Loan Watch (9 Viewers)

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Mar 22, 2022

shmmeee said:
His career average in all games is a goal every 195 minutes. That’s excellent. Pulling out appearances for a player who has been playing two minute spells is disingenuous.

Be as grumpy as you like about him, but his record up to this season has been excellent, hence why we and several other clubs chased him.

I'm not being grumpy, I'm analysing the facts and they don't correlate with what some people have been saying about him. Now he's gone off on loan and not doing well, some of those people want to double down and I don't get it.

He had a fantastic season with Mansfield, which was in League 2. Since then he did pretty well in League 1 with Lincoln, but his time with us has been underwhelming to say the least.

If you want to account for small cameos then you have to account for which leagues he has scored in too. His record at Championship level is nothing to shout about really.

fernandopartridge · Mar 22, 2022

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I'm not being grumpy, I'm analysing the facts and they don't correlate with what some people have been saying about him. Now he's gone off on loan and not doing well, some of those people want to double down and I don't get it.

He had a fantastic season with Mansfield, which was in League 2. Since then he did pretty well in League 1 with Lincoln, but his time with us has been underwhelming to say the least.

If you want to account for small cameos then you have to account for which leagues he has scored in too. His record at Championship level is nothing to shout about really.

His strike rate per minute on the pitch in the Championship for CCFC is:

20/21 1 goal every 258 minutes
21/22 1 goal every 246 minutes

That's firmly in the 1 in 3 bracket which is pretty good

Going back to his days at Forest:

19/20 1 goal every 132 minutes
17/18 1 goal every 233 minutes

"Underwhelming to say the least" is an odd statement to make about last season's top scorer, but it is you.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Mar 22, 2022

fernandopartridge said:
His strike rate per minute on the pitch in the Championship for CCFC is:

20/21 1 goal every 258 minutes
21/22 1 goal every 246 minutes

That's firmly in the 1 in 3 bracket which is pretty good

Going back to his days at Forest:

19/20 1 goal every 132 minutes
17/18 1 goal every 233 minutes

"Underwhelming to say the least" is an odd statement to make about last season's top scorer, but it is you.

His stats are 14 goals in 95 appearances at Championship level. So first, you are wrong. Secondly, if he wasn´t underwhelming he wouldn´t have been sent on loan either would he? Robins at no point if I recall, ever expressed sadness at him going.

Not sure why you have to get all personal about it either. A bit odd.

Frostie · Mar 22, 2022

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
His stats are 14 goals in 95 appearances at Championship level. So first, you are wrong. Secondly, if he wasn´t underwhelming he wouldn´t have been sent on loan either would he? Robins at no point if I recall, ever expressed sadness at him going.

Not sure why you have to get all personal about it either. A bit odd.

Fernando's stats are correct, yours are (intentionally) misleading as surely you know that a large portion of his Championship appearances are very, very brief - often single digit minutes.

And to your point re: Robins:

I said: “I don’t really want to let you go, want to keep you in, but I can see that you need to go and sort of bring yourself up a little bit and go and enjoy playing, and then we’ll see how things go”.’

KenilworthSkyBlue · Mar 22, 2022

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
His stats are 14 goals in 95 appearances at Championship level. So first, you are wrong. Secondly, if he wasn´t underwhelming he wouldn´t have been sent on loan either would he? Robins at no point if I recall, ever expressed sadness at him going.

Not sure why you have to get all personal about it either. A bit odd.

You're taking his stats massively out of context in order to prove your arguement. Out of those 95 apps or whatever it is hasn't he appeared off the bench over 50 times?

Minutes per goal is quite clearly the best metric to measure his ability at this level.

Il Pirata · Mar 22, 2022

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I really don´t think he was ever that good. All opinions of course.

I agree, never really a fan.

higgs · Mar 22, 2022

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
His stats are 14 goals in 95 appearances at Championship level. So first, you are wrong. Secondly, if he wasn´t underwhelming he wouldn´t have been sent on loan either would he? Robins at no point if I recall, ever expressed sadness at him going.

Not sure why you have to get all personal about it either. A bit odd.

Before his Portsmouth spell he looked like a very good league one goal scorer he seems to have gone off the boil lately anyone know has he any issues going on outside of football

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CDK · Mar 22, 2022

higgs said:
Before his Portsmouth spell he looked like a very good league one goal scorer he seems to have gone off the boil lately anyone know has he any issues going on outside of football

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What issues?

Evo1883 · Mar 22, 2022

CDK said:
What issues?

Family, relationship , mental etc

higgs · Mar 22, 2022

CDK said:
What issues?

Don't know has he had a kid or anything lately lack of sleep affecting his performance or something he has the ability to be a 25 goal a season man in league 1

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Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Mar 22, 2022

Frostie said:
Fernando's stats are correct, yours are (intentionally) misleading as surely you know that a large portion of his Championship appearances are very, very brief - often single digit minutes.

And to your point re: Robins:

I said: “I don’t really want to let you go, want to keep you in, but I can see that you need to go and sort of bring yourself up a little bit and go and enjoy playing, and then we’ll see how things go”.’

I just posted what I had seen on TransferMarkt, which is appearances and goals. That is not misleading or deliberate. I am aware some of his appearances have been short, but if you want to start taking them out for the statistics to suit your opinion than that is as bad as Grendel going on about Biamou and cup goals. It only takes a split second to score a goal anyway.

If you want to regard yourself as some kind of respectable statto on this board then you are going to have to be less biased.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Mar 22, 2022

KenilworthSkyBlue said:
You're taking his stats massively out of context in order to prove your arguement. Out of those 95 apps or whatever it is hasn't he appeared off the bench over 50 times?

Minutes per goal is quite clearly the best metric to measure his ability at this level.

How many goals has he scored off the bench, shall we take them out as well to make it fair?

He obviously wasn´t up to the standard the Robins wanted, and sadly he hasn´t been doing it back on loan in League 1 either. I hope for his and the clubs sake that it changes, but at the moment this is the unfortunate reality.

higgs · Mar 22, 2022

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
How many goals has he scored off the bench, shall we take them out as well to make it fair?

He obviously wasn´t up to the standard the Robins wanted, and sadly he hasn´t been doing it back on loan in League 1 either. I hope for his and the clubs sake that it changes, but at the moment this is the unfortunate reality.

He's going to be 26 this year time for his career to take off now but looks like its going the other way. He needs a move in the summer and to start banging in the goals again in league 1 Would be a good signing for the posh next season

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SBT · Mar 22, 2022

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I just posted what I had seen on TransferMarkt, which is appearances and goals. That is not misleading or deliberate. I am aware some of his appearances have been short, but if you want to start taking them out for the statistics to suit your opinion than that is as bad as Grendel going on about Biamou and cup goals. It only takes a split second to score a goal anyway.

If you want to regard yourself as some kind of respectable statto on this board then you are going to have to be less biased.

Which stat do you think is a more accurate reflection of the amount of time Tyler Walker has spent playing - minutes played, or appearances made?

Once you figure out your answer, let us know and we’ll work out the most accurate, least biased goal stats together

Johhny Blue · Mar 22, 2022

higgs said:
He's going to be 26 this year time for his career to take off now but looks like its going the other way. He needs a move in the summer and to start banging in the goals again in league 1 Would be a good signing for the posh next season

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Or a good league one signing for Sunderland

fernandopartridge · Mar 22, 2022

I'm not even sure Walker's time here is over, he wasn't getting a game but both Godden and Gyok were in double figures.

We know that the wage bill had to reduce to make room for Bidwell. Walker just fitted the bill in these circumstances:

1. He was a relatively high earner
2. Somebody was willing to pay at least a portion of his wages
3. He wanted regular game time that Robins could not guarantee

Subsequently Godden has been injured and Waghorn has looked miles away. I think there is still a chance for Walker when he returns albeit it is going well for him at Pompey.

SBT · Mar 22, 2022

If there’s a chance to get Waghorn off the wage bill instead of Walker then it would be malpractice not to pursue it.

higgs · Mar 22, 2022

SBT said:
If there’s a chance to get Waghorn off the wage bill instead of Walker then it would be malpractice not to pursue it.

Don't know if walker would be happy to sit on the bench again next season he needs to start playing games regularly now at his age

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KenilworthSkyBlue · Mar 22, 2022

SBT said:
If there’s a chance to get Waghorn off the wage bill instead of Walker then it would be malpractice not to pursue it.

I suspect it will be nigh on impossible to get Waghorn off the wage bill without negotiating some kind of settlement.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Mar 23, 2022

SBT said:
Which stat do you think is a more accurate reflection of the amount of time Tyler Walker has spent playing - minutes played, or appearances made?

Once you figure out your answer, let us know and we’ll work out the most accurate, least biased goal stats together

In regards to the stats; I just posted what I had seen on TransferMarkt and people didn't like it. That's their problem. It doesn't really matter what I think either, the people in question have their opinion and will probably never change their minds.

The fact is, he went out on loan and part of that reason is that he clearly hasn't been good enough for us so far. Goals per minute, appearances, whatever- this is the main sticking point.

Whether he comes back next season and fights or a place, or if we sell him remains to be seen.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 23, 2022

KenilworthSkyBlue said:
Minutes per goal is quite clearly the best metric to measure his ability at this level.

Shush! You'll wake up Grendel.

SBT · Mar 23, 2022

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
In regards to the stats; I just posted what I had seen on TransferMarkt and people didn't like it. That's their problem. It doesn't really matter what I think either, the people in question have their opinion and will probably never change their minds.

The fact is, he went out on loan and part of that reason is that he clearly hasn't been good enough for us so far. Goals per minute, appearances, whatever- this is the main sticking point.

Whether he comes back next season and fights or a place, or if we sell him remains to be seen.

Ignoring anyone’s opinion on a particular player, which do you think is a more accurate reflection of how often a player scores goals - minutes per goal, or appearances per goal? I assume you’d want to use the more accurate statistic as part of your thinking when deciding whether to buy or sell a player?

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Mar 23, 2022

SBT said:
Ignoring anyone’s opinion on a particular player, which do you think is a more accurate reflection of how often a player scores goals - minutes per goal, or appearances per goal? I assume you’d want to use the more accurate statistic as part of your thinking when deciding whether to buy or sell a player?

Phrase the stats however you want, I honestly couldn't care less. The fact remains that he clearly hasn't been good enough. Robins and Cowley have a similar take. One deemed him expendable enough to send on loan, the other has 'yet to see the best of him'.

In the whole argument of appearances verus minutes, when deciding to buy or sell a player, you wouldn't be so ignorant to discount the reason why he was playing such short cameos in the first place, would you? Why has he got high appearance numbers and short minutes? Surely you would look at all the different layers of stats and paint a complete picture.

You can answer that in all manner of ways however, but it isn't a simple black and white argument as to cut and paste selective minutes and goals to frame an argument to make one feel better. If we were signing a player I think we would want to know, rather than shoving fingers in ears because the answer might not be what we want it to be.

SBT · Mar 23, 2022

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Phrase the stats however you want, I honestly couldn't care less. The fact remains that he clearly hasn't been good enough. Robins and Cowley have a similar take. One deemed him expendable enough to send on loan, the other has 'yet to see the best of him'.

In the whole argument of appearances verus minutes, when deciding to buy or sell a player, you wouldn't be so ignorant to discount the reason why he was playing such short cameos in the first place, would you? Why has he got high appearance numbers and short minutes? Surely you would look at all the different layers of stats and paint a complete picture.

You can answer that in all manner of ways however, but it isn't a simple black and white argument as to cut and paste selective minutes and goals to frame an argument to make one feel better. If we were signing a player I think we would want to know, rather than shoving fingers in ears because the answer might not be what we want it to be.

There’s nothing “selective” about it - no-one favouring ‘goals per minute’ is trying to claim his playing time and goals record is anything different from what it actually is. On the other hand, using appearances per goal means a player’s scoring record over 900 minutes can be identical to one who’s played 9. Is that the kind of ‘framing’ you’re happiest with?

I agree that Walker’s failure to break the first team at various points in his career is worth looking at, but your conclusions are classic circular logic at work - ‘He’s on the bench because he’s crap/He’s crap because he’s on the bench’ just doesn’t really make sense.

better days · Mar 23, 2022

Walker was glad to go to Pompey as he knew he'd play
It's a shame it hasn't worked out so far
Hopefully it will do in the coming games but the signs aren't great

Sky Blue Harry H · Mar 23, 2022

Need to get to specsavers. just read the thread title as 'Lost watch' !!!

Grendel · Mar 23, 2022

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Phrase the stats however you want, I honestly couldn't care less. The fact remains that he clearly hasn't been good enough. Robins and Cowley have a similar take. One deemed him expendable enough to send on loan, the other has 'yet to see the best of him'.

In the whole argument of appearances verus minutes, when deciding to buy or sell a player, you wouldn't be so ignorant to discount the reason why he was playing such short cameos in the first place, would you? Why has he got high appearance numbers and short minutes? Surely you would look at all the different layers of stats and paint a complete picture.

You can answer that in all manner of ways however, but it isn't a simple black and white argument as to cut and paste selective minutes and goals to frame an argument to make one feel better. If we were signing a player I think we would want to know, rather than shoving fingers in ears because the answer might not be what we want it to be.

he had short cameos at Nottingham forest as he was when he started there a teenager

PVA · Mar 23, 2022

Really expected Walker to bag a few goals for Pompey. Shame it's not worked out for him there.

I'd be surprised if he's here next year unless he's happy to be 3rd/4th choice which I assume he isn't (hence why he left Forest).

Depends what happens with Gyokeres and Waghorn I suppose.

Grendel · Mar 23, 2022

PVA said:
Really expected Walker to bag a few goals for Pompey. Shame it's not worked out for him there.

I'd be surprised if he's here next year unless he's happy to be 3rd/4th choice which I assume he isn't (hence why he left Forest).

Depends what happens with Gyokeres and Waghorn I suppose.

It more depends if someone matches his wages. Robins was perusing him for a while and he’s on a big wage which league 1 clubs definitely would not agree to

CDK · Mar 23, 2022

SBT said:
If there’s a chance to get Waghorn off the wage bill instead of Walker then it would be malpractice not to pursue it.

Waggy on 10 k a week should try to move him on,a ridiculous amount for someone that's not up to standard along with walker.
Think godden,gyo,and tavares next year will be enough with the other 2 if we can get them out then it frees up to add real quality in midfield and other positions .

SBT · Mar 23, 2022

CDK said:
Waggy on 10 k a week should try to move him on,a ridiculous amount for someone that's not up to standard along with walker.
Think godden,gyo,and tavares next year will be enough with the other 2 if we can get them out then it frees up to add real quality in midfield and other positions .

Walker and Waghorn combined have started 15 games this season, I’d be amazed if Tavares is good enough to handle that kind of workload. He’d be playing loads if we only had three strikers.

stay_up_skyblues · Mar 23, 2022

CDK said:
Waggy on 10 k a week should try to move him on,a ridiculous amount for someone that's not up to standard along with walker.
Think godden,gyo,and tavares next year will be enough with the other 2 if we can get them out then it frees up to add real quality in midfield and other positions .

We need four strikers on the books if we’re going to be playing two up top regularly and id wager that a loan is the next logical step for Fabio.

We’re surely due a player sale in the summer and imo Gyo is the most valuable/saleable by some distance so wouldn’t be surprised if the four ends up Godden, Walker, Waghorn and one new signing.

CDK · Mar 23, 2022

stay_up_skyblues said:
We need four strikers on the books if we’re going to be playing two up top regularly and id wager that a loan is the next logical step for Fabio.

We’re surely due a player sale in the summer and imo Gyo is the most valuable/saleable by some distance so wouldn’t be surprised if the four ends up Godden, Walker, Waghorn and one new signing.

Walker has better end product than waghorn who has no end product,that's a fact not opinion check it on the stats.

Frostie · Mar 23, 2022

CDK said:
Walker has better end product than waghorn who has no end product,that's a fact not opinion check it on the stats.

In fairness, Waghorn's game isn't really about him being massively prolific, he has a lot more about him than just an out & out goalscorer. He was brought in to assist with the pressing & historically creates pretty well for others too.
There were some positive early signs here but since his injury disruptions I think it's fair to say he's struggled.

Greggs · Mar 24, 2022

Sky Blue Harry H said:
Need to get to specsavers. just read the thread title as 'Lost watch' !!!

Been spending too much time on 'other' websites haven't you?

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