Mark Robins (4 Viewers)

[Ring Of Steel]

But the international never won a trophy with us or got promoted? I believe this is what you’ve said makes a good manager

Thats right, the hallmark of a great manager is someone who gets selected to play for England while with the club. Robins might not be in bad shape for his age but I think you might have yourself a bit mixed up on this one.

 

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[SlowerThanPlatt]

Thats right, the hallmark of a great manager is someone who gets selected to play for England while with the club. Robins might not be in bad shape for his age but I think you might have yourself a bit mixed up on this one.

That’s not what I said

Do you think in a CCFC all time voted 11 McNulty (who won a trophy and got promoted) would get as many votes as Dublin (finished mid table)?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

That’s not what I said

Do you think in a CCFC all time voted 11 McNulty (who won a trophy and got promoted) would get as many votes as Dublin (finished mid table)?

No. And if you had an all time voted top managers, Phil Neal, Ron Atkinson & Gordon Strachan would not (quite rightly) get as many votes as Mark Robins.

With that in mind, what is your point? You are comparing apples & oranges and getting all confused.

 

[shmmeee]

That’s not what I said

Do you think in a CCFC all time voted 11 McNulty (who won a trophy and got promoted) would get as many votes as Dublin (finished mid table)?

Why are you talking about individual players in a thread about managers? It’s apples and oranges.

 

[clint van damme]

The day that Mark Robins came back was the start of the upswing. 23rd in League One under Russell Slade was the nadir. Never before has there been so much apathy, such a disconnect between club & fans and such constant garbage shown on the pitch week after week.

Is anyone arguing with that though I'm certainly not.

 

[Grendel]

See my other reply to Grendel. It’s a multifaceted metric and any singular data point will fall short.

In other words this whole thread is pointless. Entertaining. But pointless.

Yes it’s entirely subjective

I think people’s opinions may be influenced by age

I guess when I look back I’m pretty lucky to have supported a team that for 30 seasons or so played in the top flight. The managers who achieved that often had little talent or resource

That said I’m assuming the poster whose arguing on the other side is actually older than me

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Is anyone arguing with that though I'm certainly not.

Grendel just did.

 

[clint van damme]

See my other reply to Grendel. It’s a multifaceted metric and any singular data point will fall short.

In other words this whole thread is pointless. Entertaining. But pointless.

Don't agree with the entertaining bit.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Yes it’s entirely subjective

I think people’s opinions may be influenced by age

I guess when I look back I’m pretty lucky to have supported a team that for 30 seasons or so played in the top flight. The managers who achieved that often had little talent or resource

That said I’m assuming the poster whose arguing on the other side is actually older than me

I'm 44. My memory goes back to the middle of the Milne reign when I started being taken by my dad. Anything before that and its based on opinions of people who were there & the history books. I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to the stats & things.

 

[Evo1883]

Curious to know his PPG. Anyone know where you can find it?

Hard to work out I could with lots of time and research.

His complete record is

Played 190
Won 85
Drew 45
Lost. 60

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Don't agree with the entertaining bit.

But yet you keep coming back.

 

[Grendel]

Why are you talking about individual players in a thread about managers? It’s apples and oranges.

He’s throwing the illogicality of his argument back at him. I’d still argue Phil Neal achievement of a mid table finish was better

 

[Ring Of Steel]

He’s throwing the illogicality of his argument back at him. I’d still argue Phil Neal achievement of a mid table finish was better

Phil Neal was a bit underrated I thought. But compared to what Robins inherited & what he has done, Neal is way behind.

 

[Grendel]

I'm 44. My memory goes back to the middle of the Milne reign when I started being taken by my dad. Anything before that and its based on opinions of people who were there & the history books. I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to the stats & things.

How can it go back to the middle of his reign? You’d have been 3

 

[shmmeee]

Don't agree with the entertaining bit.

Well you see entertainment is a subjective multivariate issue. What’s entertaining on a small local forum may not be entertaining on a national scale.

 

[shmmeee]

Hard to work out I could with lots of time and research.

His complete record is

Played 190
Won 85
Drew 45
Lost. 60

Is that league only?

If so that’s 300 points over 190 games, so 1.58 ppg

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Phil Neal was a bit underrated I thought. But compared to what Robins inherited & what he has done, Neal is way behind.

And the reason I give it to Robins over Gould- Gould set up one of the most exciting teams I ever saw us have, albeit only for a short time- the 5 up front with Gallacher, Smith, Ndlovu, Rosario & Quinn. But once he had Rosario & Gallacher sold from under him he had no way of rebuilding, he couldn't do it and eventually resigned in a huge strop after getting whacked 5-1 at QPR. Whereas Robins loses someone he just carries on regardless & manages to make us stronger.

If you're talking talent spotting & finding players, Gould romps home above anyone else, ever.

 

[Grendel]

Is that league only?

If so that’s 300 points over 190 games, so 1.58 ppg

Sounds about right

 

[Evo1883]

That’s not what I said

Do you think in a CCFC all time voted 11 McNulty (who won a trophy and got promoted) would get as many votes as Dublin (finished mid table)?

A player who plies his trade in the Premier league is a better player than one which plies his trade in the lower divisions.
A manager is slightly different isn't it?
Chris wilder has a promotion of every division in the foot all pyramid, Russel slade managed Leyton orient to relative success by their standards but couldn't do it in non league... Resources available are the bigger factor along with ofcourse talent... Could pep guardiola pick up Southend today and keep them up? Very doubtful...

 

[Grendel]

And the reason I give it to Robins over Gould- Gould set up one of the most exciting teams I ever saw us have, albeit only for a short time- the 5 up front with Gallacher, Smith, Ndlovu, Rosario & Quinn. But once he had Rosario & Gallacher sold from under him he had no way of rebuilding, he couldn't do it and eventually resigned in a huge strop after getting whacked 5-1 at QPR. Whereas Robins loses someone he just carries on regardless & manages to make us stronger.

If you're talking talent spotting & finding players, Gould romps home above anyone else, ever.

The first three of those were signed by a manager you’d earlier dismissed as a good coach who couldn’t sign forwards

 

[shmmeee]

A player who plies his trade in the Premier league is a better player than one which plies his trade in the lower divisions.
A manager is slightly different isn't it?
Chris wilder has a promotion of every division in the foot all pyramid, Russel slade managed Leyton orient to relative success by their standards but couldn't do it in non league... Resources available are the bigger factor along with ofcourse talent... Could pep guardiola pick up Southend today and keep them up? Very doubtful...

An interesting point here is Viveash’s comments about having to adapt his coaching style to players with lesser ability. There’s some things you just can’t ask L2 players to do that Internationals can.

 

[Evo1883]

Is that league only?

If so that’s 300 points over 190 games, so 1.58 ppg

It won't be too different either way.

 

[shmmeee]

It won't be too different either way.

I mean we are statistically more likely to lose cup games I guess due to the opposition. Plus there’s the Bumfuck Cup with its U23 teams that skew things. But yeah generally.

 

[clint van damme]

And the reason I give it to Robins over Gould- Gould set up one of the most exciting teams I ever saw us have, albeit only for a short time- the 5 up front with Gallacher, Smith, Ndlovu, Rosario & Quinn. But once he had Rosario & Gallacher sold from under him he had no way of rebuilding, he couldn't do it and eventually resigned in a huge strop after getting whacked 5-1 at QPR. Whereas Robins loses someone he just carries on regardless & manages to make us stronger.

If you're talking talent spotting & finding players, Gould romps home above anyone else, ever.

Which is why these arguments are never provable.
Sillet would be top 2 for me, but he benefited massively from Goulds talent spotting.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

How can it go back to the middle of his reign? You’d have been 3

My dad provided the meat for the restaurant in the main stand and had a box- box number 5 low down. I don't have recall of every game but I do recall certain matches & the general feeling around the place. Probably much more towards the end of his reign actually- 79ish.

 

[Grendel]

Which is why these arguments are never provable.
Sillet would be top 2 for me, but he benefited massively from Goulds talent spotting.

I don’t think Sillett would agree with that!

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Which is why these arguments are never provable.
Sillet would be top 2 for me, but he benefited massively from Goulds talent spotting.

For me, excluding Robins for a min its probably Hill, Sillett (you have to, look at what that did for the city, let alone the club, plus he established us as a 'proper' top division team as opposed to relegation favourites), Storer, Milne, Gould (for what he did in '83 when pretty much everyone left & how he mostly brought the '87 players), Strachan.

I guess in one sense, if you exclude the hard facts you can only really judge after they've gone. I'd argue that when we look back at Robins' tenure, the good feeling & unity he brought to this club are going to be greater than the buzz created by all the above aside from Hill & Sillett.

 

[Evo1883]

For example I don't think Phil Neal is a better manager than Mark Robins just because he managed us in the prem..
I also think Strachan underachieved in 97/98 when our away form cost us European football... Who is saying Robins couldn't have done more with that team if you could roll back the clock and he was who he is now? .. That's the thing with management...level doesn't always determine how good you are, resource based performance is a far better measure

Chris wilder Is an outstanding manager when you consider this

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I don’t think Sillett would agree with that!

You atre right, they famously did not get on.

I have no idea if this is true or not, but I heard lots of people say at the time that when Gould was sacked by us first time round he lost it completely and went nuts going round the ground in a terrible state, and partially blamed Sillett for saying things to undermine him, and would I be right in saying that it was Gould that fired Sillett from us?

 

[Grendel]

You atre right, they famously did not get on.

I have no idea if this is true or not, but I heard lots of people say at the time that when Gould was sacked by us first time round he lost it completely and went nuts going round the ground in a terrible state, and partially blamed Sillett for saying things to undermine him, and would I be right in saying that it was Gould that fired Sillett from us?

Yes they couldn’t stand each other. Gould fired him and Don Mackay bought him back

 

[Ring Of Steel]

The first three of those were signed by a manager you’d earlier dismissed as a good coach who couldn’t sign forwards

One of them actually, Ndlovu was spotted and recommended to Sillett who took one look and signed him (it woudn't have been hard to see he had what it takes), and Smith came through the youth team. And I see your Kevin Gallacher and raise you Kevin Drinkell, Gary Bannister & Keith Thompson.

 

[Grendel]

One of them actually, Ndlovu was spotted and recommended to Sillett who took one look and signed him (it woudn't have been hard to see he had what it takes), and Smith came through the youth team. And I see your Kevin Gallacher and raise you Kevin Drinkell, Gary Bannister & Keith Thompson.

Sillett signed him. He developed Smith

Bannister was ok.

Frankly if your getting into that game then I’ll raise you with

Dave Bamber
Graham Withey
Tommy Langley
Peter Barnes
John Gayle

Lastly I’m sure Gould splashed £350k on Leigh Jenkinson didn’t he?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Sillett signed him. He developed Smith

Bannister was ok.

Frankly if your getting into that game then I’ll raise you with

Dave Bamber
Graham Withey
Tommy Langley
Peter Barnes
John Gayle

Lastly I’m sure Gould splashed £350k on Leigh Jenkinson didn’t he?

Gould can take anyone you want to throw at him and respond with umpteen brilliant discoveries and signings.

 

[Grendel]

Gould can take anyone you want to throw at him and respond with umpteen brilliant discoveries and signings.

No he can’t most of his signings were shite

 

[usskyblue]

117.896% of stats are wrong