disciples causing mayhem. Despite the best efforts of the IRA, NI still exists. And no matter how long the jihad continues, the West is never going to become an Islamic State. XR's antics alienate them to the majority of the population. Over 54% oppose and only 13% strongly support. 13% is exactly the same proportion of the population which agrees that problematic statues should be destroyed. I suspect the intersect of these two sets is pretty big.



That's your opinion. My opinion on XR clearly differs to yours. I see it as a political movement using what seems like reasonable aims to force through political goals with which I cannot agree. IMO, if carbon generation needs to reduce then private companies and capitalism is the very best way to do it. It's just another socialist movement, this time of the Pol Pot flavour.

Nevertheless, if it's OK for XR to disrupt society, then the precedent is set... it's OK for Britain First; the US Gun Lobby etc. to do so. For every cause you think is justified there will be more political religions you don't like. And life for non-activists would be hell if they all got the green light.
Suffragettes came to prominence and gained a voice when they ended peaceful protest and started bombing shops and attacking MP's. Althouogh admittedly the think that arguably got them the vote was WWi and them proving they could do a man's job just as well while they were fighting in the trenches.

And you may not have noticed but the US gun lobby, Britain First etc have disrupted society regularly with violence or the threat of it. I don't remember XR or BLM forming vigilante groups armed with AR-15's?
 
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TomRad85

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Atheism makes sense , religion does not
Of course religion makes sense, for most of human existence life was very short and very hard, its pretty normal to think that people would want to believe there was more than that.

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Evo1883

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Of course religion makes sense, for most of human existence life was very short and very hard, its pretty normal to think that people would want to believe there was more than that.

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Believing that this "can't just be it " isn't scientific proof of a god .
And telling people that there is a higher being whilst making copious amounts of money (yes even back then), to ease their worries, does not make it make sense
 

Brighton Sky Blue

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Of course religion makes sense, for most of human existence life was very short and very hard, its pretty normal to think that people would want to believe there was more than that.

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I guess if you scrapped religion and science tomorrow, and people had to start from scratch, you might get a whole crop of different religions but the science discovered would ultimately end up being the same. For me that's the best endorsement of science there is
 

Evo1883

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People back then must have shit themselves when the earth shook , or the waves lashed , or a tsunami came to land...the winds turned into a tornado or when the fire came out of the mountain .

They were told they were being punished ... live a lie long enough you believe it
 
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TomRad85

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Believing that this "can't just be it " isn't scientific proof of a god .
And telling people that there is a higher being whilst making copious amounts of money (yes even back then), to ease their worries, does not make it make sense
I didn't say it was scientific proof. You said religion doesn't make sense, I'm telling you for a creature as self aware as a human being it makes perfect sense to want to believe that there is more.

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Evo1883

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I didn't say it was scientific proof. You said religion doesn't make sense, I'm telling you for a creature as self aware as a human being it makes perfect sense to want to believe that there is more.

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It's emotional desperation really .
 

Brighton Sky Blue

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I didn't say it was scientific proof. You said religion doesn't make sense, I'm telling you for a creature as self aware as a human being it makes perfect sense to want to believe that there is more.

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Of course, but believing that this is all there is means you don't take any day for granted.
 

TomRad85

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People back then must have shit themselves when the earth shook , or the waves lashed , or a tsunami came to land...the winds turned into a tornado or when the fire came out of the mountain .

They were told they were being punished ... live a lie long enough you believe it
Well of course they believed it, as would you if you were around at the time.

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Evo1883

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Well of course they believed it, as would you if you were around at the time.

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Exactly ...but today is not then and we are surely educated enough to move past this fairytale
 

TomRad85

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Exactly ...but today is not then and we are surely educated enough to move past this fairytale
Probably, but even now with all we know its fairly reasonable to think that many people don't want to think they just become worm food. If it doesn't impose on anyone it's no harm is it.
The only question is, does it hold science back? I don't think it does anymore, certainly not in the west.

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Evo1883

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Probably, but even now with all we know its fairly reasonable to think that many people don't want to think they just become worm food. If it doesn't impose on anyone it's no harm is it.
The only question is, does it hold science back? I don't think it does anymore, certainly not in the west.

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No I don't think it holds science back , it holds people back
 
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dubed

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Has anybody been watching 'Pligrimage' on BBC. I found it a gentle, warm and relaxing watch. I'm with Dom Jolly, that you can't beat a bit of Sufism. Enchanting.




(yes, we've all seen the Chas n Dave version....)