Rudoni

[fernandopartridge]

South London does produce a hell of a lot of footballers, wonder why that is?

 

[Viktor17]

South London does produce a hell of a lot of footballers, wonder why that is?

Numbers game / concentration of kids circa 700k under 18 in South London.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

South London does produce a hell of a lot of footballers, wonder why that is?

There is a cultural element to this because of the development of ‘cage football’ which is developing tough, technically gifted players. It’s our version of ‘futsal’ culture in Brazil and how players developed in the favelas.

 

[stupot07]

London has the highest concentration of professional football clubs in the world. It stands to reason there will be better scouting as it's easier to go and see multiple games in a day, their tends to be a heavier presence at strong grassroots games and linked leagues, so more opportunities to pick players up at all stages of a youngsters development. Once you're in an academy, your development will rocket compared to players who have been overlooked because there isn't the same network out there. And there are academies and clubs at all levels meaning you're more likely to be hoovered back up and get a second chance at another potentially lesser club if your get released. In the midlands their are less scouts covering a large area, relying on club recommendations and going to tournaments.

Plus there are more kids in a smaller geographically areas, meaning their top grassroots level pushing up standards that will be higher than most over areas. For example U15s Cov A league is rubbish, a load of the teams either played up a year or left to play in Birmingham.

PL
- Arsenal
- Brentford
- Chelsea
- Crystal Palace
- Fulham
- Tottenham
- West Ham (relegated)

Champ
- Millwall
- QPR
- Charlton

L1
- AFC Wimbledon
- Leyton Orient

L2
- Barnet
- Bromley

National League
- Dagenham & Redbridge
- Sutton United
- Wealdstone

Plus another 80+ semi pro teams under that, and a number of clubs based just outside of London.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

London has the highest concentration of professional football clubs in the world. It stands to reason there will be better scouting as it's easier to go and see multiple games in a day, their tends to be a heavier presence at strong grassroots games and linked leagues, so more opportunities to pick players up at all stages of a youngsters development. Once you're in an academy, your development will rocket compared to players who have been overlooked because there isn't the same network out there. And there are academies and clubs at all levels meaning you're more likely to be hoovered back up and get a second chance at another potentially lesser club if your get released. In the midlands their are less scouts covering a large area, relying on club recommendations and going to tournaments.

Plus there are more kids in a smaller geographically areas, meaning their top grassroots level pushing up standards that will be higher than most over areas. For example U15s Cov A league is rubbish, a load of the teams either played up a year or left to play in Birmingham.

PL
- Arsenal
- Brentford
- Chelsea
- Crystal Palace
- Fulham
- Tottenham
- West Ham (relegated)

Champ
- Millwall
- QPR
- Charlton

L1
- AFC Wimbledon
- Leyton Orient

L2
- Barnet
- Bromley

National League
- Dagenham & Redbridge
- Sutton United
- Wealdstone

Plus another 80+ semi pro teams under that, and a number of clubs based just outside of London.

V good point and most European capitals have 2 massive teams as opposed to having 6-10 big clubs:
1 Berlin club historically, Union Berlin v much the junior club
2 Parisian clubs (PSG a merger and Paris FC a newcomer)
2 Roman clubs + 2 Milan clubs
2 Madrid clubs + Barcelona clubs

The only comparable capital is probably Moscow - half the Russian prem teams are Moscow based.

 

[Skyblue Bangkok]

V good point and most European capitals have 2 massive teams as opposed to having 6-10 big clubs:
1 Berlin club historically, Union Berlin v much the junior club
2 Parisian clubs (PSG a merger and Paris FC a newcomer)
2 Roman clubs + 2 Milan clubs
2 Madrid clubs + Barcelona clubs

The only comparable capital is probably Moscow - half the Russian prem teams are Moscow based.

Mondevideo in Uruguay ,has 23 teams in their first and second division based in the city.

 

[Shannerz]

2 Madrid clubs

Poor overlooked Rayo Vallecano.

By far the most interesting Madrid club, too.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Argentina premier league has mostly Buenos Aires sides

 

[MCCFCGA]

Poor overlooked Rayo Vallecano.

By far the most interesting Madrid club, too.

Getafe and Leganés too

 

[Offhegoes]

Numbers game / concentration of kids circa 700k under 18 in South London.

JDS (although born in Luton) and Kasey Palmer were part of that South London youth football scene. A lot of cage football. You can tell, both have amazing technique

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Poor overlooked Rayo Vallecano.

By far the most interesting Madrid club, too.

My bad! I thought they were like Getafe and Leganes who are part of the ‘community of Madrid’ in the same way Salford is part of ‘greater Manchester’.

Rayo Vallecano are an interesting team, their kit and badge is unique.

 

[fernandopartridge]

V good point and most European capitals have 2 massive teams as opposed to having 6-10 big clubs:
1 Berlin club historically, Union Berlin v much the junior club
2 Parisian clubs (PSG a merger and Paris FC a newcomer)
2 Roman clubs + 2 Milan clubs
2 Madrid clubs + Barcelona clubs

The only comparable capital is probably Moscow - half the Russian prem teams are Moscow based.

Hertha Berlin?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Hertha Berlin?

They’re not in the top league and haven’t since relegation in 22/23, 7th last season.

Union Berlin made their Bundesliga debut in 2019 but in fairness… For the majority of the 20th Century Berlin was split between two states. Even so Cologne (largest city in West Germany, pre-unification) has 1 major team.

English football seems to be an outlier in the sense that we have a lot more 2 football club cities compared to other countries.

 

[wingy]

It's clearly not a sufficient number as they continue to poach our youngsters!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

V good point and most European capitals have 2 massive teams as opposed to having 6-10 big clubs:
1 Berlin club historically, Union Berlin v much the junior club
2 Parisian clubs (PSG a merger and Paris FC a newcomer)
2 Roman clubs + 2 Milan clubs
2 Madrid clubs + Barcelona clubs

The only comparable capital is probably Moscow - half the Russian prem teams are Moscow based.

Of course Lisbon with two and our own gruesome twosome in Glasgow.

I think it just reflects that England generally is more football mad than anywhere else in Europe where other sports are more competitive, eg basketball/handball/ice hockey etc.

Germany is a bit more complex as a lot of clubs were shut down after WW2 and single clubs emerged as the ‘accepted’ successors. In the former East you had the regime essentially hand picking which clubs were acceptable. So you have a smaller number of generally very well supported teams.

 

[Sick Boy]

V good point and most European capitals have 2 massive teams as opposed to having 6-10 big clubs:
1 Berlin club historically, Union Berlin v much the junior club
2 Parisian clubs (PSG a merger and Paris FC a newcomer)
2 Roman clubs + 2 Milan clubs
2 Madrid clubs + Barcelona clubs

The only comparable capital is probably Moscow - half the Russian prem teams are Moscow based.

Isn’t London considerably bigger than all of those cities?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Isn’t London considerably bigger than all of those cities?

London's population is larger than more than a few European countries.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Isn’t London considerably bigger than all of those cities?

Yes, that’s correct compared to Madrid/Berlin but the metro area of Paris is only slightly smaller by 1-2m in terms of population compared to London. Yet there’s still a lot more professional football teams.

 

[Sick Boy]

Yes, that’s correct compared to Madrid/Berlin but the metro area of Paris is only slightly smaller by 1-2m in terms of population compared to London. Yet there’s still a lot more professional football teams.

I’m pretty sure that teams in France turned professional much later than the UK, which may explain it.

 

[Sick Boy]

I think it just reflects that England generally is more football mad than anywhere else in Europe where other sports are more competitive, eg basketball/handball/ice hockey etc.

I don’t think that’s true at all. It’s probably more likely related the Industrial Revolution with teams being set up by factories, for example.

 

[Shannerz]

I think it just reflects that England generally is more football mad than anywhere else in Europe where other sports are more competitive, eg basketball/handball/ice hockey etc.

Is that true, or is it more that people are more inclined to follow smaller, local teams in England than they are elsewhere?

Lower leagues don't get the same support elsewhere as they do in England. Don't some ridiculous percentage of Italian football fans, for example, claim to support Juventus?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don’t think that’s true at all. It’s probably more likely related the Industrial Revolution with teams being set up by factories, for example.

I’d argue the depth in full time clubs we have going down 5 divisions with attendances still in the thousands supports what I’m saying.

 

[Sick Boy]

I’d argue the depth in full time clubs we have going down 5 divisions with attendances still in the thousands supports what I’m saying.

I don’t think football is more popular now than it was 30-40 years ago when attendances weren’t what they are today. There’s been a major shift around attending matches in the UK where it’s become more inclusive, which is a good thing, and it’s also increased attendances.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don’t think football is more popular now than it was 30-40 years ago when attendances weren’t what they are today. There’s been a major shift around attending matches in the UK where it’s become more inclusive, which is a good thing, and it’s also increased attendances.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I’m pretty sure that teams in France turned professional much later than the UK, which may explain it.

The football pyramid is much larger in England. We have 5 national leagues (National League will become League 3 at some point) and in Italy, Germany, Spain and France, the leagues become regional after the top 2 or 3 divisions.

There are specific contexts to bear in mind, England is geographically smaller and more centralised compared to Spain and Germany. I have no idea why France’s football pyramid has only just expanded to a 3rd professional league. Even their Rugby Union pyramid had 2 fully professional leagues and the sport only went pro in the 90s. France’s Ligue 3 is a new professional division from 26/27.

 

[Lamps]

The football pyramid is much larger in England. We have 5 national leagues (National League will become League 3 at some point) and in Italy, Germany, Spain and France, the leagues become regional after the top 2 or 3 divisions.

There are specific contexts to bear in mind, England is geographically smaller and more centralised compared to Spain and Germany. I have no idea why France’s football pyramid has only just expanded to a 3rd professional league. Even their Rugby Union pyramid had 2 fully professional leagues and the sport only went pro in the 90s. France’s Ligue 3 is a new professional division from 26/27.

Football isn't massive in France like it is in England. Our nearest professional club is a couple of hours away. My little boy is at the equivalent of college and most of the boys follow PSG which is about 4 hours away. Hunting is a lot bigger over a lot of France.

Where I live we have a football team and a cricket team. I play for the cricket team. Although most don't understand the rules of cricket we're much better supported than the football team. We have a big game in the morning against Poitiers. There will be a marquee with an all day bar. Our opponents are all from countries from Asia and are under half our age.

The big disadvantage for sport in France is the size of the country. A return journey could be as much as 24 hours without the event itself.