New Labour Leader (2 Viewers)

[SkyblueBazza]

Starmer is rich. He has his honours not through buying them though.

You can be good and worthy all you like but you don’t deserve *honours* until you’ve earned them and shouldn’t be able to short circuit with a cheque.

I swear you’re just arguing for the sake of it now, no one can be so dense as to not grasp the distinction.

That is just it...the 'buying' is something of the popular press really.

I reckon there is no need for an honours system anymore. If people are buying them they'd not be able to then would they?

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[clint van damme]

The masses have just accepted massive public investment, it was never a case of the policies being unacceptable it was stupid berks like you needing somebody in a smart suit to assure you it was the right thing to do

to be fair, Labour failed miserably at getting the message across last election. The policies were fine, in the main, as you said.
They were also hamstrung by their halfway house policy on the EU which was purely to appease the FBPE brigade.

 

[fernandopartridge]

to be fair, Labour failed miserably at getting the message across last election. The policies were fine, in the main, as you said.
They were also hamstrung by their halfway house policy on the EU which was purely to appease the FBPE brigade.

The architect of said policies being....

 

[clint van damme]

The architect of said policies being....

I'd always assumed it was a collaboration

 

[NorthernWisdom]

People simplify it in such words but many complicate it simply by assuming if they support the Tory party in any way - any grafting to make their own, or continue their inherithed wealth can then be ignored. The honour is bought or a result of who they know.

In reality nearly always a half decent reputation in the upper tier of business or any profession is usually die to an outstanding commitment of effort & an excelpently competent approach to their profession. Starmer included.

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No, it's perfectly simple.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Anneliese Dodd as shadow chancellor and lisa nandy as show foreign secretary. Nick Thomas Symmons replacing Abbott as Shadow Home Secretary. John Ashworth remains in role

I don’t know enough about the individuals but it does feel a stronger shadow front bench is being formed.

Any thoughts from those who do know more about the individuals ?

 

[Grendel]

Anneliese Dodd as shadow chancellor and lisa nandy as show foreign secretary. Nick Thomas Symmons replacing Abbott as Shadow Home Secretary. John Ashworth remains in role

I don’t know enough about the individuals but it does feel a stronger shadow front bench is being formed.

Any thoughts from those who do know more about the individuals ?

Dodds is a frantic remainer who said the last election result proved we should remain in the Eu

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

I’ll probably vote labour now decent appointments
Got rid of silly old grandpa now and his shifty front bench.
Onwards and upwards!!

 

[Ian1779]

I’ll probably vote labour now decent appointments
Got rid of silly old grandpa now and his shifty front bench.
Onwards and upwards!!

Might be worth seeing if they are actually any cop instead of assuming that they will be.

That said - welcome comrade!

 

[Liquid Gold]

I’ll probably vote labour now decent appointments
Got rid of silly old grandpa now and his shifty front bench.
Onwards and upwards!!

Let the red flag fly

 

[fernandopartridge]

Anneliese Dodd as shadow chancellor and lisa nandy as show foreign secretary. Nick Thomas Symmons replacing Abbott as Shadow Home Secretary. John Ashworth remains in role

I don’t know enough about the individuals but it does feel a stronger shadow front bench is being formed.

Any thoughts from those who do know more about the individuals ?

Heard nothing from any of them to be anything other than neutral, your ingrained bias showing there Steve.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Heard nothing from any of them to be anything other than neutral, your ingrained bias showing there Steve.

What do you mean Fernando ?

I’ve said previously I thought Nandy had come across well when I’ve seen/heard her. In terms of shadow chancellor, would I rather someone like McDonnell who is ideologically driven in that role (what has he ever done in relation business and economics ?) or someone who has studied it, had previous roles relating to it and who might not be so fixed in their views ?

As I say, I don’t know the individuals well so can’t comment more that that (hence the question, and why I could only say ‘feels’ like a stronger shadow front bench is being formed)

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

Let the red flag fly

Red and Skyblue sounds good to me!!

 

[fernandopartridge]

What do you mean Fernando ?

I’ve said previously I thought Nandy had come across well when I’ve seen/heard her. In terms of shadow chancellor, would I rather someone like McDonnell who is ideologically driven in that role (what has he ever done in relation business and economics ?) or someone who has studied it, had previous roles relating to it and who might not be so fixed in their views ?

As I say, I don’t know the individuals well so can’t comment more that that (hence the question, and why I could only say ‘feels’ like a stronger shadow front bench is being formed)

A country is not a business, I'm not sure what the fixation is. Businesses have a very very very narrow balance of interests. Mcdonnell had a pretty lengthy career before politics tbf to him

 

[shmmeee]

Anneliese Dodd as shadow chancellor and lisa nandy as show foreign secretary. Nick Thomas Symmons replacing Abbott as Shadow Home Secretary. John Ashworth remains in role

I don’t know enough about the individuals but it does feel a stronger shadow front bench is being formed.

Any thoughts from those who do know more about the individuals ?

This is a good summary: Keir Starmer keeps his friends close and his enemies closer in astute first reshuffle

 

[David O'Day]

What do you mean Fernando ?

I’ve said previously I thought Nandy had come across well when I’ve seen/heard her. In terms of shadow chancellor, would I rather someone like McDonnell who is ideologically driven in that role (what has he ever done in relation business and economics ?) or someone who has studied it, had previous roles relating to it and who might not be so fixed in their views ?

As I say, I don’t know the individuals well so can’t comment more that that (hence the question, and why I could only say ‘feels’ like a stronger shadow front bench is being formed)

Comparing macroeconomics to business is economically illiterate

 

[CCFCSteve]

A country is not a business, I'm not sure what the fixation is. Businesses have a very very very narrow balance of interests. Mcdonnell had a pretty lengthy career before politics tbf to him

I take the point but I’m just sharing my view as I don’t think I’m biased in the way you were thinking (maybe it’s justified bias in my mind !)

 

[CCFCSteve]

Comparing macroeconomics to business is economically illiterate

My point was more that, from my perspective, I consider its more important in that role, to have an understanding of economics (which Dodds appears to have) rather than fixed ideological views. Maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned business at all.

wish I’d never bothered posting now...was just sharing a first glimpse uninformed view !

 

[Ian1779]

My point was more that, from my perspective, I consider its more important in that role, to have an understanding of economics (which Dodds appears to have) rather than fixed ideological views. Maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned business at all.

wish I’d never bothered posting now...was just sharing a first glimpse uninformed view !

My only point was that because they weren’t Corbyn appointments people (and I mean the ‘political’ commentators)are waxing lyrical about their capability with little or no evidence to support it.


On reflection I’m happy with his appointment if he does what he says he will. The main thing that has irritated me this weekend has been listening to people saying “the grown ups are back in charge” - it’s embarrassing and completely missing the point about unity going forward.

 

[shmmeee]

My only point was that because they weren’t Corbyn appointments people (and I mean the ‘political’ commentators)are waxing lyrical about their capability with little or no evidence to support it.


On reflection I’m happy with his appointment if he does what he says he will. The main thing that has irritated me this weekend has been listening to people saying “the grown ups are back in charge” - it’s embarrassing and completely missing the point about unity going forward.

The left needs to get serious about winning elections. Problem is when they do that they become the soft left or even the right. But the schoolboy errors of the last five years need cutting out. It gives too much ammo to those like you mention. Simple stuff like party organisation and election strategy aren’t the preserve of a particular ideology.

Basically it needs to start wearing a suit and looking at voter groups it can win and refining its message. I think the problem is paranoia about those outside “the project”, which becomes self fulfilling.

It’s understandable on both sides TBF. The left have been fucked over and have been denied the chance to grow talent safely. The right have witnessed spectacular fuck ups because of inexperience/lack of ability that they want to avoid.

God knows how you resolve it at this point.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I take the point but I’m just sharing my view as I don’t think I’m biased in the way you were thinking (maybe it’s justified bias in my mind !)

Fair enough pal, you may well be right in the end

 

[clint van damme]

I didn't realise it was Rachael Reeves at the centre of that Nancy Astor controversy a while back.
It's incredible how anti semitism gets brushed under the carpet when there's a Tory or a centrist involved.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I didn't realise it was Rachael Reeves at the centre of that Nancy Astor controversy a while back.
It's incredible how anti semitism gets brushed under the carpet when there's a Tory or a centrist involved.

I've just read her wiki profile, another Oxbridge PPE graduate. Excellent.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The left needs to get serious about winning elections. Problem is when they do that they become the soft left or even the right. But the schoolboy errors of the last five years need cutting out. It gives too much ammo to those like you mention. Simple stuff like party organisation and election strategy aren’t the preserve of a particular ideology.

Basically it needs to start wearing a suit and looking at voter groups it can win and refining its message. I think the problem is paranoia about those outside “the project”, which becomes self fulfilling.

It’s understandable on both sides TBF. The left have been fucked over and have been denied the chance to grow talent safely. The right have witnessed spectacular fuck ups because of inexperience/lack of ability that they want to avoid.

God knows how you resolve it at this point.

I think Starmer succeeds in ‘looking prime ministerial’ and one thinks his legal background will help him land some zingers at PMQs. It’s all about appearances and if it takes being matey with the press so that we get more boomers and dumbasses onside then so be it.

The manifesto can still be 2017 revisited, nobody reads it anyway and yes I am a cynical bastard.

 

[Grendel]

I think Starmer succeeds in ‘looking prime ministerial’ and one thinks his legal background will help him land some zingers at PMQs. It’s all about appearances and if it takes being matey with the press so that we get more boomers and dumbasses onside then so be it.

The manifesto can still be 2017 revisited, nobody reads it anyway and yes I am a cynical bastard.

He needs to get his answers quickly on Brexit and ensure he doesn’t start muttering well may return to the Eu or he’s dead in the water

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He needs to get his answers quickly on Brexit and ensure he doesn’t start muttering well may return to the Eu or he’s dead in the water

I think before he’s said he thinks Brexit is crap but got to make the best of it

 

[Skybluefaz]

Good move

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

McDonnell was a whingeing little twat who has achieved nothing and had nothing positive to say about anything. "Opposition for the sake of opposition" as Starmer said he would avoid in his speech on Saturday.

 

[David O'Day]

McDonnell was a whingeing little twat who has achieved nothing and had nothing positive to say about anything. "Opposition for the sake of opposition" as Starmer said he would avoid in his speech on Saturday.

Apart from being right about the need to properly fund pu liv services

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[David O'Day]

He needs to get his answers quickly on Brexit and ensure he doesn’t start muttering well may return to the Eu or he’s dead in the water

No one gives a rats anymore

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[fernandopartridge]

McDonnell was a whingeing little twat who has achieved nothing and had nothing positive to say about anything. "Opposition for the sake of opposition" as Starmer said he would avoid in his speech on Saturday.

Or opposition for the sake of what has now become even more obvious, that the economy only really functions due to a mass of low or relatively low paid employees in both public and private sectors which actually have far more value than previously recognised. The sort of centrist non-entities you seem to favour would nod a long saying "We've got to think about what's good for business..."

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Or opposition for the sake of what has now become even more obvious, that the economy only really functions due to a mass of low or relatively low paid employees in both public and private sectors which actually have far more value than previously recognised. The sort of centrist non-entities you seem to favour would nod a long saying "We've got to think about what's good for business..."

Respectfully, I don't recall ever saying anything on here about who i favour, Labour party or otherwise. You must have confused me with someone else. FWIW, there has been no leader of the Labour party worthy of my vote since John Smith died before his time. Bliar undermined the party's socialist principles so utterly that people have forgotten what it's about. Starmer is from exactly the same mould, it seems to me.

EDIT: Just seen he's even appointed Falconer as shadow Attorney General. And people accuse the Tories of croneyism!

 

[Grendel]

The idiot returns

Ed Miliband returns to Labour top team

 

[David O'Day]

The idiot returns

Ed Miliband returns to Labour top team

You don't have to announce you posting grenners

 

[Spurs 'City Away Kit' Kit]

What do you mean Fernando ?

I’ve said previously I thought Nandy had come across well when I’ve seen/heard her. In terms of shadow chancellor, would I rather someone like McDonnell who is ideologically driven in that role (what has he ever done in relation business and economics ?) or someone who has studied it, had previous roles relating to it and who might not be so fixed in their views ?

As I say, I don’t know the individuals well so can’t comment more that that (hence the question, and why I could only say ‘feels’ like a stronger shadow front bench is being formed)

I agree that it feels like a stronger shadow cabinet and it looks like the extreme socialists are out of the key roles and replaced by those with a bit more intellectual clout. Moving the party back towards the centre can only be a good thing as it will make them more credible and more aligned with the views of a much broader section of the British public. Having a strong, credible, opposition keeps the party in power more honest as there is a genuine alternative waiting in the wings, something that I don't think was ever there under Corbyn.

On a more immature note I thought that the shadow international development secretary (Barry Gardiner) was one of the weakest politicians I had ever seen interviewed and he's been replaced by Emily Thornberry who I struggle to describe without dropping the c-bomb.