CJparker
New Member
Just as well that there is no chance that Coventry City will be leaving the Ricoh then. Forget the new ground threats, we are the Ricoh, no question, and that is how it will stay, whoever is in charge.
Mark Labovitch, Really? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mr B
- Start date
Just as well that there is no chance that Coventry City will be leaving the Ricoh then. Forget the new ground threats, we are the Ricoh, no question, and that is how it will stay, whoever is in charge.
Joy Division
Well-Known Member
What Rugby club would use the Ricoh on a regular basis?
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
Th e only way CCFC will not be playing at the Ricoh is if SISU liquidate them, there is no other ground option despite the threat.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
Well Coventry could be one
Joy Division
Well-Known Member
They already have a ground, why would they move to the Ricoh and pay that kind of rent with the tiny crowds that they currently get?
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
For a start Coventry Rugby club have money issues, so they could sell the Butts, thats if they own it and rent for the Ricoh would be negotiable. A lot of well heeled local business types support Cov. now Also don't underestimate the gate a successful Cov rugby team could get, wouldn't be that far off what we currently get. I have been locked out of Coundon Road in the past. But if they onl;y got 3/4000 thats 3/4000 more than is there every other Saturday now.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I personally dont think there is any doubt that losing the football club would be bad for the stadium, but if they did put a roof on it and I know that would cost millions the Ricoh could be one of the most attractive venues for concerts in the country, especially if the train station happens. It would be able to stage concerts all year round, in a very central location, with about 3 times the capacity of the LG Arena (nec), stick a couple of nice restaurants and some bars around and it could be fantastic. There isn't anywhere with stadium capacitys in the country that can hold events in all weathers is there?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree, but I think the idea isn't really feasible at present due to the prohibitive cost. The problem is people's arguments hang on something that, and I'm sure you'll agree, is very unlikely to happen.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
Don't you think this hasn't been discussed in depth and is why this issue is in court tomorrow morning. As for the loss of £1.3 million rent that has already been offered to be reduced by 60%
mattylad
Member
They average between 800 and 1500 fans now
:facepalm:
Joy Division
Well-Known Member
I'm confused as to why you think ACL would be so accommodating to Coventry Rugby and not CCFC? The Rugby team don't have a pot to piss in currently and wouldn't be able to pay anywhere near the rent that has been offered to us without losing money each week (like ourselves). They are better off staying at BPA.
:facepalm:So Coventry Rugby Club playing in the 3rd tier of English Rugby could afford to pay an annual rent of £400,000 then.I very much doubt if they take £400,000 in gate money in a whole season.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
But what if Coventry Rugby club amalgameted with another, there are i believe two current top flight clubs looking for new homes Saracens is one the other could be Wasps, that would elevate Cov into the top flight and if they are getting 1500 gates now in the lower reaches of the rugby pyramid what could they get in the premiership. As i said i believe things along these lines have been discussed and i think it highly possible football and rugger will happen at the Ricoh.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Ah, now you're talking about Franchise teams. The very thing that a lot of people on here have girly fits over. Nice sentiment with the rugby club think but there are too many ifs and buts on your argument. It would never happen unless ACL gave them the place rent free. Even then they would struggle to get over 3 or 4K I would think.
Why would Saracens or Wasps move a hundres miles north,I'm sure there fans would love that,and what would happen to Coventry Rugby Club?They presumbably would just fold,wiping out all of their history,I'm sure their fans would love that idea as well.A club that produced Ducham,Preece and countless England Rugby internationals just summarily closed down.Football fans nationwide rightly were appalled when MK swallowed up Wimbledon,yet you seem happy to suggest it for poor Saracens.
Joy Division
Well-Known Member
Saracens who have just built a new stadium in north London? and Wasps, London Wasps playing at the Ricoh arena Coventy?
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Of course, but it is particularly relevant to this thread and with the 60% offered it will struggle ... although it has to be the right thing to do which is why I support it. Catch22 howver and the club and ground must be united again wherever that may be.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Any chance to use the word epidermis. Which, admittedly, I hadn't done. But I have now
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
That must be a first for SBT. OK, I'll come and do some work no.
Any chance to use the word epidermis. Which, admittedly, I hadn't done. But I have now
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Here we go again ACL cant survive without CCFC.................. it will be a white elephant ....... it can survive without CCFC ...... it goes round and round. There are things that seem to get forgotten in assessing the possibility of survival
I know everyone likes to focus on taking the rent out of the last set of figures and saying look there you go a loss.
It isn't that simple
-Firstly the rental loss that ACL are exposed to is £400k not £1.3m. This has to be the case otherwise why make that as an offer to ccfc. Some what easier make up £400k but not at all easy
- many seem to think the structure is the same. It isnt it wont be. Thats the whole point of putting the conference, event exhibition matchday income in to IEC. That leaves a basic holding company as ACL, which receives rent and stadium sponsorship money. As such it can reduce its costs (wages the biggest one). IEC in the meantime already had its own structure and it wont be a simple case of taking costs from ACL and putting it all in IEC, duplications will be removed. So looking at ACL alone it needs to get in enough money to service the loan first off plus fixed costs (rates, Insurance etc) plus a limited amount of administration and above that the surplus will get reinvested. IEC I would guess is much more flexible in its cost structures, doesnt have a great deal of fixed overhead and relies heavily on casual staff supplied via Compass so can react to variations of income
- the loan sourced through a central government body by CCC and "resold" to ACL at a small profit. It is not a straight swap for the Yorkshire bank one because it is at a lower rate of interest over a much greater period. The effect of that new loan is to reduce cost (interest) set against profit but also to reduce the monthly cash flow requirement
- second largest expense in the accounts is salaries - already dealt with that above but it wouldnt surprise me if savings were in the magnitude of £1m, ACL simply do not need the staff at any level other than administration of the accounts. The stakeholder direstors do not get paid, the requirement for others is not as great because all they need to do is take a strategic view and bring in rents.
- Yes the turnover will be hit if CCFC leave the Ricoh, loss of rent, loss of matchday income, possible loss of sponsorship money or renewal/ new at much lower values. There would be new events on a more irregular basis, more one offs (that is not impossible). In time they may find new tenants, it isnt likely this very moment but doesnt mean they cant in the future
The point I am making is that we are looking at structures in place when this dispute started.............. it simply is not the same now, so dont expect the same costs when considering ACL will fail because they lost income. Of course it could all fail, but it may also have a fighting chance not to, because of what has already been done.
Best solution for the club and ACL is CCFC playing at the Ricoh ............. I cant see it under the clubs present owners though, and the sooner they are replaced the better...... just got to grit my teeth until then.
I know everyone likes to focus on taking the rent out of the last set of figures and saying look there you go a loss.
It isn't that simple
-Firstly the rental loss that ACL are exposed to is £400k not £1.3m. This has to be the case otherwise why make that as an offer to ccfc. Some what easier make up £400k but not at all easy
- many seem to think the structure is the same. It isnt it wont be. Thats the whole point of putting the conference, event exhibition matchday income in to IEC. That leaves a basic holding company as ACL, which receives rent and stadium sponsorship money. As such it can reduce its costs (wages the biggest one). IEC in the meantime already had its own structure and it wont be a simple case of taking costs from ACL and putting it all in IEC, duplications will be removed. So looking at ACL alone it needs to get in enough money to service the loan first off plus fixed costs (rates, Insurance etc) plus a limited amount of administration and above that the surplus will get reinvested. IEC I would guess is much more flexible in its cost structures, doesnt have a great deal of fixed overhead and relies heavily on casual staff supplied via Compass so can react to variations of income
- the loan sourced through a central government body by CCC and "resold" to ACL at a small profit. It is not a straight swap for the Yorkshire bank one because it is at a lower rate of interest over a much greater period. The effect of that new loan is to reduce cost (interest) set against profit but also to reduce the monthly cash flow requirement
- second largest expense in the accounts is salaries - already dealt with that above but it wouldnt surprise me if savings were in the magnitude of £1m, ACL simply do not need the staff at any level other than administration of the accounts. The stakeholder direstors do not get paid, the requirement for others is not as great because all they need to do is take a strategic view and bring in rents.
- Yes the turnover will be hit if CCFC leave the Ricoh, loss of rent, loss of matchday income, possible loss of sponsorship money or renewal/ new at much lower values. There would be new events on a more irregular basis, more one offs (that is not impossible). In time they may find new tenants, it isnt likely this very moment but doesnt mean they cant in the future
The point I am making is that we are looking at structures in place when this dispute started.............. it simply is not the same now, so dont expect the same costs when considering ACL will fail because they lost income. Of course it could all fail, but it may also have a fighting chance not to, because of what has already been done.
Best solution for the club and ACL is CCFC playing at the Ricoh ............. I cant see it under the clubs present owners though, and the sooner they are replaced the better...... just got to grit my teeth until then.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I think white elephant refers more to the fact that it isn't used for any purpose. The Millenium Dome was a white elephant in as much as it wasn't used primarily for its originally intended purpose. It doesn't really have anything to do with money.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
That must be a first for SBT. OK, I'll come and do some work no.
It seems to have fixed itself! Although I did do a lot of turning off and on...
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The thing is we'll never really know how well ACL do without CCFC if it actually happens! Think the Olympics is a bit of a red herring, it won't happen again and if I remember correctly we only got the games as Villa Park wasn't ready in time.
The notion that, even with a roof, the use of the stadium will increase massively doesn't seem right to me. The Millenium Stadium has a roof and is equiped with a system to portion off sections to allow a smaller area to be used but is hardly overrun with bookings. They currently have 2 gigs scheduled, couple of rugby match and a speedway GP. Band touring schedules are based around playing outdoor shows in the summer, there aren't all going to suddenly change their schedules because the Ricoh is available so where are all these extra events going to come from unless you convert it for another use which would mean you no longer are able to have those big events.
You also have to consider the cost of maintaining the stadium when it is out of use, it's not just a case of switching off the lights, there will be plenty of bills coming in when it's out of use. That's before you even think about the impact on naming rights or if the casino or compass have any clauses or will look to change terms if CCFC leave.
The notion that, even with a roof, the use of the stadium will increase massively doesn't seem right to me. The Millenium Stadium has a roof and is equiped with a system to portion off sections to allow a smaller area to be used but is hardly overrun with bookings. They currently have 2 gigs scheduled, couple of rugby match and a speedway GP. Band touring schedules are based around playing outdoor shows in the summer, there aren't all going to suddenly change their schedules because the Ricoh is available so where are all these extra events going to come from unless you convert it for another use which would mean you no longer are able to have those big events.
You also have to consider the cost of maintaining the stadium when it is out of use, it's not just a case of switching off the lights, there will be plenty of bills coming in when it's out of use. That's before you even think about the impact on naming rights or if the casino or compass have any clauses or will look to change terms if CCFC leave.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I agree with the general sentiment that it will be a 'white elephant' as the RICOH is primarily there because of the football, it's why it was built, and realistically, if CCFC left the RICOH, there's no one out there really who'd rent the stadium, based on location, let alone the price. No rugby club in the prem would use it, Leicester have Welford Road, as well as the King Power stadium then Northampton have Fanklin Gardens. Stadium:MK appears to have taken over the RICOH for neutral rugby games, as I go to any rugby game at the RICOH, there hasn't been a single rugby match for at least 3 yrs, maybe even 4 years ago. There's no football team either who would rent the stadium either. In this sense, it would be a waste.
If CCFC were to leave, ACL, at a minimum, would struggle big time, there are events such as concerts, but there's little going on there accept the football, and if you look at the finances, bar this year, they made 500k (give or take), take 1.28m and the revenues which could top 250k easily (bearing in mind we had 24k average gate when it first opened) some years, they're in the red, so, based on that, you'd have to say they'd have to completely change their business model and it would put them close to the brink to the point where the Higgs may sell their share (Only opinions, based on facts).
If CCFC were to leave, ACL, at a minimum, would struggle big time, there are events such as concerts, but there's little going on there accept the football, and if you look at the finances, bar this year, they made 500k (give or take), take 1.28m and the revenues which could top 250k easily (bearing in mind we had 24k average gate when it first opened) some years, they're in the red, so, based on that, you'd have to say they'd have to completely change their business model and it would put them close to the brink to the point where the Higgs may sell their share (Only opinions, based on facts).
Justin Bieber just played 4 times at the O2, would it not be preferable for him to have had to do just 1 show for the same ammount in ticket sales? Might have managed to be on time for that too.
You'd have to heat it, you wouldnt have it be an outdoor venue, you'd use it as an indoor venue with massive capacity in the winter. You wouldn't have to have 4 dates at the nec, you could do one at the Ricoh which would be very preferable to the bands. Personally though I'd still prefer to go to the nec, I'm not a fan of stadium shows, sure it looks awesome with so many people, but you can end up miles from the stage. The venue would be competing against the NEC, the O2, The men etc not wembley stadium and old trafford. That said they would also be competing against their own indoor concert venue (which personally I hate, but thats because the disabled facilities are completely unacceptable, the only concert I've ever not enjoyed was florence and the machine at the richo exhibition hall.
While its an interesting discussion though, I'm sure it wont happen and I'm sure its not what ACL want and its certainly not whats best for CCFC. Nore do any of us really have an idea about the logistics and price of putting a roof on. While there are plenty of fans who mourn for highfield road, none of us really want to see us leave the Ricoh im sure.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
The biggest white elephant you will ever see. Particularly as all other income streams like casino, hotel etc depend on it. I suggest we knock it down and build a gas works.
