New Coventry City FC stadium plan seems 'crazy', says football finance expert (1 Viewer)

Grendel · Mar 21, 2015

dongonzalos said:
Because this is the line he said about that note the "maybe and the "but"

“If the team gets back into the Championship, maybe then they should look at building a new stadium, but what they have got seems like a pretty good deal to me."

This is the other line he said

Coventry City owners’ plans to build a new stadium seem “crazy”,

Which is more compelling of his opinion?

He has no reputation for being an expert does he?

He is talking twaddle is a Cnut and is generally a laughing stock on fans forums.

Also he lectures at the academic excellence that is Sheffield Hallam.

dongonzalos · Mar 21, 2015

The bbc seem to use him as their main go to man when football finance is discussed.
He seems very well respected

shmmeee · Mar 21, 2015

Grendel said:
He has no reputation for being an expert does he?

He is talking twaddle is a Cnut and is generally a laughing stock on fans forums.

Also he lectures at the academic excellence that is Sheffield Hallam.

Grendel · Mar 21, 2015

dongonzalos said:
The bbc seem to use him as their main ho to man when football finance is discussed.
He seems very well respected

shmmeee said:

I'm quoting our own fans ok the other thread.

dongonzalos · Mar 21, 2015

I'm quoting the BBC

Grendel · Mar 21, 2015

dongonzalos said:
I'm quoting the BBC

In all seriousness I wouldn't be too sucked in if I were you by that.

We used to contract a guy to do motor economic forecasting. He was bloody useless - forgot new model intros crap ageing methodology. We got rid of him and I did it myself.

Couple of years later he was on the bbc news discussing the industry as a motor expert.

Saw him at some conference and ribbed him about it, he said even he couldn't believe they'd asked him.

lordsummerisle · Mar 21, 2015

Not forgetting the taxi driver waiting to pick somebody up from BBC reception who they put on the news as an IT expert.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Mar 21, 2015

Grendel said:
He has no reputation for being an expert does he?

He is talking twaddle is a Cnut and is generally a laughing stock on fans forums.

Also he lectures at the academic excellence that is Sheffield Hallam.

So who is right somebody from Sheffield Hallam or somebody from London Leisure College? Tough choice I would say,wouldn't you?

skybluetony176 · Mar 21, 2015

Forget what the "experts" say, it's not something we didn't all know anyway.

What we need our owners to do is offer us some stability and the quickest way to do that is negotiate a ten year deal at the Ricoh before Wasps realise that they don't need us. Strike while the iron is hot and get the best deal now. Let's face it, even if SISU do come up with a believable master plan to build a new stadium in a location that the vast majority of the fan base (lost, current and future) will accept it's still ten years away before it's completed and we move in.

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 21, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
Forget what the "experts" say, it's not something we didn't all know anyway.

Glad you agree we need our own ground to be attractive to investors.

martcov · Mar 21, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
Glad you agree we need our own ground to be attractive to investors.

If a SISU company owns the new ground and Sets the Rent, do you think Investors will come Running to buy CCFC? I don't.

Tonylinc · Mar 21, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
Glad you agree we need our own ground to be attractive to investors.

Leaving aside any talk of a sale, what will owning our own ground mean?

skybluetony176 · Mar 21, 2015

Tonylinc said:
Leaving aside any talk of a sale, what will owning our own ground mean?

It will probably mean SISU have fucked off and some proper owners have come in and built us a stadium because it isn't something SISU are capable of delivering.

Rusty Trombone · Mar 21, 2015

martcov said:
If a SISU company owns the new ground and Sets the Rent, do you think Investors will come Running to buy CCFC? I don't.

In this hypothetical scenario the clubs new owners could ask ACL and SISU to put forward their best rent offer to the club. With two stadiums in competition we should get a good deal.

Tonylinc · Mar 21, 2015

The point which I am trying to make is that a new tinpot stadium is unlikely to make any more money that can be generated by staying at the Ricoh.

stupot07 · Mar 21, 2015

martcov said:
If a SISU company owns the new ground and Sets the Rent, do you think Investors will come Running to buy CCFC? I don't.

Surely the point is, new investors would come and buy both the stadium management company and the football club off Sisu.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

stupot07 · Mar 21, 2015

Tonylinc said:
The point which I am trying to make is that a new tinpot stadium is unlikely to make any more money that can be generated by staying at the Ricoh.

And yet, staying at the Ricoh under the currently arrangements little/limited revenues mean that we have one of the lowest turnovers in the championship should we ever gain promotion.

Rock and hard place.

Let's not write something off before we have actually seen a business case (not that I believe that we will built a stadium).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Mar 21, 2015

stupot07 said:
And yet, staying at the Ricoh under the currently arrangements little/limited revenues mean that we have one of the lowest turnovers in the championship should we ever gain promotion.

Rock and hard place.

Let's not write something off before we have actually seen a business case (not that I believe that we will built a stadium).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Isn't this where the graph showing we have the third/fourth lowest turnovers ,but doesn't show our turnover is put up?

stupot07 · Mar 21, 2015

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Isn't this where the graph showing we have the third/fourth lowest turnovers ,but doesn't show our turnover is put up?

You mean our turnover wasn't on the graph? We know what our turnover was and we know that only 3 teams had a lower one.

Do you really need to see it in a graph to believe it?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Mar 21, 2015

stupot07 said:
You mean our turnover wasn't on the graph? We know what our turnover was and we know that only 3 teams had a lower one.

Do you really need to see it in a graph to believe it?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

You do? I dont, post it up then in the same format as the rest on the graph otherwise your statement is meaningless.

stupot07 · Mar 21, 2015

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
You do? I dont, post it up then in the same format as the rest on the graph otherwise your statement is meaningless.

Source:
Our turnover: http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/42971-Sky-Blue-Sports-amp-Leisure-2013-accounts
Other clubs turnover: http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/championship-finances-201112-numbers.html?m=1

martcov · Mar 21, 2015

Rusty Trombone said:
In this hypothetical scenario the clubs new owners could ask ACL and SISU to put forward their best rent offer to the club. With two stadiums in competition we should get a good deal.

In theory. What if SISU tie CCFC to their stadium through some contract? SISU's only interest is a Return ( or recovery ) for their Investors. The Investors won't Invest without some guarantee of a Return.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 21, 2015

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-announce-annual-loss-6780753
The accounts cover a time period before the club’s move away from the Ricoh Arena and the groundshare at Northampton Town's Sixfields Stadium, and show the club’s turnover diminished from £10.83m in 2012 to £6.57m.

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider...y-city-losses-widen-auditors-express-concern/
Accounts for Coventry City Football Club Ltd show a pre-tax loss of £6.7m and a turnover of £10.3m, compared with a loss of £3m and turnover of £9.3m in 2010.

We're not included in because I assume at the time (predictably) we hadn't filed our accounts. It was why we were in embargo for the beginning of the 13/14 season

martcov · Mar 21, 2015

stupot07 said:
Surely the point is, new investors would come and buy both the stadium management company and the football club off Sisu.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

The value of which ( stadium management company ) would be governed by the site, capacity, non Match day Revenues and Rent. i don't see much value and still think that this all about Real Estat.

Astute · Mar 22, 2015

martcov said:
The value of which ( stadium management company ) would be governed by the site, capacity, non Match day Revenues and Rent. i don't see much value and still think that this all about Real Estat.

Real estate? More like fantasy estate.

shy_tall_knight · Mar 23, 2015

I'm not sure there is much financial common senses in investing 330 m on a stadium for a club hoping that you can recoup that plus all some of the other losses when you sell the club. SISU not going to take the risk hence the progress to date is a few diagrams and a lot of hot air

As for the 2011/12 accounts our crowds were awful that year, we were out of both cups at the first hurdle with a total of 12,000 fans watching both games, our commercial activities are probably awful due to the low morale and poor management. Our revenue is not that far off Forest & Ipswich, a lot of the clubs with the real big revenue received the parachute payments also.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 23, 2015

parachute payments are in red so all the clubs receiving parachute payments would still have been ahead of us

http://www.statbunker.com/competitions/HomeAttendance?comp_id=370

Here is average attendances

We averaged 15k, Milwall, Watford, Bristol, Blackpool, Burnley all managed to have better revenues (even without parachutes) than us despite all having less attendances.

You make valid points I guess though about commercial activities being low because of poor management/morale and also no cup runs, not sure how damaging that would be overall though.

LilleSkyBlue · Mar 23, 2015

Looking at those 2011-12 attendances, six of the bottom ten, including us, now play at least a league below. Of the other four, Millwall and Blackpool are probably coming down from the Championship this year.

Burnley and Watford being the exceptions. What have they done right?

oldskyblue58 · Mar 23, 2015

Think you need to be careful about the data compared

for the year to 31/05/12 (2011/12)CCFC turnover for CCFC was split as follows

Match receipts £3,550,702
Commercial income £7,275,282

CCFC Ltd nor CCFC H did not file accounts but SBS&L did and the info is in those figures

for 2012/13 the figures are

Matchday revenue £2,996,143
Commercial £ 3,575,626 (first year in L1)

for 2013/14

Matchday revenues (Sixfields) £1,140,759
Commercial revenues £2,614,290

These figures exclude any profits on sale of players

It would seem that commercial income is worth at least £3.5m more in the Championship. Apparently though according to the directors the only income received by the club for the last few years has been the match day income? Commercial income is defined in the accounts as TV, Sponsorship, advertising, club lottery, shop and other promotional income. Add to that now 50% of F&B and parking apparently.

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 23, 2015

The commercial revenues held up better than I expected!

In a wider context, there aren't many matchday revenues to lose, are there...

oldskyblue58 · Mar 23, 2015

I would guess matchday incomes at Ricoh this season would be in excess of 1.5m

There is a connection between success, crowds and commercial obviously but you really would still have to question the clubs marketing strategy, performance and abilities. It has been a shambles far too often this season. Have they maximised the commercial income opportunities?

letsallsingtogether · Mar 23, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
I would guess matchday incomes at Ricoh this season would be in excess of 1.5m

There is a connection between success, crowds and commercial obviously but you really would still have to question the clubs marketing strategy, performance and abilities. It has been a shambles far too often this season. Have they maximised the commercial income opportunities?

They could start by stocking the shelves in the shop and even getting a small shop at ricoh or sharing with the Wasps as they did at Wycombe.

New Coventry City FC stadium plan seems 'crazy', says football finance expert (1 Viewer)

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