New Labour Leader

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2016
5,098
2,147
163
I didn't think Corbyn was standing for re-election as leader - but it seems he's currently in 4th place on 8%
The next leader surely can't be as left as Corbyn, his awful way of politics was thrown out completely
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2016
5,098
2,147
163
Yes they will be as they think the public need to change thinking not the other way round - it’s going to be Long-Bailey and Dawn Butler as deputy - it’s hilarious and tragic at the same time
Madness, surely they need to realise that the public does't want Socialism
 

fatso

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2017
2,492
1,950
163
Madness, surely they need to realise that the public does't want Socialism
The Labour Party has become infected with the cancer of socialism, and the socialists just won’t accept democracy. I genuinely fear we are seeing the beginning of the end of the Labour Party. That would be tragic for british politics, as you always need a strong opposition to hold the government of the day to account.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SkyBlueDom26

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2016
5,098
2,147
163
The Labour Party has become infected with the cancer of socialism, and the socialists just won’t accept democracy. I genuinely fear we are seeing the beginning of the end of the Labour Party. That would be tragic for british politics, as you always need a strong opposition to hold the government of the day to account.
Momentum should be mostly held to blame as well as Commie Corbyn and the front bench he had, they completely deserted leave voters to keep London happy
 
  • Like
Reactions: fatso

eastwoodsdustman

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2011
3,700
2,666
163
Madness, surely they need to realise that the public does't want Socialism
They don’t listen and think that they know what’s best for the public. That’s why they lost seats in the north. The electorate said they weren’t being listened to so voted conservative and guess what’s going to happen again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SkyBlueDom26

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2012
16,500
6,329
263
They don’t listen and think that they know what’s best for the public. That’s why they lost seats in the north. The electorate said they weren’t being listened to so voted conservative and guess what’s going to happen again.
How have the conservatives listened over the last 9 years?
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2012
16,500
6,329
263
Most pro labour supporters on here claim this party still is not hard left. Are you saying otherwise?
Corbyn’s Party? Probably not compared to the Nordic states but it’s what the population desire. I think it’s a little left of centre left at the moment
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2008
25,909
14,188
363
Coventry
The argument is over, put your drum away now.
I hoped the argument would be over and now Johnson has a huge majority he would just get on with it but it still seems to be dominating the news so I fear we've got many more months / years arguing over it yet.
The GE was mostly about Brexit, and it’s outcome was overwhelming.
Another one who can't accept a majority result, most people would prefer a clean break brexit
Isn't the percentage who voted for remain and / or 2nd ref parties greater than the percentage who voted for leave?

Either way Johnson has his majority so just get on with it and stop wasting time with meaningless bills to put artificial time limits in place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NorthernWisdom

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2016
5,098
2,147
163
Corbyn’s Party? Probably not compared to the Nordic states but it’s what the population desire. I think it’s a little left of centre left at the moment
Completely deluded, if it was the case the commie would be prime minister
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2008
25,909
14,188
363
Coventry
Completely deluded, if it was the case the commie would be prime minister
This is an issue that goes back to before Corbyn became leader. If the polling and research done over the years is to be believed a large number of people don't appear to vote in line with the policies they agree with. Thats not just saying people like Labour policies but won't vote for Corbyn it applies to all parties.

Oddly there doesn't seem to any research into why that is the case. I would have thought an obvious follow up when you see people not voting in line with their preferred policies would be to try and find out why.

Just one example. YouGov have released poll results today, of polling done last week, that shows support for nationalisation is growing. This is a Labour policy that was ridiculed during the election campaign.

Public support for nationalisation increased while Jeremy ...https://www.independent.co.uk › News › UK › UK Politics

Screenshot 2019-12-17 at 14.14.23.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: SkyBlueDom26

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2013
22,381
12,687
363
This is an issue that goes back to before Corbyn became leader. If the polling and research done over the years is to be believed a large number of people don't appear to vote in line with the policies they agree with. Thats not just saying people like Labour policies but won't vote for Corbyn it applies to all parties.
Johnson's an interesting case mind you, as he's made a career of being successful, despite all objective measurements as to his ability suggesting he shouldn't be employed in McDonald's in case he confuses the burger with a bar of soap from the toilets... or something worse.

What he could do is sell you the shit burger, tell you it tasted fantastic, and you'd agree.

Despite all the evidence being there, drawing attention to his lies and his contradictions has never had an effect so, what do you do? Just go on your own policy line? That too doesn't really work, as you find your own policy attacked, without any defence being put up on your part.

Interestingly, despite all the controversy that surrounds him, Ken Livingstone made a decent attempt at 2012 in winning back the mayorality. Ken Livingstone! So maybe it comes down to needing a strong personality, and hang the policy! What both Livingstone and Johnson are is anti-establishment of course but then... so's Corbyn! Johnson USP is that he manages the almost unique feat of portraying himself as anti-establishment while being from its very bowels - he gives the reassurance of depth, and the superficial impression of radicalism - that's his appeal. I can't think of others who manage that.

Maybe it does need somebody like Jess Phillips to just shout at Johnson all day!
 

fatso

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2017
2,492
1,950
163
Johnson's an interesting case mind you, as he's made a career of being successful, despite all objective measurements as to his ability suggesting he shouldn't be employed in McDonald's in case he confuses the burger with a bar of soap from the toilets... or something worse.

What he could do is sell you the shit burger, tell you it tasted fantastic, and you'd agree.

Despite all the evidence being there, drawing attention to his lies and his contradictions has never had an effect so, what do you do? Just go on your own policy line? That too doesn't really work, as you find your own policy attacked, without any defence being put up on your part.

Interestingly, despite all the controversy that surrounds him, Ken Livingstone made a decent attempt at 2012 in winning back the mayorality. Ken Livingstone! So maybe it comes down to needing a strong personality, and hang the policy! What both Livingstone and Johnson are is anti-establishment of course but then... so's Corbyn! Johnson USP is that he manages the almost unique feat of portraying himself as anti-establishment while being from its very bowels - he gives the reassurance of depth, and the superficial impression of radicalism - that's his appeal. I can't think of others who manage that.

Maybe it does need somebody like Jess Phillips to just shout at Johnson all day!
I’ve said it before, Johnson got in because he wasn’t Corbyn.
It didn’t matter what he said or did, or if he did tv interviews or not, the fact that he wasn’t Corbyn was enough to get him his landslide victory.
 

richnrg

Well-Known Member
Jan 22, 2014
1,356
1,480
163
I’ve said it before, Johnson got in because he wasn’t Corbyn.
It didn’t matter what he said or did, or if he did tv interviews or not, the fact that he wasn’t Corbyn was enough to get him his landslide victory.
poor old Swinson, who also wasn't Corbyn.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2012
6,076
3,570
163
Most pro labour supporters on here claim this party still is not hard left. Are you saying otherwise?
It’s only perceived as hard left because of how far right we’ve been dragged.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
7,160
4,346
113
Another one who can't accept a majority result, most people would prefer a clean break brexit
If that was the case why vote Tory who have an 'oven-ready deal' (or did until Alexander amended it without warning)? If what you're saying is true surely they don't want an oven-ready deal, they want no deal, in which case the 'red wall' would've voted for Brexit party.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
7,160
4,346
113
I’ve looked at it for fucking ages, and I can’t find any reference to “leave with a shitty deal that ties us into the very thing we’re voting to get out of”View attachment 13707
Just ignore all the campaigning by Farage, Alexander and Gove then. And the fact that the Tories just won a landslide offering an 'oven-ready deal' in staunchly Labour areas when apparently they all want no deal.

I agree that it should've be on 'no deal' but every bit of campaigning by Leave had no mention of that happening - it was pick and choose the bits we like.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
7,160
4,346
113
Please don't tell me you are being serious, if that was the case labour would be in charge haha
In terms of social policy we are. Economically we're quite far right. Over there a lot of people see Bernie Sanders as akin to Corbyn - over here he'd be centre-left.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2011
1,938
1,297
163
This is an issue that goes back to before Corbyn became leader. If the polling and research done over the years is to be believed a large number of people don't appear to vote in line with the policies they agree with. Thats not just saying people like Labour policies but won't vote for Corbyn it applies to all parties.

Oddly there doesn't seem to any research into why that is the case. I would have thought an obvious follow up when you see people not voting in line with their preferred policies would be to try and find out why.

Just one example. YouGov have released poll results today, of polling done last week, that shows support for nationalisation is growing. This is a Labour policy that was ridiculed during the election campaign.

Public support for nationalisation increased while Jeremy ...https://www.independent.co.uk › News › UK › UK Politics

View attachment 13711
I don’t think nationalisation, in particular the railways, was ridiculed Dave. People, rightly, questioned the need to nationalise everything (rail, water, energy) and give free broadband to all...and then the suggestion it wouldn’t cost the man on the street any more. Even if you believe the labour justifications for nationalisation (and the longer term cost benefit) the short term cost of renationalising whole industries, together with the cost of borrowing/impact on both governments borrowing rates would be huge.

Ps The only real relevant one on the list is rail. Energy companies is the same percentage on the list suggesting there isn’t an increased appetite for their nationalisation. Royal Mail is in a dying sector. Massive pension deficit from memory. Others on list are public owned apart from Telecoms which is only 35% anyway
 
  • Like
Reactions: Astute

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2013
1,511
780
163
UK
Remain is dead dude. Time to move on.

Brexit as an issue isn’t going away soon, but the Remain/Leave fight is over. We lost.
You lost it 3½ years ago, you just refused to accept it.

All you could ever achieve was to delay it. If you ever believed you could stop it you were deluded.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SkyBlueDom26

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
19,439
20,832
263
I don’t think nationalisation, in particular the railways, was ridiculed Dave. People, rightly, questioned the need to nationalise everything (rail, water, energy) and give free broadband to all...and then the suggestion it wouldn’t cost the man on the street any more. Even if you believe the labour justifications for nationalisation (and the longer term cost benefit) the short term cost of renationalising whole industries, together with the cost of borrowing/impact on both governments borrowing rates would be huge.

Ps The only real relevant one on the list is rail. Energy companies is the same percentage on the list suggesting there isn’t an increased appetite for their nationalisation. Royal Mail is in a dying sector. Massive pension deficit from memory. Others on list are public owned apart from Telecoms which is only 35% anyway
How can you say taking control of water isn't relevant?
It's a finite resource which is currently being ran poorly, (See this week's Ofwat report), And lacks infrastructure investment even though the owners are still paying large dividends.
We should take it back in to public ownership and nstall thr grid sytem that was proposed prior to Thatcher selling it off.
Yes it's costly, 90 billion, but with a potential payback of 6 billion a year into the public purse. And with the climate issues we're facing it could become a very precious commodity.

I agree regarding energy and royal mail.