Motor Vehicle for Robins (1 Viewer)

Nick · Feb 5, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Of course it is you idiot.

The feel good factor is in spite of the owners not because of them. You get past the supporters, the squad, Robins himself, the coaching staff and given the benefit of doubt Boddy as well there’s nothing.

Tim Fisher is a negative presence as are the owners. They have nothing to bring to the club other than negativity. Clubs that overachieve like Accrington don’t have this. It’s about the sum of all parts and one vital component in that is missing, so Robins has to overcome it, it ties his hands as he has to compensate for it in other ways. They tie his hands by not supporting him like owners who care about the club and through their of field actions that create uncertainty they tie them again.

The football business is still a business and a business with neglectful owners will always struggle regardless of how capable the employees are. Negativity always always filters down.

So why weren't they tied when we beat Stoke, Luton, Notts County etc and why are they suddenly tied when we play the teams at the bottom? Yep, a court case for example may put people off going, that will bring money to him down so I can see that point. However it will still be more than other clubs we have lost to.

He has brought in Widdrington to do the recruitment side which has been positive so far. Of course he won't have massive amounts of money and won't have as much like Luton as one example but in terms of resources to do his job as a football manager he has more than enough for League 2 this season. Will he if we got promoted? I wouldn't be as sure on that as I am that he does this season.

If we don't go up this season I don't think it should be instant dismissal like others have said, however if he keeps doing silly stuff like Saturday then questions do need to be asked.

There really is no excuse for him to not get a playoff place this season as a minimum.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Feb 5, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Of course it is you idiot.

The feel good factor is in spite of the owners not because of them. You get past the supporters, the squad, Robins himself, the coaching staff and given the benefit of doubt Boddy as well there’s nothing.

Tim Fisher is a negative presence as are the owners. They have nothing to bring to the club other than negativity. Clubs that overachieve like Accrington don’t have this. It’s about the sum of all parts and one vital component in that is missing, so Robins has to overcome it, it ties his hands as he has to compensate for it in other ways. They tie his hands by not supporting him like owners who care about the club and through their of field actions that create uncertainty they tie them again.

The football business is still a business and a business with neglectful owners will always struggle regardless of how capable the employees are. Negativity always always filters down.

When we were third in the table (about 2 weeks ago or whatever) was anyone saying well done SISU? No, they weren't. It's the same with this now.

Yes SISU are a problem and I'm the furthest thing away from an apologist but at this moment in time they are not the reason we lost to FGR.

skybluetony176 · Feb 5, 2018

Nick said:
So why weren't they tied when we beat Stoke, Luton, Notts County etc and why are they suddenly tied when we play the teams at the bottom? Yep, a court case for example may put people off going, that will bring money to him down so I can see that point. However it will still be more than other clubs we have lost to.

He has brought in Widdrington to do the recruitment side which has been positive so far. Of course he won't have massive amounts of money and won't have as much like Luton as one example but in terms of resources to do his job as a football manager he has more than enough for League 2 this season. Will he if we got promoted? I wouldn't be as sure on that as I am that he does this season.

If we don't go up this season I don't think it should be instant dismissal like others have said, however if he keeps doing silly stuff like Saturday then questions do need to be asked.

There really is no excuse for him to not get a playoff place this season as a minimum.

Because he’s overcome them in spite of the owners. Same as you can’t measure him as a failure on the result of one game you can’t measure him on the success of one game. If Accrington’s owner and the positivity he brings to the club is worth a few points a season to the team then it stands to reason the the negativity that Fisher and SISU bring to the club costs us a few points a season. It’s the knock on effect of ownership and the responsibility that entails or should entail.

Look at Mowbray. Our decline coencided with the departure of Waggot and the arrival of Anderson. Coincidence? Who made that decision? I wouldn’t trust them to run a bath let alone something as complicated as a football club.

We can’t keep blaming managers and ignoring the bigger picture and the bigger issues, especially when the reality is that on balance over the season Robins is doing a good job all things (including and especially the zombie owners) considered.

fernandopartridge · Feb 5, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Because he’s overcome them in spite of the owners. Same as you can’t measure him as a failure on the result of one game you can’t measure him on the success of one game. If Accrington’s owner and the positivity he brings to the club is worth a few points a season to the team then it stands to reason the the negativity that Fisher and SISU bring to the club costs us a few points a season. It’s the knock on effect of ownership and the responsibility that entails or should entail.

Look at Mowbray. Our decline coencided with the departure of Waggot and the arrival of Anderson. Coincidence? Who made that decision? I wouldn’t trust them to run a bath let alone something as complicated as a football club.

We can’t keep blaming managers and ignoring the bigger picture and the bigger issues, especially when the reality is that on balance over the season Robins is doing a good job all things (including and especially the zombie owners) considered.

Anderson is well regarded in football circles, he wasn't a bad appointment per se and had nothing to do with the decline in form.

Nick · Feb 5, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Because he’s overcome them in spite of the owners. Same as you can’t measure him as a failure on the result of one game you can’t measure him on the success of one game. If Accrington’s owner and the positivity he brings to the club is worth a few points a season to the team then it stands to reason the the negativity that Fisher and SISU bring to the club costs us a few points a season. It’s the knock on effect of ownership and the responsibility that entails or should entail.

Look at Mowbray. Our decline coencided with the departure of Waggot and the arrival of Anderson. Coincidence? Who made that decision? I wouldn’t trust them to run a bath let alone something as complicated as a football club.

We can’t keep blaming managers and ignoring the bigger picture and the bigger issues, especially when the reality is that on balance over the season Robins is doing a good job all things (including and especially the zombie owners) considered.

Nobody ignores the bigger pictures, on the other hand we can't excuse managers tactical decisions based on it. How far do we take it? Burge makes a howler because he is worried about where we are playing next season? McNulty misses a sitter because he doesn't know where the academy will be?

I don't ignore when we win games, I give Robins both credit and say when I think he has got things wrong. When we are winning I have never once given the owners credit for it either.

Managers can be blamed when they get things wrong in a game. It's all this "you cant mention it, his hands are tied" nonsense that doesn't work, as Italia is a prime example of.

skybluetony176 · Feb 5, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
When we were third in the table (about 2 weeks ago or whatever) was anyone saying well done SISU? No, they weren't. It's the same with this now.

Yes SISU are a problem and I'm the furthest thing away from an apologist but at this moment in time they are not the reason we lost to FGR.

Is the FGR result the pivotal thing in our season? No! Are our owners pivotal to the success of the club? No! But they should be. Are they pivotal to our clubs decline? Absolutely! If promotion happens this season it will be in no way thanks to the owners and the FGR result in isolation will be irrelevant and therefore irrelevant as to the future of the manager.

italiahorse · Feb 5, 2018

Nick said:
Yet it has nothing to do with our system, line ups and tactics and its all the owners?

Simple really for me.
No strength in depth so unable to change tactics.
Owners not doing what good owners do.

Nick · Feb 5, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Is the FGR result the pivotal thing in our season? No! Are our owners pivotal to the success of the club? No! But they should be. Are they pivotal to our clubs decline? Absolutely! If promotion happens this season it will be in no way thanks to the owners and the FGR result in isolation will be irrelevant and therefore irrelevant as to the future of the manager.

Nobody is saying it would be thanks to the owners are they? It wouldn't just be the FGR result if Robins keeps tactically getting things wrong and it isn't the first time.

Nick · Feb 5, 2018

italiahorse said:
Simple really for me.
No strength in depth so unable to change tactics.
Owners not doing what good owners do.

We have the joint 2nd biggest squad in the league.

We changed tactics between Cambridge and FGR to move players out of their position.

skybluetony176 · Feb 5, 2018

Nick said:
Nobody ignores the bigger pictures, on the other hand we can't excuse managers tactical decisions based on it. How far do we take it? Burge makes a howler because he is worried about where we are playing next season? McNulty misses a sitter because he doesn't know where the academy will be?

I don't ignore when we win games, I give Robins both credit and say when I think he has got things wrong. When we are winning I have never once given the owners credit for it either.

Managers can be blamed when they get things wrong in a game. It's all this "you cant mention it, his hands are tied" nonsense that doesn't work, as Italia is a prime example of.

You ignore it constantly and demonstrated it perfectly on this thread and then give it the what, who, me routine. I’m not even the only one to notice it although NW clearly doesn’t have the time and energy to point out to you your ignorance like me.

italiahorse · Feb 5, 2018

Nick said:
Nobody ignores the bigger pictures, on the other hand we can't excuse managers tactical decisions based on it. How far do we take it? Burge makes a howler because he is worried about where we are playing next season? McNulty misses a sitter because he doesn't know where the academy will be?

I don't ignore when we win games, I give Robins both credit and say when I think he has got things wrong. When we are winning I have never once given the owners credit for it either.

Managers can be blamed when they get things wrong in a game. It's all this "you cant mention it, his hands are tied" nonsense that doesn't work, as Italia is a prime example of.

So the team is good enough in your mind and has strength in depth ?
The owners have put enough money into the squad ?

Nick · Feb 5, 2018

italiahorse said:
So the team is good enough in your mind and has strength in depth ?
The owners have put enough money into the squad ?

We have one of the biggest squads in the league, yes we are good enough for playoffs as a minimum.

italiahorse · Feb 5, 2018

Nick said:
We have the joint 2nd biggest squad in the league.

We changed tactics between Cambridge and FGR to move players out of their position.

Lets get 3 times the squad next year then. Bound to go straight into the Championship ?
It's quality we need not quantity.

Nick · Feb 5, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
You ignore it constantly and demonstrated it perfectly on this thread and then give it the what, who, me routine. I’m not even the only one to notice it although NW clearly doesn’t have the time and energy to point out to you your ignorance like me.

And neither you, NW or Italia will comment at the end of a game saying what went wrong tactically on the pitch and why we lost the game. Italia is trying now bless him.

It's all well and good saying his hands are tied over and over but they clearly aren't as much as people want to point out.

skybluetony176 · Feb 5, 2018

Nick said:
Nobody is saying it would be thanks to the owners are they? It wouldn't just be the FGR result if Robins keeps tactically getting things wrong and it isn't the first time.

The majority of decisions he makes are tactically correct. Given where we are in the league. So to say he keeps getting things tactically wrong is nonsense. If that were true we’d be in a relegation battle.

Nick · Feb 5, 2018

italiahorse said:
Lets get 3 times the squad next year then. Bound to go straight into the Championship ?
It's quality we need not quantity.

We have the quality, we have beaten all of the top teams.

italiahorse · Feb 5, 2018

Nick said:
We have one of the biggest squads in the league, yes we are good enough for playoffs as a minimum.

Okay. I'll give up and look forward to Wembley.
Didn't you also say last year the squad was good enough to stay up ?

Nick · Feb 5, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
The majority of decisions he makes are tactically correct. Given where we are in the league. So to say he keeps getting things tactically wrong is nonsense. If that were true we’d be in a relegation battle.

Are they? Which ones?

He put Bayliss in because of an injury to Kelly, we had an upturn in form.

We trail games and he persists with 2 defensive midfielders.

The stats showing our results against lower teams compared to top teams say it's tactical.

Nick · Feb 5, 2018

italiahorse said:
Okay. I'll give up and look forward to Wembley.
Didn't you also say last year the squad was good enough to stay up ?

The squad last year should have stayed up, while I am pointing out Robins gets things wrong if we had him all season we would have stayed up.

You say we don't have the squad to make changes, why did he makes changes to the team that won and the midfield combo that has performed better?

italiahorse · Feb 5, 2018

Nick said:
We have the quality, we have beaten all of the top teams.

.... and lost to all the ones at the bottom.

italiahorse · Feb 5, 2018

Nick said:
The squad last year should have stayed up, while I am pointing out Robins gets things wrong if we had him all season we would have stayed up.

I rest my case.

Nick · Feb 5, 2018

italiahorse said:
.... and lost to all the ones at the bottom.

Which clearly says it's our system and the way he sets us up whereas the other teams at the top won't go to FGR looking for a draw.

skybluetony176 · Feb 5, 2018

Nick said:
And neither you, NW or Italia will comment at the end of a game saying what went wrong tactically on the pitch and why we lost the game. Italia is trying now bless him.

It's all well and good saying his hands are tied over and over but they clearly aren't as much as people want to point out.

And there it is. The old you don’t comment on match thread line. The reason I don’t do it is because I know when you bring it up that I don’t it means that you won’t concede the point even though you know my point is valid. Nice one.

Nick · Feb 5, 2018

italiahorse said:
I rest my case.

Maybe you can keep trying to talk football and I can keep correcting you?

Nick · Feb 5, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
And there it is. The old you don’t comment on match thread line. The reason I don’t do it is because I know when you bring it up that I don’t it means that you won’t concede the point even though you know my point is valid. Nice one.

I haven't said that, I am saying talking about tactics and the football. and why people have issues with Robins.

It's all well and good on a thread about the manager saying how his hands are tied, people are talking about mistakes that are within his hands. They aren't blaming him for the Academy, the Ricoh etc. They are pointing out things about the setup and the team he puts out.

I've also said I don't want him sacked, I just want him to stop being stubborn and learn from things like FGR and other games like that.

Deleted member 5849 · Feb 5, 2018

Nick said:
It's all well and good saying his hands are tied over and over

Well you asked how they were tied, so I responded.

Then you change what you're arguing about, because you don't like the answer that his hands are tied, and claim certain of us are saying it over and over, when the only reason I even responded is because you asked how they were tied!

italiahorse · Feb 5, 2018

Nick said:
Maybe you can keep trying to talk football and I can keep correcting you?

Somehow I can't accept people saying the squad is good enough all the way from the PL to the Conference.
It's always the managers fault, so we sack them and abuse them.
Simple for me in that I see the common denominator in all this.
It is underfunding of the squad by the owners.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Feb 5, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Is the FGR result the pivotal thing in our season? No! Are our owners pivotal to the success of the club? No! But they should be. Are they pivotal to our clubs decline? Absolutely! If promotion happens this season it will be in no way thanks to the owners and the FGR result in isolation will be irrelevant and therefore irrelevant as to the future of the manager.

So if we get relegated it is SISU's fault, but if we get promoted it is nothing to do with SISU? I'm not sure you are quite right with that one...

Sure, what the owners do is largely negative in comparison to their positive influence, but this season with the team that they have funded you cannot say they shouldn't be a top 7 squad really. Injuries have been massively unlucky as it has been our best players, but where we are currently sitting is ok. It's so tight a win and suddenly people will shut up again as we will climb several places.

I don't normally agree with Nick when he has a SISU love-in (joke), but he's right on this one. Overall we are doing fine and players like Biamou are not missing the goal because they are protesting against our move to Northampton in 2013.

Nick · Feb 5, 2018

Deleted member 5849 said:
Well you asked how they were tied, so I responded.

Then you change what you're arguing about, because you don't like the answer that his hands are tied, and claim certain of us are saying it over and over, when the only reason I even responded is because you asked how they were tied!

I did say when it comes to being on the pitch which none of those were We undoubtedly have a better squad then a lot of other teams in the league, without injuries it would be even better with Jones and Andreu who would be starting. They are still being paid so can't be forgetten about.

I didn't mean you saying it over and over either.

Deleted member 5849 · Feb 5, 2018

Or to repeat once again...

I know we go round this circle every so often, being city fans, but there's always the old philosophy of Brian Clough, who reckoned if a manager needed sacking, then the board who appointed him needed to go too, as they clearly couldn't judge what was a good manager.

It's also true that just about every manager we've tried in recent years has had success somewhere... but the downward spiral continues with the club, regardless. The constant of course is always who owns the club.

Now, that doesn't invalidate your analysis of Robins's strengths and weaknesses, not in the slightest. Fans of Barnsley said to expect a negative manager and it seems to be in his make-up to build from a position of 'don't lose' first. That being said, given the level we're at it's not altogether surprising that managers have flaws too, much as players do.

And those flaws would have been obvious to any clued-up owners too, and they'd judge he was the man despite those flaws.

The path to madness is doing the same thing time over time again, and it's probably why most football clubs end up lurching from crisis to crisis as they go for the easy option, sacking the manager.

Personally I feel we absolutly have to get promotion this season, or the downward trend will threaten to carry on again. That being said, if we don't...there may indeed be flaws we can point to with Robins, but the culture of the club suggests it's more that any success we get is despite of the club we are, rather than because. Robins is the least of our worries or concerns if we fail yet again.

italiahorse · Feb 5, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
So if we get relegated it is SISU's fault, but if we get promoted it is nothing to do with SISU? I'm not sure you are quite right with that one...

Sure, what the owners do is largely negative in comparison to their positive influence, but this season with the team that they have funded you cannot say they shouldn't be a top 7 squad really. Injuries have been massively unlucky as it has been our best players, but where we are currently sitting is ok. It's so tight a win and suddenly people will shut up again as we will climb several places.

I don't normally agree with Nick when he has a SISU love-in (joke), but he's right on this one. Overall we are doing fine and players like Biamou are not missing the goal because they are protesting against our move to Northampton in 2013.

We have only seen relegation.
If the owners do what they should that might change.
Unfortunately, as usual come January the wheels fall of the bus through lack of quality in depth.

It was the defence that lost it for us on Saturday.
Other than Willis they are naive and inexperienced.
Ball watching and following the ball while players ran into space.
It's not just this match.
No, we have had some luck but it's not going to last.

Nick · Feb 5, 2018

italiahorse said:
Somehow I can't accept people saying the squad is good enough all the way from the PL to the Conference.
It's always the managers fault, so we sack them and abuse them.
Simple for me in that I see the common denominator in all this.
It is underfunding of the squad by the owners.

When the manager gets the line up, the system and the team wrong then of course it's his fault? The same as when he gets it right we win a game and I praise him.

You have said we don't have the depth, yet we have a massive squad.
You have said he isn't to blame for tactics as he doesnt have the players, yet he changed a winning lineup to one that was proven didnt work.

oucho · Feb 5, 2018

Whilst we are one of the theoretically stronger sides, we shouldn't EXPECT promotion. We've done well this season even if there is room for improvement from MR. I won't be heartbroken if we don't go up provided we see a long term improvement in the club and its trajectory.

Nick · Feb 5, 2018

italiahorse said:
We have only seen relegation.
If the owners do what they should that might change.
Unfortunately, as usual come January the wheels fall of the bus through lack of quality in depth.

You keep saying lack of quality in depth... How?

Nick · Feb 5, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
So if we get relegated it is SISU's fault, but if we get promoted it is nothing to do with SISU? I'm not sure you are quite right with that one...

Sure, what the owners do is largely negative in comparison to their positive influence, but this season with the team that they have funded you cannot say they shouldn't be a top 7 squad really. Injuries have been massively unlucky as it has been our best players, but where we are currently sitting is ok. It's so tight a win and suddenly people will shut up again as we will climb several places.

I don't normally agree with Nick when he has a SISU love-in (joke), but he's right on this one. Overall we are doing fine and players like Biamou are not missing the goal because they are protesting against our move to Northampton in 2013.

Even there you are wrong though, I wouldn't say they have funded this the same as they didn't fund the recruitment drive in the summer.

League 2 has meant we are much more competitive amongst the other teams naturally off our own (ccfc) back.

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