New Ricoh deal? (1 Viewer)

[skybluetony176]

The clubs future could just mean the activation of the "+ 2 year option"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Indeed it could. But even that takes us out of the limbo of what happens at the end of the season. Hopefully something longer can be agreed. Something along the lines of the 10 years it seems we all agree with Italia that's needed.

 

---

[covcity4life]

if food and drink not huge profitable for them they should give us 100% of it whilst leaving us with all ticket revenue and 100k rent.

ccfc should agree to that and sign a long term deal of 5 years or more.

 

[Nick]

You are joking. Enjoy your new stadium pal - you know, the one that should've been built 2 years ago, the one that doesn't even have a plannning application in anywhere, the one Timmie's sole role is to deliver. Wasps, don't do business with the devil. Even if they sign something it won't be worth the paper it's written on (in my opinion SISU lawyers).

Oh dear! The comments from the residents of Coventry are starting.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yep halving their attendances in less than a year, thats particularly well run. And to think people want rid of SISU to be replaced with Wasps owners.

I would be happy with being rid of SISU and Wasps.

50%, is that it? What a bunch of amateurs. SISU's record is 80% in a year

 

[skybluetony176]

if food and drink not huge profitable for them they should give us 100% of it whilst leaving us with all ticket revenue and 100k rent.

ccfc should agree to that and sign a long term deal of 5 years or more.

That would be nice

 

[chiefdave]

Is todays CT front page story basically that a landlord wants a tenant to keep paying them rent, nothing has been discussed or agreed but there's a meeting next week where they may or may not talk about it?

Not sure what the Sixfields option will be worth after next Tuesday. Maybe that's why SW is now meeting Wasps. No plan B.

Can't imagine there's any plan to move us to Sixfields but if the worst comes to the worst for them there will be a ground sat empty.

 

[Oz Howie]

Could be both empty and derelict

 

[shmmeee]

Is todays CT front page story basically that a landlord wants a tenant to keep paying them rent, nothing has been discussed or agreed but there's a meeting next week where they may or may not talk about it?

99.9% of City stories are like that, hell 99.9% of local news stories are like that. But you know we'll click on anything related to the club.

 

[Astute]

And if for some unknown reason we ended back in Northampton would those that bring up franchises in as many threads that they can ever watch our football club play again?

 

[italiahorse]

And if for some unknown reason we ended back in Northampton would those that bring up franchises in as many threads that they can ever watch our football club play again?

I think if ever we went back most fans would give up for good.

 

[Sbarcher]

Good opportunity maybe for Wasps to sell the Ricoh for a massive profit and then buy the Northampton ground from the Administrator. Just a stone's throw from the Saints ground so would be interesting!
Sorry...... just woke up from my dream.......

 

[Nick]

And if for some unknown reason we ended back in Northampton would those that bring up franchises in as many threads that they can ever watch our football club play again?

If we moved to Northampton forever? I wouldn't go and wouldn't have before if it was full time. That would be me done.

 

[torchomatic]

This is my favourite line: “Bigger crowds means more food and beverages are sold, but it’s not a big chunk of our profitability."
The more we buy at CCFC matches the more Wasps get. Hurrah!

This article might even bring those missing SBT members back.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

This is my favourite line: “Bigger crowds means more food and beverages are sold, but it’s not a big chunk of our profitability."
The more we buy at CCFC matches the more Wasps get. Hurrah!

This article might even bring those missing SBT members back.

Like who?

 

[skybluetony176]

The more we buy at CCFC matches the more Wasps get. Hurrah!

The more CCFC get too. That's always worth remembering.

 

[chiefdave]

The more CCFC get too. That's always worth remembering.

Its never be clarified what the 50% of F&B actually is has it? 50% of revenues or 50% of profit?

 

[skybluetony176]

And if for some unknown reason we ended back in Northampton would those that bring up franchises in as many threads that they can ever watch our football club play again?

Depends what the circumstances are. If we genuinely (i.e. not like last time) got thrown out and had no choice but to play at Sixfields in the interim I'd go. If SISU volunteered us to be homeless (i.e. like last time) I wouldn't step foot in the place. If we moved there permanently I'd be done.

 

[skybluetony176]

Its never be clarified what the 50% of F&B actually is has it? 50% of revenues or 50% of profit?

Something for the SCG to get clarification on maybe. Not that it should make any difference to if you purchase or not. It's still taking revenue away from the CCFC whichever way.

 

[Ian1779]

Whenever or however the deal is renegotiated - if the terms are not the same as before then the club will be affected ON the pitch.

 

[oldskyblue58]

So ......

Armstrong would like the football team to stay longer. No real surprise there then. Its, from a Wasps point of view, of benefit to have the stadium footfall as high as possible and a contribution at least to costs. What you would expect him to say? It seems it wasn't him who mentioned the potential meeting next week. Apparently the F&B is not a big factor in this, this would seem to be bourne out in the Wasps accounts where Food & drink accounts for 4% of turnover (approx. 900k in total from all sources)

Waggott says he is likely to discuss the tenancy next week but doesn't actually say what aspect. Could be just to confirm that they are ok to stay on the same arrangements for two more years, could be discussing a longer deal but that doesn't fit with any of the rhetoric coming out of the club. Probably just one of a series of regular monthly meetings?

Fisher. Well he maintains the party line "Club must have its own ground" to get the most income it can to maximise the FFP budget. Trouble is there is no real evidence of any movement towards that whatsoever. There is no economic plan or outline budget provided for anyone to hang a hat on and invest even emotionally in. Does the bit about FFP even stack up currently? - where the club have franchised the club merchandise and programme sales out to get a commission, and in those two actions decreased this and future years FFP budgets

When does the option run out at NTFC? Didn't the club sign a 3 year arrangement in 2013? How do they think they could successfully go back there? Would such an option die if NTFC was liquidated?

Does the club get 50% of the turnover for F&B under their Ricoh deal or is it 50% of the profit - cant imagine Wasps pick up all the costs?

If there is a new deal wont the club need to comply with FL regulations of a minimum 10 year deal? Could they include a break clause?

When are the club going to give far better detail on this new ground - not just the site but also a more detailed outline of how it all stacks up? When are the SCG or Trust going to push for this?

Out of interest how many Championship or L1 teams run at a profit? If they make losses do they own or rent their ground? What makes us different especially when we don't have our own assets to sell to invest or it would seem the support of any local authorities ? What are the additional costs in owning our own ground and would they be less than the additional incomes gained by doing so? The FFP budget may well increase but the cash flow will need to cover the additional 365 day costs so if we are to be self sufficient surely something has to give and logic says that must be the cash available for the squad (the FFP calc is a limit not a day to day reality)

That all said I agree with Dave when he said

"Is todays CT front page story basically that a landlord wants a tenant to keep paying them rent, nothing has been discussed or agreed but there's a meeting next week where they may or may not talk about it?"

 

[Specs WT-R75]

Ahead of that meeting, Mr Armstrong told the Telegraph he wanted Coventry City to remain at the Ricoh Arena and explained how the Sky Blues benefited the Aviva Premiership rugby club’s business.

...and herin lies the problem. What benefits Wasps/ACL will detriment CCFC when it comes to competing in the Championship should we be fortunate enough to get there. Not that I believe that a new stadium is a realistic proposition either...

Just give us a reasonable rent and access to 100% of the profits we generate. Simples.

The option on Northampton is retained likely because the club has to show the Football league it can fulfil its fixtures for the next X years regardless. It also gives the club bargaining power that Wasps do not hold all the cards (even though they do!)... the club will say we went to Northampton once, we will do it again - talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face though!

 

[oldskyblue58]

What are the income streams that we generate or finance that we do not access?
what are the costs of getting those income streams 100%?
Is the current rent reasonable?
is the current rent available in the future?
Are matchday expenses in addition to rent?

Going to depend how worth it to Wasps it is for CCFC to be here. There is I would imagine a point where Wasps say ok go on then go back to NTFC the choice is yours.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Another sixfields would probably finish the club for good so basically we're at the mercy of ACL and they can exploit us as they please.

 

[skybluetony176]

...and herin lies the problem. What benefits Wasps/ACL will detriment CCFC when it comes to competing in the Championship should we be fortunate enough to get there. Not that I believe that a new stadium is a realistic proposition either...

Just give us a reasonable rent and access to 100% of the profits we generate. Simples.

The option on Northampton is retained likely because the club has to show the Football league it can fulfil its fixtures for the next X years regardless. It also gives the club bargaining power that Wasps do not hold all the cards (even though they do!)... the club will say we went to Northampton once, we will do it again - talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face though!

I don't buy that wasps hold all the cards. There is more value to CCFC being at the Ricoh other than collecting the rent and taking your share of the F&B income. CCFC leaving would be a PR disaster for Wasps unless we're moving to our own ground in the City, CCFC being at the Ricoh raises it's profile and largely to a different audience to Wasps and that's crucial to success especially when the naming rights are up for renewal, ACL's other customers i.e. the casino, hotel etc get a direct benefit from CCFC being at the Ricoh.

If I sat down and thought about it longer I'm sure they'll be more but to say that Wasps hold all the cards is just plain wrong.

 

[torchomatic]

Well you would have thought that the football club being shafted by Wasps and the Council would be a PR disaster but remarkably quite a few seemed happy about it. Takes all sorts, I suppose.

I don't buy that wasps hold all the cards. There is more value to CCFC being at the Ricoh other than collecting the rent and taking your share of the F&B income. CCFC leaving would be a PR disaster for Wasps unless we're moving to our own ground in the City, CCFC being at the Ricoh raises it's profile and largely to a different audience to Wasps and that's crucial to success especially when the naming rights are up for renewal, ACL's other customers i.e. the casino, hotel etc get a direct benefit from CCFC being at the Ricoh.

If I sat down and thought about it longer I'm sure they'll be more but to say that Wasps hold all the cards is just plain wrong.

 

[skybluetony176]

Well you would have thought that the football club being shafted by Wasps and the Council would be a PR disaster but remarkably quite a few seemed happy about it. Takes all sorts, I suppose.

Depends on if you see it that way or not. The majority of Coventry tax payers clearly don't.

Either way like I said we have a value to the Ricoh and more than collecting rent. It's time to recognise that and sell that to our landlords when negotiating our future at the Ricoh. If you don't recognise that Wasps will have all the cards and it will be because you've handed them to them.

 

[Specs WT-R75]

What are the income streams that we generate or finance that we do not access?
what are the costs of getting those income streams 100%?
Is the current rent reasonable?
is the current rent available in the future?
Are matchday expenses in addition to rent?

Going to depend how worth it to Wasps it is for CCFC to be here. There is I would imagine a point where Wasps say ok go on then go back to NTFC the choice is yours.

As to the answers to the questions, I would suggest that the current rent is indeed reasonable. In the Championship you would hope that we would need to open up the rest of the stadium so a slight increase in rent if we got promoted is also reasonable. Is it available in the future... I don't see why not - if we were not here they would not be able to get another tenant to pay even a fraction of 100k/y imho. It would seem logical to negotiate based on similar terms but with a clause for extra money if the club were to get back to the PL.

Is it reasonable that CCFC don't have access to the full F&B profits... I would suggest not. They would get negligible additional income if we are not here - they also state the amount is not substantial, so in that case if we need it then they should turn it over to us...

You would imagine that the stadium naming rights are worth a fair amount more with CCFC as a tenant, than if they are not. Is it right that Wasps have 100% of that gain? Well of course in law it is as it is their stadium, but if CCFC add the value to their business then they should also share some of that gain (imho). Again if the club did get back to the PL those naming rights would be potentially huge...

I suspect there is a point where Wasps would say "enough", however based on extending the current terms I think it would be -Ev for Wasps to do that... obviously CCFC will try and negotiate a little more - depends how willing Wasps are I guess. There could be some other synergies to explore too that could benefit both, such as ticket deals, joint ticket office/ticketing systems....

 

[M&B Stand]

I'm surprised there's not more pressure on Wasps to give the club the best possible deal. Both from within the football clubs fanbase and around the city.

Hopefully they're working on a proper deal, who knows, maybe there is a symbiotic relationship to be made. Surely it's in Wasps interests that ccfc be allowed to flourish.

 

[oldskyblue58]

might not hold all the cards tony but they have a very good hand. CCFC hand really only gets stronger in terms of staying if the team is successful, challenging in L1 or better still safe in Championship. But there is the catch unless there is more income or further financial support sourced by the owners can it be sustainable. If it isn't then all the "cards" referred to actually diminish in value to Wasps.

We are assuming that the Wasps financial plans see CCFC as a major part of the Wasps success - do they? we don't know. So long as they can keep the conference/exhibition/other tenants/wasps team etc income up and increasing then the value of the long lease remains high and the whole Group breaks even or better. Which from the wasps point of view are the key issues. The long lease value was based in minor part on a 2+2 deal for CCFC hard to think that carries much value

Would they force CCFC out - hard to think they would do anything quite so blatant as change the locks. It would be offering a deal that is too expensive that would do that - their idea of expensive will not be the same as SISU's you can bet on that. Then it will be all about the PR spin as to who gets believed.

CCFC can not afford to go anywhere else at the moment until they have their own ground imo. Trouble is I don't see much evidence of any new ground.

Rock and a hard place for CCFC as usual I think

 

[oldskyblue58]

bottom line .......

It would be good to have some clarity and certainty in which ever way we are heading, I wont hold my breath though

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Another sixfields would probably finish the club for good so basically we're at the mercy of ACL and they can exploit us as they please.

.....and in that respect....nothing has changed.

Of course, a key element that has changed is that ACL was previously run by what appeared to be a clueless & incompetent bunch of duplicitous twats....

.....now its run by a immoral money grabbing hedge-fund/ sporting franchise.....


...Still...we're currently only 1 point off top spot & Joe Cole plays in sky blue....so for now, that'll do me nicely!

 

[Nick]

might not hold all the cards tony but they have a very good hand. CCFC hand really only gets stronger in terms of staying if the team is successful, challenging in L1 or better still safe in Championship. But there is the catch unless there is more income or further financial support sourced by the owners can it be sustainable. If it isn't then all the "cards" referred to actually diminish in value to Wasps.

We are assuming that the Wasps financial plans see CCFC as a major part of the Wasps success - do they? we don't know. So long as they can keep the conference/exhibition/other tenants/wasps team etc income up and increasing then the value of the long lease remains high and the whole Group breaks even or better. Which from the wasps point of view are the key issues. The long lease value was based in minor part on a 2+2 deal for CCFC hard to think that carries much value

Would they force CCFC out - hard to think they would do anything quite so blatant as change the locks. It would be offering a deal that is too expensive that would do that - their idea of expensive will not be the same as SISU's you can bet on that. Then it will be all about the PR spin as to who gets believed.

CCFC can not afford to go anywhere else at the moment until they have their own ground imo. Trouble is I don't see much evidence of any new ground.

Rock and a hard place for CCFC as usual I think

That's the thing isn't it, they could just price us out and run to the cet and say "sisu didn't want to pay to be at the ricoh" and lots of people won't actually question what the actual price was.

The same as when there were people offering free rent and nobody actually questioned the terms on offer.

If they had worries about the jr they could even say drop this else your out.

 

[skybluetony176]

might not hold all the cards tony but they have a very good hand. CCFC hand really only gets stronger in terms of staying if the team is successful, challenging in L1 or better still safe in Championship. But there is the catch unless there is more income or further financial support sourced by the owners can it be sustainable. If it isn't then all the "cards" referred to actually diminish in value to Wasps.

We are assuming that the Wasps financial plans see CCFC as a major part of the Wasps success - do they? we don't know. So long as they can keep the conference/exhibition/other tenants/wasps team etc income up and increasing then the value of the long lease remains high and the whole Group breaks even or better. Which from the wasps point of view are the key issues. The long lease value was based in minor part on a 2+2 deal for CCFC hard to think that carries much value

Would they force CCFC out - hard to think they would do anything quite so blatant as change the locks. It would be offering a deal that is too expensive that would do that - their idea of expensive will not be the same as SISU's you can bet on that. Then it will be all about the PR spin as to who gets believed.

CCFC can not afford to go anywhere else at the moment until they have their own ground imo. Trouble is I don't see much evidence of any new ground.

Rock and a hard place for CCFC as usual I think

I think that the naming rights to the ground are the ace up our sleeve. There's no doubt CCFC raises the profile of The Ricoh, Wasps or no Wasps, especially as you say the more successful we are. It's in there interest for us to stay and be successful.

 

[oldskyblue58]

That's the thing isn't it, they could just price us out and run to the cet and say "sisu didn't want to pay to be at the ricoh" and lots of people won't actually question what the actual price was.

The same as when there were people offering free rent and nobody actually questioned the terms on offer.

If they had worries about the jr they could even say drop this else your out.

That works both ways both ways though doesn't it. I am sure Wasps could say that but equally SISU could cry foul even if the deal were reasonable

 

[Steve.B50]

Do a long term deal at Ricoh and get into the Championship, then sell the club or at least put us up for sale.