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Oh Jeremy Corbyn (2 Viewers)

  • Thread starter torchomatic
  • Start date Sep 27, 2017
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clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 22, 2018
  • #1,331
mrtrench said:
Advocating a crime is different though isn't it? Just like someone attending a Eugenics conference and advocating genocide. But attending a conference on Paedophilia and discussing ways to stop children being harmed isn't wrong.
Click to expand...

The fella who was at this conference, was advocating a change in the laws regarding sex with children, so he wasn't advocating committing a crime but not what I'd want to be listening to.
To be clear, I don't think he was saying this at this eugenics conference but has put this opinion forward in other forums.
 

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 22, 2018
  • #1,332
Well no, I wouldn't want to associate myself with a person like that either.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 22, 2018
  • #1,333
Captain Dart said:
So how is this charging policy for a Labour conference justified?

View attachment 8891
Click to expand...
Because East Mids BAME are trying to increase participation from an under-represented section of the community. To do so they have received support enabling the price to be subsidised.
Why are the reduced rates for BAME members?
East Midlands BAME Labour recently successfully bid for support from the NEC to encourage participation from BAME members at events in the East Midlands
Click to expand...
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 22, 2018
  • #1,334
chiefdave said:
Because East Mids BAME are trying to increase participation from an under-represented section of the community. To do so they have received support enabling the price to be subsidised.
Click to expand...

Nonsense assumption black people can't afford this conference, frankly if you can pay £30 and want to go you can as well afford £40.

Anyway I thought discrimination over race was actually illegal?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 22, 2018
  • #1,335
mrtrench said:
Eugenics is an interesting topic. One that obviously has strong negative connotations because the Nazis and also one could argue Pol Pot used it alongside genocide, which I believe everyone here would condemn. However what if it were used, say, to ensure that children were born without sickle cell or other genetic issues? Would that necessarily be wrong?

I'm writing without very much understanding of the topic at all, so possibly others know much more (or possibly not if reading about it is abhorrent ).
Click to expand...

Sickle cell anaemia serves an odd advantage in some countries since it provides near total immunity towards malaria. Genetic engineering to prevent things like Huntington's chorea or cystic fibrosis is a different kettle of fish towards attempting to create a master race as the Nazis were hoping. As horrible as it sounds, the more we cheat death through scientific advances the faster we will ultimately make the planet uninhabitable. Speaking as a scientist that is difficult to admit but it is an unavoidable consequence of our progress in medicine especially.
 
Reactions: clint van damme

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2018
  • #1,336
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Genetic engineering to prevent things like Huntington's chorea or cystic fibrosis is a different kettle of fish towards attempting to create a master race as the Nazis were hoping.
Click to expand...

Why do you think that? Don't you think that people with cystic fibrosis would prefer to have been born without it? We have to separate the benefits of technology used responsibility from an emotional response to history. Hitler was a vegetarian; should we therefore all eat meat?

Brighton Sky Blue said:
As horrible as it sounds, the more we cheat death through scientific advances the faster we will ultimately make the planet uninhabitable. Speaking as a scientist that is difficult to admit but it is an unavoidable consequence of our progress in medicine especially.
Click to expand...

I guess you are referring to over-population here? If so, I agree.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2018
  • #1,337
mrtrench said:
Why do you think that? Don't you think that people with cystic fibrosis would prefer to have been born without it? We have to separate the benefits of technology used responsibility from an emotional response to history. Hitler was a vegetarian; should we therefore all eat meat?



I guess you are referring to over-population here? If so, I agree.
Click to expand...
I agree also,not just emotional history but the future too No one is ever going to vote for death though.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2018
  • #1,338
mrtrench said:
Why do you think that? Don't you think that people with cystic fibrosis would prefer to have been born without it? We have to separate the benefits of technology used responsibility from an emotional response to history. Hitler was a vegetarian; should we therefore all eat meat?

I guess you are referring to over-population here? If so, I agree.
Click to expand...

You misunderstood-I would wholeheartedly agree with gene therapy or engineering to eliminate such diseases. However, the more we circumvent nature's ways of curbing population growth the more difficult it becomes to distribute what is left.
 

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2018
  • #1,339
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Genetic engineering to prevent things like Huntington's chorea or cystic fibrosis is a different kettle of fish towards attempting to create a master race as the Nazis were hoping.
Click to expand...

Brighton Sky Blue said:
You misunderstood-I would wholeheartedly agree with gene therapy or engineering to eliminate such diseases.
Click to expand...

I'll admit, I struggled to reconcile these two statement for many long hours into the night. The meaning of the first sentence seemed clear to me and yet the second appeared to be contradictory. However your assertion that it was my mistake rather than a miscommunication from you drove me on to seek wisdom from the Brighton texts.

Tired and unable to continue, my candle waning, I retired to bed.

As often with these things, the answer came to me in a dream. I had been a fool! The only explanation is that you see "attempting to create a master race as the Nazis were hoping." as a positive thing. I cannot agree with you on that I'm afraid. There is no evidence that Aryans are in any way superior to any other race and more importantly he attempted to do it through genocide - which crosses the line for me.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2018
  • #1,340
mrtrench said:
I'll admit, I struggled to reconcile these two statement for many long hours into the night. The meaning of the first sentence seemed clear to me and yet the second appeared to be contradictory. However your assertion that it was my mistake rather than a miscommunication from you drove me on to seek wisdom from the Brighton texts.

Tired and unable to continue, my candle waning, I retired to bed.

As often with these things, the answer came to me in a dream. I had been a fool! The only explanation is that you see "attempting to create a master race as the Nazis were hoping." as a positive thing. I cannot agree with you on that I'm afraid. There is no evidence that Aryans are in any way superior to any other race and more importantly he attempted to do it through genocide - which crosses the line for me.
Click to expand...

What the hell
 
Reactions: rondog1973

rondog1973

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2018
  • #1,341
mrtrench said:
I'll admit, I struggled to reconcile these two statement for many long hours into the night. The meaning of the first sentence seemed clear to me and yet the second appeared to be contradictory. However your assertion that it was my mistake rather than a miscommunication from you drove me on to seek wisdom from the Brighton texts.

Tired and unable to continue, my candle waning, I retired to bed.

As often with these things, the answer came to me in a dream. I had been a fool! The only explanation is that you see "attempting to create a master race as the Nazis were hoping." as a positive thing. I cannot agree with you on that I'm afraid. There is no evidence that Aryans are in any way superior to any other race and more importantly he attempted to do it through genocide - which crosses the line for me.
Click to expand...
An absolutely staggering interpretation.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2018
  • #1,342
mrtrench said:
I'll admit, I struggled to reconcile these two statement for many long hours into the night. The meaning of the first sentence seemed clear to me and yet the second appeared to be contradictory. However your assertion that it was my mistake rather than a miscommunication from you drove me on to seek wisdom from the Brighton texts.

Tired and unable to continue, my candle waning, I retired to bed.

As often with these things, the answer came to me in a dream. I had been a fool! The only explanation is that you see "attempting to create a master race as the Nazis were hoping." as a positive thing. I cannot agree with you on that I'm afraid. There is no evidence that Aryans are in any way superior to any other race and more importantly he attempted to do it through genocide - which crosses the line for me.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited: Jan 24, 2018

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2018
  • #1,343
OK, I'm being disingenuous - but to make a point. I invite you to read the two sentences and present an alternative logical conclusion. Ignore your preconceived assumptions about what he believes and read them as a logic exercise.

Had he written that he had miscommunicated his opinion and clarified what he intended to write it would be fine. But he didn't - the fault apparently is mine for misunderstanding something that he has no need to correct. In the first sentence he says that addressing these issues is a step toward Nazi purification and in the second that he agrees with addressing the issues. Hence he implies that he agrees with taking steps towards Nazi race cleansing.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2018
  • #1,344
mrtrench said:
OK, I'm being disingenuous - but to make a point. I invite you to read the two sentences and present an alternative logical conclusion. Ignore your preconceived assumptions about what he believes and read them as a logic exercise.

Had he written that he had miscommunicated his opinion and clarified what he intended to write it would be fine. But he didn't - the fault apparently is mine for misunderstanding something that he has no need to correct. In the first sentence he says that addressing these issues is a step toward Nazi purification and in the second that he agrees with addressing the issues. Hence he implies that he agrees with taking steps towards Nazi race cleansing.
Click to expand...

How you can interpret that from a comment supporting the elimination of hereditary disease by genetic engineering is astonishing.

Sentence one: Genetic engineering to remove diseases is different to full blown Nazi eugenics.

Sentence two: I support genetic engineering to remove hereditary diseases.

Your conclusion: Nazi sympathiser. You're off your rocker.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2018
  • #1,345
Brighton Sky Blue said:
How you can interpret that from a comment supporting the elimination of hereditary disease by genetic engineering is astonishing.

Sentence one: Genetic engineering to remove diseases is different to full blown Nazi eugenics.

Sentence two: I support genetic engineering to remove hereditary diseases.

Your conclusion: Nazi sympathiser. You're off your rocker.
Click to expand...

He is saying one of the nazi ideas of an Ayrian race was to be superior which means free of disability and impurities - the very benefits you espouse.
 

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2018
  • #1,346
Brighton Sky Blue said:
How you can interpret that from a comment supporting the elimination of hereditary disease by genetic engineering is astonishing.
Click to expand...

For Science grad you're surprising poor at verbal reasoning. Let me help:

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Sickle cell anaemia serves an odd advantage in some countries since it provides near total immunity towards malaria. Genetic engineering to prevent things like Huntington's chorea or cystic fibrosis is a different kettle of fish towards attempting to create a master race as the Nazis were hoping.
Click to expand...

Decomposed as: Statement A. Statement B is different to Statement A and Statement B implies a move towards Statement C.

Where Statement A = Sickle cell anaemia serves an odd advantage in some countries since it provides near total immunity towards malaria.
Statement B = Genetic engineering to prevent things like Huntington's chorea or cystic fibrosis
Statement C = attempting to create a master race as the Nazis were hoping.

OK so far?

Then you follow up with
Brighton Sky Blue said:
You misunderstood-I would wholeheartedly agree with gene therapy or engineering to eliminate such diseases.
Click to expand...

Or, I agree with Statement B (Genetic engineering to prevent things like Huntington's chorea or cystic fibrosis)

It is therefore logical to conclude that given that you approve of Statement B and that Statement B implies a move towards Statement C, you approve of the move to Statement C.
 

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2018
  • #1,347
Or at an even more basic level.

A implies B. I agree with A. Therefore I agree with B.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2018
  • #1,348
Grendel said:
He is saying one of the nazi ideas of an Ayrian race was to be superior which means free of disability and impurities - the very benefits you espouse.
Click to expand...

Freedom from death by Huntington's chorea makes me a Nazi?
 

rondog1973

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2018
  • #1,349
mrtrench said:
For Science grad you're surprising poor at verbal reasoning. Let me help:



Decomposed as: Statement A. Statement B is different to Statement A and Statement B implies a move towards Statement C.

Where Statement A = Sickle cell anaemia serves an odd advantage in some countries since it provides near total immunity towards malaria.
Statement B = Genetic engineering to prevent things like Huntington's chorea or cystic fibrosis
Statement C = attempting to create a master race as the Nazis were hoping.

OK so far?

Then you follow up with


Or, I agree with Statement B (Genetic engineering to prevent things like Huntington's chorea or cystic fibrosis)

It is therefore logical to conclude that given that you approve of Statement B and that Statement B implies a move towards Statement C, you approve of the move to Statement C.
Click to expand...
Anyone remember Mr Logic from Viz Comic?
 
Reactions: SkyblueBazza, Sick Boy and clint van damme
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2018
  • #1,350
mrtrench said:
For Science grad you're surprising poor at verbal reasoning. Let me help:



Decomposed as: Statement A. Statement B is different to Statement A and Statement B implies a move towards Statement C.

Where Statement A = Sickle cell anaemia serves an odd advantage in some countries since it provides near total immunity towards malaria.
Statement B = Genetic engineering to prevent things like Huntington's chorea or cystic fibrosis
Statement C = attempting to create a master race as the Nazis were hoping.

OK so far?

Then you follow up with


Or, I agree with Statement B (Genetic engineering to prevent things like Huntington's chorea or cystic fibrosis)

It is therefore logical to conclude that given that you approve of Statement B and that Statement B implies a move towards Statement C, you approve of the move to Statement C.
Click to expand...

Leaving out: 'genetic engineering to remove fatal diseases IS DIFFERENT to attempting to creating a master race.' B does not imply a move towards C since we are not talking about the pursuit of perfection but the eradication of diseases which guarantee a painful death for the sufferer.

Take a look at yourself, accusing someone who is clearly left of centre of Nazi sympathies.
 
Reactions: martcov
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2018
  • #1,351
rondog1973 said:
Anyone remember Mr Logic from Viz Comic?
Click to expand...

Was he a Nazi?
 
Reactions: clint van damme

rondog1973

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2018
  • #1,352
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Was he a Nazi?
Click to expand...
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2018
  • #1,353
rondog1973 said:
Anyone remember Mr Logic from Viz Comic?
Click to expand...

genuinely laughed out loud at that!
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 25, 2018
  • #1,354
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Freedom from death by Huntington's chorea makes me a Nazi?
Click to expand...
I think what they are really suggesting is that introduction of what you are saying might be drifting towards opening the field up to 'cleanse' society. Bearing in mind there are still people in the most advanced societies & cultures in our modern world that think things like homosexuality is a disease. Others might argue that the ball on this started rolling with Edward Jenner & smallpox in 1700's

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 25, 2018
  • #1,355
SkyblueBazza said:
I think what they are really suggesting is that introduction of what you are saying might be drifting towards opening the field up to 'cleanse' society. Bearing in mind there are still people in the most advanced societies & cultures in our modern world that think things like homosexuality is a disease. Others might argue that the ball on this started rolling with Edward Jenner & smallpox in 1700's

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Which is the slippery slope fallacy.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 25, 2018
  • #1,356
On a lighter note I have put on a new signature

Oh....
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 25, 2018
  • #1,357
Grendel said:
On a lighter note I have put on a new signature

Oh....
Click to expand...

please don't encourage him to come over here.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 25, 2018
  • #1,358
clint van damme said:
please don't encourage him to come over here.
Click to expand...

I've used speech marks now so I am sure its all OK
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 26, 2018
  • #1,359
Grendel said:
On a lighter note I have put on a new signature

Oh....
Click to expand...
Could you please post it up as It doesn't show on my phone or in this format.
Have to say I think I could predict It.
Theresa has answered, although It won't be full frllls, I may be there.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jan 26, 2018
  • #1,360
clint van damme said:
please don't encourage him to come over here.
Click to expand...
God, it's bad enough as it is, and now you've made a way it can be worse.
 
Reactions: clint van damme
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 30, 2018
  • #1,361
I see the pro corbyn brigade vandelized a cafe in London that was a winston churchill themed cafe and called Churchill a racist and a against freedom of liberty.

Corbyns response is nothing. His office has been rung up for comment and there is none.

Deeply Shameful and insulting.

Any one else see this? Please tell me it’s not just me who is utterly horrified and insulted by this.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 30, 2018
  • #1,362
Kingokings204 said:
I see the pro corbyn brigade vandelized a cafe in London that was a winston churchill themed cafe and called Churchill a racist and a against freedom of liberty.

Corbyns response is nothing. His office has been rung up for comment and there is none.

Deeply Shameful and insulting.

Any one else see this? Please tell me it’s not just me who is utterly horrified and insulted by this.
Click to expand...

The same Churchill who originally praised Hitler and Mussolini? Sent the army to take care of „Jewish anarchists“ with artillery on to the streets of London? Mocked Ghandi as a half naked fakir? I think the demonstrators are twats, but am aware that Churchill was no angel.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 30, 2018
  • #1,363
Kingokings204 said:
I see the pro corbyn brigade vandelized a cafe in London that was a winston churchill themed cafe and called Churchill a racist and a against freedom of liberty.

Corbyns response is nothing. His office has been rung up for comment and there is none.

Deeply Shameful and insulting.

Any one else see this? Please tell me it’s not just me who is utterly horrified and insulted by this.
Click to expand...

seriously, with everything that's came out today is this all you've got to worry about?
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 30, 2018
  • #1,364
clint van damme said:
seriously, with everything that's came out today is this all you've got to worry about?
Click to expand...

Any thoughts on the incident or not? You didn’t seem to give any.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 30, 2018
  • #1,365
martcov said:
The same Churchill who originally praised Hitler and Mussolini? Sent the army to take care of „Jewish anarchists“ with artillery on to the streets of London? Mocked Ghandi as a half naked fakir? I think the demonstrators are twats, but am aware that Churchill was no angel.
Click to expand...

Oh I agree of course he wasn’t but I can’t have these protestors vandalizing a local shop/cafe and doing it under the guise of being the good guys.

Churchill fought against the nazis and for freedom of liberty and speech. Something the protestors should be lucky they have. The irony wasn’t lost on me. As you say they are twats. Stupid twats I may add.
 
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