Rebecca Long-Bailey sacked (1 Viewer)

David O'Day · Jun 25, 2020

Salford and Eccles is a very different north to what people call the "red wall". It's a Greater Manchester seat.

A lot of the "red wall" will slide back to Labour at the next election. As was said it was the appalling brexit fudge that did for them and even then with a few exceptions they are wafer thin majorities for the Tories.

I do feel sorry for RLB as she was forced into being the face of the Labour left when she didn't really want to be this due to Laura Pidcock losing her seat.

shmmeee · Jun 25, 2020

Ian1779 said:
Treading very carefully here..... there is a correlation between those that support Palestinian rights and those that are supposedly ‘vehement anti-semites’

And there’s a correlation between pro Israel and islamophobia. It’s a shitty battle all round and frankly if I were a U.K. politician I’d stay well out of it outside any official peace process.

Nick · Jun 25, 2020

shmmeee said:
Point is you wouldn’t be sacked for racism you’d be sacked for gross misconduct or bringing the company into disrepute or whatever. The Equality Act and hate speech laws set a certain bar but real life’s bar is far lower. And far harder to discern where the line is. It’s basically “are enough people offended?”

Yeah and I'd get a nice payoff.

shmmeee · Jun 25, 2020

Nick said:
Yeah and I'd get a nice payoff.

How many people sacked because of media storms get a pay off? You reckon the White Lives Matter guy will?

Grendel · Jun 25, 2020

Nick said:
Is it criticism if it's fact?

The world is gone.

No it hasn’t as one faction of the Labour Party will always attack anything to do with Israel but have zero interest anywhere else in the Middle East - and oddly it’s only the Corbyn faction - who supported the terrorist group Hammas - which indulge in this. It goes back to the early 80’s when the hard left wing saw the Jews as symbols of capitalism and that section have never grown up

Grendel · Jun 25, 2020

shmmeee said:
And there’s a correlation between pro Israel and islamophobia. It’s a shitty battle all round and frankly if I were a U.K. politician I’d stay well out of it outside any official peace process.

Yes that’s really the point

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 25, 2020

Mucca Mad Boys said:
Exactly, and in the eyes of the electorate, Corbyn failed just about every leadership test.

I was getting fed up with his dithering on Brexit, but it was disheartening when ‘we’ seemingly kept scoring own goals every other week.

Agreeing to the election was stupid
Brexit handling was a disaster
Trying to make ever more outlandish policies to deflect from Brexit made them look more stupid

Even I had a very hard time voting for them to be honest. It was infuriating though hearing some voters up north say they voted Tory because they were sick of there being no opportunities or investment in their towns/villages. Then afterwards Boris spoke like 'well now we're going to have to give a shit about these places'.

Bargh

Ian1779 · Jun 25, 2020

Mucca Mad Boys said:
I don’t really see how keeping RLB fits this well? Brexit was a pertinent issue, but the Red Wall is generally socially conservative too. In the minds of voters, RLB represents a continuation of Corbyn. The Red Wall very decisively rejected that offering.

There are a lot of factors contributing to Labour’s crushing defeat. Brexit was a big factor, obviously, Labour lost a lot of votes to ‘remain’ parties as well as ‘leave’ parties. But, the electorate generally didn’t believe the Labour manifesto was deliverable or credible, and by every metric, Corbyn was behind Cameron, May and Johnson. The anti-semitism scandal was hugely damaging to Labour and Corbyn.

That said, there were individual policies that were in the manifesto that were popular, but the policy programme as a whole was not received well.

The same red wall that just 2 years before had not only held but in some seats started to re-strengthen. Brexit was the overriding issue - out of the 56 seats lost - 52 were leave constituencies. Even the other 4 - 2 were lost because the Remain vote was split between with the Tories coming through the middle.

Most of Labour’s policies would have had an overwhelmingly positive effect on their lives, so are we now getting into the effectiveness of creating a narrative against Corbyn and his version of Labour?

That said - the leadership should have seen this coming and done something about it. A party that smashed the Tories in 2017 in terms of social media got absolutely pummelled in the same forum 2 years later. It was a shambles on that front.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jun 25, 2020

Jewish lives matter.

Is that progressive or offensive?

World is getting more mad!

Nick · Jun 25, 2020

shmmeee said:
How many people sacked because of media storms get a pay off? You reckon the White Lives Matter guy will?

Not too sure it's on the same scale as me saying people in Jamaica smoke weed, is it?

Grendel · Jun 25, 2020

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Jewish lives matter.

Is that progressive or offensive?

World is getting more mad!

The majority of Jewish groups in the uk would view this as another example of racism - it’s interesting the majority Jewish voice is less important than the majority black voice with certain labour supporters

Nick · Jun 25, 2020

Grendel said:
The majority of Jewish groups in the uk would view this as another example of racism - it’s interesting the majority Jewish voice is less important than the majority black voice with certain labour supporters

Shalom

They would find a fact, racist? I mean it's not a conspiracy either as made out.

TomRad85 · Jun 25, 2020

Nick said:
Shalom

They would find a fact, racist? I mean it's not a conspiracy either as made out.

Wasn't necessary to bring them into it at all i think is the point. Its irrelevant.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

David O'Day · Jun 25, 2020

Genuinely I think it's racist for non Jewish people decide what is "AS". It's also morally repugnant to try and waeponise AS. The people I know in the JLM don't see this as AS. As I said it gets dangerous when start to call an critique of the actions of the state of Israel AS. It's wrong and it damages the valid attempts to tackle AS.

It also seems the EHRC is a fundraiser for the tory party which she didn't declare.

Ian1779 · Jun 25, 2020

Grendel said:
The majority of Jewish groups in the uk would view this as another example of racism - it’s interesting the majority Jewish voice is less important than the majority black voice with certain labour supporters

The Jewish community can’t even decide between them which voice ‘represents’ them. The BoD have claimed that position but it’s far from agreed.

David O'Day · Jun 25, 2020

Ian1779 said:
The Jewish community can’t even decide between them which voice ‘represents’ them. The BoD have claimed that position but it’s far from agreed.

The terms "Self hating Jew" and "Wrong kind of jew" get thrown around a lot

Nick · Jun 25, 2020

TomRad85 said:
Wasn't necessary to bring them into it at all i think is the point. Its irrelevant.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

She didn't, she retweeted an article saying the knee move and Israeli special forces. Which... It is.

It's not a conspiracy, it's fact they train police.

If it's offensive to say that, maybe they should stop training police?

clint van damme · Jun 25, 2020

David O'Day said:
The terms "Self hating Jew" and "Wrong kind of jew" get thrown around a lot

Useful Jewish idiot is what Dan Hodges called Michael Rosen.

David O'Day · Jun 25, 2020

clint van damme said:
Useful Jewish idiot is what Dan Hodges called Michael Rosen.

Which is AS in itself.

SkyBlueDom26 · Jun 25, 2020

Oh dear a member of Corbyn’s team, anyone else shocked?

Fair play to Keir for getting rid of her

David O'Day · Jun 25, 2020

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Oh dear a member of Corbyn’s team, anyone else shocked?

Read what people have been saying you freak.

Dom is the kind of person who is part of the problem. Dom doesn't give a shit about AS and will omly care when he can use it politically.

SkyBlueDom26 · Jun 25, 2020

David O'Day said:
Read what people have been saying you freak.

Dom is the kind of person who is part of the problem. Dom doesn't give a shit about AS and will omly care when he can use it politically.

Maybe open your eyes and read what I put underneath

David O'Day · Jun 25, 2020

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Maybe open your eyes and read what I put underneath

I did and I find you to be a c**t as you don't even know what the story is.

RLB as not said anything that is AS. It's the retweeting of something critical of Israel w1hich made up about 10 words in an interview given by someone else.

When you actually care about bigotry to jewish people please come back.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 25, 2020

David O'Day said:
Genuinely I think it's racist for non Jewish people decide what is "AS". It's also morally repugnant to try and waeponise AS. The people I know in the JLM don't see this as AS. As I said it gets dangerous when start to call an critique of the actions of the state of Israel AS. It's wrong and it damages the valid attempts to tackle AS.

It also seems the EHRC is a fundraiser for the tory party which she didn't declare.

I agree much of the trouble with this is that Israel deciding what is anti-Semitic have basically said anything that criticises Israel or Netanyahu counts. Israel has itself weaponised AS by using it as a defence against their actions in the region. It becomes the boy that cried wolf and when genuine AS occurs they've lost sympathy and support.

With RLB it would seem convenient for Starmer to get rid of the remaining Corbyn faction and it may seem a bit harsh, but it shows a leader willing to take quick and decisive action esp on a subject which so many are willing to drag up against Labour. He had no choice but to do it really (although I've no doubt there will be some saying the sacking proves Labour has a massive AS problem) Compare and contrast to how the Tories acted with Cummings and are doing so with Jenryk.

Of course the big question is how Starmer responds should it be someone more closely aligned to him next time

SkyBlueDom26 · Jun 25, 2020

David O'Day said:
I did and I find you to be a c**t as you don't even know what the story is.

RLB as not said anything that is AS. It's the retweeting of something critical of Israel w1hich made up about 10 words in an interview given by someone else.

When you actually care about bigotry to jewish people please come back.

She’s literally been told to step down by keir for retweeting something AS, are you really that stupid?

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 25, 2020

SkyBlueDom26 said:
She’s literally been told to step down by keir for retweeting something AS, are you really that stupid?

Do you think the sentence in question is AS?

David O'Day · Jun 25, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I agree much of the trouble with this is that Israel deciding what is anti-Semitic have basically said anything that criticises Israel or Netanyahu counts. Israel has itself weaponised AS by using it as a defence against their actions in the region. It becomes the boy that cried wolf and when genuine AS occurs they've lost sympathy and support.

With RLB it would seem convenient for Starmer to get rid of the remaining Corbyn faction and it may seem a bit harsh, but it shows a leader willing to take quick and decisive action esp on a subject which so many are willing to drag up against Labour. He had no choice but to do it really (although I've no doubt there will be some saying the sacking proves Labour has a massive AS problem) Compare and contrast to how the Tories acted with Cummings and are doing so with Jenryk.

Of course the big question is how Starmer responds should it be someone more closely aligned to him next time

If RLB had actually been AS then yes but what she did was retweet a interview with one of the most famous actresses in the UK who happens to be her constituent. It cheapens the very real need to tackle AS wherever it maybe.

David O'Day · Jun 25, 2020

SkyBlueDom26 said:
She’s literally been told to step down by keir for retweeting something AS, are you really that stupid?

Explain why criticism of the state of Israel and their actions is AS?

Care to explain why what Maxine Peake said was in your view AS?

David O'Day · Jun 25, 2020

Dom isn't going to explain to us why what Maxine Peake said was AS is he?

chiefdave · Jun 25, 2020

Nick said:
If it's offensive to say that, maybe they should stop training police?

At least one place in the US (Durham, North Carolina) has gone down that route:

"The council opposes international exchanges with any country in which Durham officers receive military-style training since such exchanges do not support the kind of policing we want here in the City of Durham. We recognize and share the deep concern about militarization of police forces around the country. We know that racial profiling and its subsequent harms to communities of color have plagued policing in our nation and in our own community."

Even that drew claims of anti-semitism, which were dismissed by a judge.

chiefdave · Jun 25, 2020

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Oh dear a member of Corbyn’s team, anyone else shocked?

Fair play to Keir for getting rid of her

You might want to check who appointed her.

Rebecca Long-Bailey has been appointed as the shadow education secretary following a Labour Party reshuffle by new leader Keir Starmer.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 25, 2020

David O'Day said:
If RLB had actually been AS then yes but what she did was retweet a interview with one of the most famous actresses in the UK who happens to be her constituent. It cheapens the very real need to tackle AS wherever it maybe.

He was damned if he did damned if he didn't. Had he not got rid of her he knows it would've been seized upon by the right as Labour anti-semitism continues. All words no action Despite it being a storm in a teacup

Grendel · Jun 25, 2020

chiefdave said:
You might want to check who appointed her.

Lol he has zero choice as he had to initially appease the unions and the left of the party

Liquid Gold · Jun 25, 2020

If this is his way then fair enough but he better be whiter than white on any other shadow cabinet member tweeting anything slightly dodgy.

skybluetony176 · Jun 25, 2020

The irony of this thread is that if a Labour MP had have even said Jehovah while JC was leader certain voices on here would be shouting stone him. Now KS is leader and taking decisive action over antisemitism some of the same voices are saying he’s being over zealous. Can’t win.

On the actual issue in hand yes of course it’s true that Israeli security forces train other countries security forces and indeed vice versa and of course pointing that out shouldn’t be contrived to be anti-semetic but my understanding is that the antisemitism isn’t acknowledging that fact it’s to insinuate that the Jews made the police officers kill George Floyd, or they told them that it was alright to kneel on his neck until the point of death.

Rebecca Long-Bailey sacked (1 Viewer)

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