clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Starmer needs to win back the northern 'red wall'.
He's sacked RLB and embroiled Maxine Peake in the controversy. I'm not sure this is going to appear as good as you think it is in some of the areas that matter.
Power is a game, and it was a very good power move. Sends a strong message on Labour dealing with anti-semifinals, and ‘disgraces’ a potential contender to his role down the line.
As a few people have alluded, appearances matter in politics. Something Corbyn never quite grasped (best case) or cared about (worst case) in his time as leader.
Starmer needs to win back the northern 'red wall'.
He's sacked RLB and embroiled Maxine Peake in the controversy. I'm not sure this is going to appear as good as you think it is in some of the areas that matter.
Starmer needs to win back the northern 'red wall'.
He's sacked RLB and embroiled Maxine Peake in the controversy. I'm not sure this is going to appear as good as you think it is in some of the areas that matter.
Myself agreeing with Nick is a rocking horse shit rarity, but he's spot on with this.
Bottom line, why is it only anti semitism when Israelis are criticised? Palestinians are Semitic people too and yet to condemn them is never described thus...
Is that anti semitism though? To condemn one and support the other of the same ethos equates to anti the lot of 'em doesn't make sense.Treading very carefully here..... there is a correlation between those that support Palestinian rights and those that are supposedly ‘vehement anti-semites’
Not sure how this is showing it quoting me...I didn't write this.it depends who you follow, I've got discerning tastes.
Starmer needs to win back the northern 'red wall'.
He's sacked RLB and embroiled Maxine Peake in the controversy. I'm not sure this is going to appear as good as you think it is in some of the areas that matter.
Is that anti semitism though? To condemn one and support the other of the same ethos equates to anti the lot of 'em doesn't make sense.
Anti Zionism all day long. The AS tag simply promotes an unwarranted hysteria, which is what it's designed to do in many instances.
I agree with you - but when you start to dig beyond the surface of what is a very complex situation then you start to see things like this occur. If I was to accuse the Israeli government of being an apartheid state (which it is) there would be some people saying that was anti-semitic (not on here mind) even though I’ve made no reference to religion whatsoever.
Sounds like North KoreaI agree with you - but when you start to dig beyond the surface of what is a very complex situation then you start to see things like this occur. If I was to accuse the Israeli government of being an apartheid state (which it is) there would be some people saying that was anti-semitic (not on here mind) even though I’ve made no reference to religion whatsoever.
All the more tragic that we've no politicians with the balls to make this distinction.I agree with you - but when you start to dig beyond the surface of what is a very complex situation then you start to see things like this occur. If I was to accuse the Israeli government of being an apartheid state (which it is) there would be some people saying that was anti-semitic (not on here mind) even though I’ve made no reference to religion whatsoever.
Perception?I don’t really see how this relates to ‘winning back’ the ‘Red Wall’.
Corbyn’s perceived inability to address the issue of antisemitism damaged his credibility beyond Jewish voters. A ComRes poll showed that 55% of those polled felt that it showed his inability to address antisemitism showed he was unfit to lead the country.
I supported Corbyn enthusiastically in 2015 until about 2018/19 and grew increasingly disillusioned with his leadership of the party, for various reasons. Still voted Labour in 2019.
Sounds like North Korea
This is way too complex an issue to be covering in a forum post and I'm possibly not the best person to do it but I'll try and point you in the right direction.But it's not actually offensive, nobody can explain how it's offensive.
All the more tragic that we've no politicians with the balls to make this distinction.
Probably fearful some Mossad agent's will off 'em with a neck kneel to be fair...
This is way too complex an issue to be covering in a forum post and I'm possibly not the best person to do it but I'll try and point you in the right direction.
When people talk about Labour anti-semitism, or indeed anti-semitism in general, they are bundling in anti-zionism. Not only that they are extending anti-zionism to include any criticism of the state of Israel.
What's the difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism?
For me that's a big part of the problem. To the man on the street with little interest in politics if you scream the headline Labour anti-semitism they imagine a Labour MP being anti-jew or even worse a Holocaust denier. They don't think its a Labour member who pays a few quid a month tweeting that Israelis shouldn't bomb Palestinians.
So then you're into the Israel - Palestine issue which has been going on for decades. This is a few years old now (2016) but a decent summary.
Now add in the Board of Deputies. They present themselves, and the majority of the media facilitate this, as the voice of all Jews. That's clearly nonsense and there's other Jewish groups with very different views but that doesn't matter when they have the ear of the media. They are pro-Zionism and are a key part of the Zionist Lobby in the UK (Israel lobby in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia).
They took issue with Corbyn as Labour leader as he has long been a supporter of Palenstine's right to exist and the 1967 borders, basically the borders before the six day war. That's not a controversial view, Obama gave speeches saying the same thing and the UN security Council has long stated that Israel’s settlements in Palestinian territory since 1967 are illegal and break international law. But that was when the claims of Labour anti-semitism went into overdrive and the current board leader, van Der Zyl, has pushed the idea that anti-zionism, or any criticism of Israel, is anti-Semitic.
If that wasn't enough enter Donald Trump! He's basically gone against the rest of the international community and stirred things up to the point that an Israeli invasion is expected any day now. Be interesting to see how Starmer, who pushes his human rights background, approaches that without upsetting the Board of Deputies.
Why Trump and Jerusalem was not about peace
Trump's Mideast plan gives Israel a green light. Here's what that looks like - CNN
Bet you wish you hadn't asked! Might well be others on here who can explain it better than me.
I don’t really see how this relates to ‘winning back’ the ‘Red Wall’.
Corbyn’s perceived inability to address the issue of antisemitism damaged his credibility beyond Jewish voters. A ComRes poll showed that 55% of those polled felt that it showed his inability to address antisemitism showed he was unfit to lead the country.
I supported Corbyn enthusiastically in 2015 until about 2018/19 and grew increasingly disillusioned with his leadership of the party, for various reasons. Still voted Labour in 2019.
It's going to be interesting if Labour is going win the North or the Midlands again.
Pretty obvious Labour supporters changed over to the Conservatives because they weren't being listened to over Europe.
Just can't see the Conservatives holding the majority of these seats they've won when it comes to the next election.
In Scotland there was a SNP that filled the gap of disillusionment when the only thing you could separate between the parties were the colour of their rosettes.
This is way too complex an issue to be covering in a forum post and I'm possibly not the best person to do it but I'll try and point you in the right direction.
When people talk about Labour anti-semitism, or indeed anti-semitism in general, they are bundling in anti-zionism. Not only that they are extending anti-zionism to include any criticism of the state of Israel.
What's the difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism?
For me that's a big part of the problem. To the man on the street with little interest in politics if you scream the headline Labour anti-semitism they imagine a Labour MP being anti-jew or even worse a Holocaust denier. They don't think its a Labour member who pays a few quid a month tweeting that Israelis shouldn't bomb Palestinians.
So then you're into the Israel - Palestine issue which has been going on for decades. This is a few years old now (2016) but a decent summary.
Now add in the Board of Deputies. They present themselves, and the majority of the media facilitate this, as the voice of all Jews. That's clearly nonsense and there's other Jewish groups with very different views but that doesn't matter when they have the ear of the media. They are pro-Zionism and are a key part of the Zionist Lobby in the UK (Israel lobby in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia).
They took issue with Corbyn as Labour leader as he has long been a supporter of Palenstine's right to exist and the 1967 borders, basically the borders before the six day war. That's not a controversial view, Obama gave speeches saying the same thing and the UN security Council has long stated that Israel’s settlements in Palestinian territory since 1967 are illegal and break international law. But that was when the claims of Labour anti-semitism went into overdrive and the current board leader, van Der Zyl, has pushed the idea that anti-zionism, or any criticism of Israel, is anti-Semitic.
If that wasn't enough enter Donald Trump! He's basically gone against the rest of the international community and stirred things up to the point that an Israeli invasion is expected any day now. Be interesting to see how Starmer, who pushes his human rights background, approaches that without upsetting the Board of Deputies.
Why Trump and Jerusalem was not about peace
Trump's Mideast plan gives Israel a green light. Here's what that looks like - CNN
Bet you wish you hadn't asked! Might well be others on here who can explain it better than me.
Too afraid to offend, speak up and you’re a racist - I don’t know.
This shit was tried with Sanders in America - difference was he came out guns blazing and stopped it in its tracks.
But you could see it coming a mile off after its success on Corbyn. Sanders responded the way Corbyn should have. He had 40 years of prominent anti-racist campaigning behind him. Not calling it out as bullshit allowed the narrative to be built and embed.He's Jewish to be fair it was always a bizarre allegation
But you could see it coming a mile off after its success on Corbyn. Sanders responded the way Corbyn should have. He had 40 years of prominent anti-racist campaigning behind him. Not calling it out as bullshit allowed the narrative to be built and embed.
Perception?
The red wall fell because of Labour’s appalling Brexit position, but it had been crumbling at the edges for a while.
What are they looking to see from a Labour leader that will win back their vote?
Labour can’t win without taking this back. Their offer needs to be transformative and radical - to make their lives and their kids lives better. It’s why they went for Brexit, it offered a change to the shite they’d been served for so long.
Yeah but it turns out police do use Israeli methods. Us police use krav maga.
It's not a conspiracy or offensive. Unless if you mention krav maga they come and fuck you up because it's imaginary and offensive to mention it?
It's a basic fact.
I don’t really see how keeping RLB fits this well? Brexit was a pertinent issue, but the Red Wall is generally socially conservative too. In the minds of voters, RLB represents a continuation of Corbyn. The Red Wall very decisively rejected that offering.
There are a lot of factors contributing to Labour’s crushing defeat. Brexit was a big factor, obviously, Labour lost a lot of votes to ‘remain’ parties as well as ‘leave’ parties. But, the electorate generally didn’t believe the Labour manifesto was deliverable or credible, and by every metric, Corbyn was behind Cameron, May and Johnson. The anti-semitism scandal was hugely damaging to Labour and Corbyn.
That said, there were individual policies that were in the manifesto that were popular, but the policy programme as a whole was not received well.
Thats irrelevant. Its criticism of Israel and that's all that matters.Yeah but it turns out police do use Israeli methods. Us police use krav maga.
The Tories have been publishing shit manifestos for ages and getting away with it. As G once said, it's hardly ever about policy
Is it criticism if it's fact?Thats irrelevant. Its criticism of Israel and that's all that matters.
Weak leadership.A more important question is why is Robert Jenrick still in a job.
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
I mean I could go and stand in court if it was an unfair dismissal case and ask questions about this particular situation and I'm thick as fuck.
You would think to get rid because of anti semetic stuff you would have to prove its anti semetic.
I mean, you would at least check if it was an anti semetic conspiracy theory before labelling it one wouldn't you? At least I can see where you get your love of labelling things conspiracy theory without checking.
If I said people in Jamaica smoke weed and my boss sacked me for racism. I'd be rubbing my hands together at the unfair dismissal claim coming my way.
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