Oh Jeremy Corbyn

dubed

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Aug 14, 2012
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Naz Shah tweeted a picture of the U.S. with Israel super-imposed on it saying "problem solved" or something to that effect I think.
You mean there was an anti-Semitic subtext here along the lines of a 'final solution'? Or am I trying just trying read anti-Semitism into this?
 

clint van damme

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You mean there was an anti-Semitic subtext here along the lines of a 'final solution'? Or am I trying just trying read anti-Semitism into this?
think the meaning behind it was get rid of Israel by moving it to the States.
There are a lot of spurious allegations of antisemitism banded about but I don't think there's any doubt about this one, goes beyond a legitimate criticism , though there's often an attempt to tar them with the same brush.
 
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Jamesimus

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You mean there was an anti-Semitic subtext here along the lines of a 'final solution'? Or am I trying just trying read anti-Semitism into this?
I mean yeah, I think so; even if not intentional, it's pretty insensitive / ignorant.
 

dubed

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That video is bang on, and it very much chimes with me, having spent two years in Israel. As I said in a post some time ago, I didn't meet one member of the army that defended the actions of the border zionists - most of them Americans - that they were sent to the outposts to protect. This is a country that in its kibbutzim and mosharvisim got the closet to Marx's ideals as anyone. Whilst I have no doubts that there are some anti-Semitic elements in Labour - and I can have a guess at where the roots lay - the antisemitism conspiracy arises from those looking to defend Zionism - always been my view.

What a brilliant find.
 
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Grendel

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That video is bang on, and it very much chimes with me, having spent two years in Israel. As I said in a post some time ago, I didn't meet one member of the army that defended the actions of the border zionists - most of them Americans - that they were sent to the outposts to protect. This is a country that in its kibbutzim and mosharvisim got the closet to Marx's ideals as anyone. Whilst I have no doubts that there are some anti-Semitic elements in Labour - and I can have a guess at where the roots lay - the antisemitism conspiracy arises from those looking to defend Zionism - always been my view.

What a brilliant find.
An alternate view

 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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Sorry there was vile AS by members of the party and he did fuck all to try and rectify it and yes that is something he can legitimately be held accountable for as he was the leader.

So what if there tories are grubby as fuck and up to their knees in islamophobia? That can not be used to justify the piss poor response to AS with the Labour Party.
While it was a stupid thing to say is it unfair to say that in certain aspect of the media labour were portrayed as pretty much institutionally anti-semitic when it was a small minority and much of that was more anti-israeli policy than anti-Semitic. There was probably almost certainly more hiding in the shadows. It is convenient for the current leadership to alienate the more extreme left they took over from and thus distance themselves, but at the same time it should be looked into.

But compare this to the Islamophobia in the Tories. An investigation/report was promised that still hasn't been done. Labour has produced the report it promised and is now front and centre in the row again. Looking at the two appraoches there'd be some who were thinking "why didn't we just do the Tory think and just promise it and not do it? No-one's talking about their prejudices as much as ours" But then had they done that we all know certain aspects of the media wouldn't have let the issue lie in the same way they have with the Islamophobia investigation.

I'm not saying that Labour should have been focused on les - far from it. When the issue is present it deserves a great deal of coverage and those guilty kicked out of the party. I'm saying the same level of scrutiny should be given to the Tories with their racism problems. But it's not.
 

Grendel

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While it was a stupid thing to say is it unfair to say that in certain aspect of the media labour were portrayed as pretty much institutionally anti-semitic when it was a small minority and much of that was more anti-israeli policy than anti-Semitic. There was probably almost certainly more hiding in the shadows. It is convenient for the current leadership to alienate the more extreme left they took over from and thus distance themselves, but at the same time it should be looked into.

But compare this to the Islamophobia in the Tories. An investigation/report was promised that still hasn't been done. Labour has produced the report it promised and is now front and centre in the row again. Looking at the two appraoches there'd be some who were thinking "why didn't we just do the Tory think and just promise it and not do it? No-one's talking about their prejudices as much as ours" But then had they done that we all know certain aspects of the media wouldn't have let the issue lie in the same way they have with the Islamophobia investigation.

I'm not saying that Labour should have been focused on les - far from it. When the issue is present it deserves a great deal of coverage and those guilty kicked out of the party. I'm saying the same level of scrutiny should be given to the Tories with their racism problems. But it's not.
No Tory would have got away with livingstone and blatant racism over the years
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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Naz Shah tweeted a picture of the U.S. with Israel super-imposed on it saying "problem solved" or something to that effect I think.

For what it's worth I like Jezza and don't think he's anti-Semitic personally. The majority of what he said was fine. One paragraph of it was definitely not. You can't minimise these things and deflect blame, own them and talk about how you're going to put it right.
That was a stupid thing to tweet and was too open to interpretation.

One way is that they were pointing out that had a Jewish homeland after the war been created in the US, which has a large amount of scarcely populated land and already had a significant Jewish population, as opposed to being forced upon a region that is now almost exclusively Muslim by basically kicking Palestinians out of their own country or making them second class citizens much of the problems that exist in the Middle East since could've been avoided. Of course their desire was return to Jerusalem but those that already occupied that land were given practically no say in the matter. Anyone with half a brain could see this was going to lead to generations of fighting and bloodshed.

However, it could also be interpreted that they're suggesting a solution to the Middle East conflict in the present day would be for Israel to be wiped from the map in the Middle East and rehomed in the US. This is clearly not an option.

I've no idea which way they meant it. If it's the latter they deserved serious sanctions.
 

dubed

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Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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No Tory would have got away with livingstone and blatant racism over the years
He certainly got away with far, far too much but Johnson has got away with numerous instances of what at best you could describe as un-PC language - many more would describe it as racist. In fact rather than being rebuked he got eventually got given the position of leader.
 

Grendel

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He certainly got away with far, far too much but Johnson has got away with numerous instances of what at best you could describe as un-PC language - many more would describe it as racist. In fact rather than being rebuked he got eventually got given the position of leader.
Yawn
 
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clint van damme

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He certainly got away with far, far too much but Johnson has got away with numerous instances of what at best you could describe as un-PC language - many more would describe it as racist. In fact rather than being rebuked he got eventually got given the position of leader.
The Tories are in the council of Europe. They're aligned with racists and antisemites. That's indisputable.
 

Jamesimus

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That was a stupid thing to tweet and was too open to interpretation.

One way is that they were pointing out that had a Jewish homeland after the war been created in the US, which has a large amount of scarcely populated land and already had a significant Jewish population, as opposed to being forced upon a region that is now almost exclusively Muslim by basically kicking Palestinians out of their own country or making them second class citizens much of the problems that exist in the Middle East since could've been avoided. Of course their desire was return to Jerusalem but those that already occupied that land were given practically no say in the matter. Anyone with half a brain could see this was going to lead to generations of fighting and bloodshed.

However, it could also be interpreted that they're suggesting a solution to the Middle East conflict in the present day would be for Israel to be wiped from the map in the Middle East and rehomed in the US. This is clearly not an option.

I've no idea which way they meant it. If it's the latter they deserved serious sanctions.
I am very much pro-palestine btw, but the tweet was pretty hideous I think. I don't think there was malice in it, just ignorance but I'm not sure!
 

David O'Day

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While it was a stupid thing to say is it unfair to say that in certain aspect of the media labour were portrayed as pretty much institutionally anti-semitic when it was a small minority and much of that was more anti-israeli policy than anti-Semitic. There was probably almost certainly more hiding in the shadows. It is convenient for the current leadership to alienate the more extreme left they took over from and thus distance themselves, but at the same time it should be looked into.

But compare this to the Islamophobia in the Tories. An investigation/report was promised that still hasn't been done. Labour has produced the report it promised and is now front and centre in the row again. Looking at the two appraoches there'd be some who were thinking "why didn't we just do the Tory think and just promise it and not do it? No-one's talking about their prejudices as much as ours" But then had they done that we all know certain aspects of the media wouldn't have let the issue lie in the same way they have with the Islamophobia investigation.

I'm not saying that Labour should have been focused on les - far from it. When the issue is present it deserves a great deal of coverage and those guilty kicked out of the party. I'm saying the same level of scrutiny should be given to the Tories with their racism problems. But it's not.
Yes it was a stupid thing to say. No ifs, no buts and no excuses.
 
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Sky Blue Pete

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Red Len Mccloskey says the Labour Party is dead and the left need to mobilise 😂
Most of my political socialist friends agree. Here’s to 40 years of tory rule. I’m utterly convinced the socialist movement have no interest in power they just want to be perfect and only in theory in their own opinions
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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All this confirms is the Tories are run by CEOs who exude power and influence and Labour are run by a bloke who couldn’t run a chip shop - it’s hilarious
So you're saying those with power, money and influence should be allowed to get away with hate speech?
 

Mucca Mad Boys

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You can’t say this:

View attachment 17356

At the exact time your leader is saying “if you think it’s exaggerated by the media you’re the problem and need to leave” and expect nothing to happen.

Corbyns problem has always been he’s too thick for politics.
Corbyn is not so much thick for politics, but never came to grasps with what it took to grasp power. He just doesn’t get it.

He was finished as a political entity before this, so I really don’t see the need why he felt the need to chime in on this.

It’s not a good look when Campbell got suspended, and now the last Labour leader is also suspended. Ugly internal politics.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

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Only had a quick skim of the report, need more time to read it as there's 100 pages of it, but from what I've read so far Corbyn's statement seems pretty much in line with what the report says.

Will be interesting to see if Starmer revisits the leaked internal report and takes action given the EHRC report suggests that improvement in the handling of antisemitism complaints coincided with the removal of those named in the leaked report as actively working against Corbyn.

All in all its a complete mess, Labour seems unable to stop imploding even when we have a complete shambles of a government that they should be wiping the floor with.
Too busy settling old scores I’m afraid.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

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It’sabatch87

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Most of my political socialist friends agree. Here’s to 40 years of tory rule. I’m utterly convinced the socialist movement have no interest in power they just want to be perfect and only in theory in their own opinions
Labour are just a protest party not been a socialist party for over 40 yrs in government such a sad situation and no opposition for the conservatives.
This country needs a strong commons arguing policies get away from the anti Semitic racist bollocks.
Is it to much to Wish for?
 

Sky Blue Pete

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Labour are just a protest party not been a socialist party for over 40 yrs in government such a sad situation and no opposition for the conservatives.
This country needs a strong commons arguing policies get away from the anti Semitic racist bollocks.
Is it to much to Wish for?
We are not a socialist country. 15% at best. We are centre left
 

David O'Day

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Nothing that happened today helped the Tories, they were as per their emails planning on trying to tie Starmer to Corbyn as a member of his shadow cabinet. Corbyn could keep stum and Starmer suspended him thus destroying all the CCHQ attack lines.