Loan signings (1 Viewer)

[curly_tom]

I don't get why we are taking in so many loans. Having 2 of the 4 centre halves as youg inexperienced loanees seems like the limit for me. He's now brought in 2 more young inexperienced wing backs/wingers. They seem to be talking about bringing in more. We have had success in the past few seasons with consistency, players who establish themseves and become fan favourites. You don't get that with loanees. 1 or 2 in a squad is enough I think.

 

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[Otis]

I don't get why we are taking in so many loans. Having 2 of the 4 centre halves as youg inexperienced loanees seems like the limit for me. He's now brought in 2 more young inexperienced wing backs/wingers. They seem to be talking about bringing in more. We have had success in the past few seasons with consistency, players who establish themseves and become fan favourites. You don't get that with loanees. 1 or 2 in a squad is enough I think.

It's because Robins is struggling to get players he wants and obviously loans are much cheaper.

I think his hands are tied to be honest.

 

[JoshCCFC1987]

it’s obviously not by choice we had no money in the summer and don’t want to pay stupid prices now

 

[sotvtoday]

It's about having loan players who bring something to the team I think. For me Doyle has looked good this season but is suffering recently by not having McFadzean next to him. The Arsenal lad yesterday looked not to have much in the way of pace but it's early days. We really need an experienced CB at the minute but as my mate said yesterday a PL centre back on the fringes going out on loan would cost a big weekly wage.

 

[stupot07]

It feels like the bad old days in league one. 1 permanent first team signing all season and sold one of our best players, then reliant on a load of kids on loan.

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I thinks it's needs must. Imagine this squad if it didn't have the four loanees available.

Of course we'd prefer long term signings but if the right players aren't available right now why bring people in on longer contracts?

It's going to leave us with a monumental rebuild job in the summer and we're probably going to lose at least one of the star players along with those out of contract.

Will be an interesting, but probably quite fraught and frustrating, off season.

 

[Winny the Bish]

Brand new recruitment chief and no head scout must mean not wanting to risk multi-year investments in what is already the more difficult window to make permanent signings.

 

[Dickie]

Forest got promoted with loans last season. But good quality loans.

 

[stupot07]

Forest got promoted with loans last season. But good quality loans.

They signed a lot of players on a permanent too.



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[Tea & Busquets]

I wouldn't worry. We will have a big summer clear out and therefore big summer shopping. If not then I would really start worrying. At the moment like mentioned before we've just swapped owners as well as our recruitment team so I wouldn't be all too surprised that they don't want to splash the cash on long term investments they've had no time scouting, just like how you or I wouldn't throw 7k quid on a used car we've not even had a look at.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I wouldn't worry. We will have a big summer clear out and therefore big summer shopping. If not then I would really start worrying. At the moment like mentioned before we've just swapped owners as well as our recruitment team so I wouldn't be all too surprised that they don't want to splash the cash on long term investments they've had no time scouting, just like how you or I wouldn't throw 7k quid on a used car we've not even had a look at.

Which is fine, but then expect a very bumpy ride through to the end.

 

[fatso]

It's due to the underinvestment under sisu towards the end of their tenure, and the lack of development of our own youth set up.
When you couple that with some very questionable signings (Dacosta, Hilsner, kane, Cashman, Waghorn, Walker, Reid etc)
and the fact that our budget was amongst the very lowest in the championship, then you realise that MR has little option but to use loans.

 

[skyblu3sk]

I don't see what is difficult to understand... Sisu fucked us in the summer when they ran out of money (loads of reasons but still have to take the blame as the owner) January is a shit month to try and make permanent signings on top of that injuries have hit hard. Answer = get what we can through the door and focus again in summer.

 

[CDK]

As long as we don't drift into the relagation picture stay round 15th and see what happens in the summer under Doug king.
(The proof of the pudding Doug)

 

[Bertola]

I'm really concerned about the rebuild needed in the summer. A new and untested recruitment department, needing to rebuild a brand new squad. Could be horrendous

 

[shmmeee]

It's due to the underinvestment under sisu towards the end of their tenure, and the lack of development of our own youth set up.
When you couple that with some very questionable signings (Dacosta, Hilsner, kane, Cashman, Waghorn, Walker, Reid etc)
and the fact that our budget was amongst the very lowest in the championship, then you realise that MR has little option but to use loans.

My concern is that we won’t significantly raise the wage budget which is the real problem here. It’s very sensible to say we want it to match revenue but the fact is championship wages significantly outstrip championship revenue.

 

[Bertola]

How do we increase budget without increasing revenue? We're one of the cheapest season tickets in the league... so you'd imagine they will go up... but if we limp through till the end of this season, then fans excitement is going to wane and season ticket sales will likely drop. We really need to pull a rabbit out of the hat this week

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

I think it makes better financial sense than overpay for the wrong player. You don't get many players like Bidwell in this window, this may be a season now where we consolidate and Robins and Austin get there ducks in a row and get the players they actually want as soon as the next window opens. What we dont need is more dead wood to have to get rid of again, the combined wages of players that dont figure in the first team must be a massive financial drag on what Robins can do.

 

[TomRad85]

My concern is that we won’t significantly raise the wage budget which is the real problem here. It’s very sensible to say we want it to match revenue but the fact is championship wages significantly outstrip championship revenue.

Doug has to do something this window to get us through the season without us fans shitting our pants as we slide towards the lower end. He should however be judged in the summer, there's a lot of dead wood out of contract, thank fuck, so lets hope for a nice little rebuild.

 

[shmmeee]

Doug has to do something this window to get us through the season without us fans shitting our pants as we slide towards the lower end. He should however be judged in the summer, there's a lot of dead wood out of contract, thank fuck, so let’s hope for a nice little rebuild.

I’m happy to give him next season before we judge. I don’t think we’ll go down, push comes to shove Robins has shown he can grind out points with crap at this level. But the summer is massive. So if there’s money to spend I’d be front loading the recruitment department and making sure we can get signings in ASAP then.

If we hit July with no signings again I’d be very worried. Ride this season out, get a deal for Vik done to go in the summer, decide who is going, and start signings pre contracts so we have a new squad in for preseason. Two or three months should be long enough for a team of scouts to produce some options.

 

[Torquay Sky Blue]

Forest got promoted with loans last season. But good quality loans.

Yes they absolutely did. Which blows my stance out of the water.
Loans are OK but I don't like them coming straight into the championship with no experience. I'd prefer the Maatsen route, league one then champ. The Arsenal kids done that and I thought although he lacks a bit of pace did OK and should improve

 

[TomRad85]

I’m happy to give him next season before we judge. I don’t think we’ll go down, push comes to shove Robins has shown he can grind out points with crap at this level. But the summer is massive. So if there’s money to spend I’d be front loading the recruitment department and making sure we can get signings in ASAP then.

If we hit July with no signings again I’d be very worried. Ride this season out, get a deal for Vik done to go in the summer, decide who is going, and start signings pre contracts so we have a new squad in for preseason. Two or three months should be long enough for a team of scouts to produce some options.

Hopefully some options that are actually allowed to come and play in the country this time.

 

[SBAndy]

My concern is that we won’t significantly raise the wage budget which is the real problem here. It’s very sensible to say we want it to match revenue but the fact is championship wages significantly outstrip championship revenue.

Sell some of our players. It’s the only way we’ll see a significant uplift in potential budget.

 

[shmmeee]

Sell some of our players. It’s the only way we’ll see a significant uplift in potential budget.

That’s not a sustainable strategy really. You can’t guarantee £5-10m of sales a season without significant investment every season in potential.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I'm really concerned about the rebuild needed in the summer. A new and untested recruitment department, needing to rebuild a brand new squad. Could be horrendous

We could try and look on the positive side and say a new recruitment team might make better use of the funds we're currently wasting on the likes of Hilssner and Dacosta etc.

It's one to feel both excited and scared at the prospect as it could go either way.

This transfer window I'd have been fine with temporary additions if the right permanent players aren't available but we're almost up to the maximum we can have in a match day squad.

We just have to hope we can get some injured players back, not lose any more and get this season over with and see what next season brings. I feel certain we'll be losing at least one of the big names to help with the rebuild as there is going to be little extra coming from the ownership but maybe we can be stronger overall from it. Time will tell.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Sell some of our players. It’s the only way we’ll see a significant uplift in potential budget.

Hmm not sure I agree with this. It's more likely that selling playes will give the club greater scope to spend more with regards to offering fees but I'd imagine the budget will still be the budget and it isn't likely to increase beyond what it currently is. Not by a great deal anyway. The club's wage structure can't really increase significantly without external investment from the owner.

 

[shmmeee]

Hmm not sure I agree with this. It's more likely that selling playes will give the club greater scope to spend more with regards to offering fees but I'd imagine the budget will still be the budget and it isn't likely to increase beyond what it currently is. Not by a great deal anyway. The club's wage structure can't really increase significantly without external investment from the owner.

Or a significantly more productive commercial team.

 

[Bertola]

Sell some of our players. It’s the only way we’ll see a significant uplift in potential budget.

Lets say we sell Vik for the reported £18m.

Brighton likely to have a sell on between 10% and 20% of Profit - lets call it £2.5m
£3m into club infrastructure (training ground etc)
£1.5m to cover increased rent costs for a few years
£3m as a transfer kitty
leaves £1m a year additional wage budget (plus Vik's wages) for 5 years.

Obviously these are just pie in the sky figures, but even an additional £1m a year, probably only gets you 1 or 2 players at the standard we need.

You can always balance the transfer kitty/wages.... but trying to get fans to sign up to a season ticket after selling your star striker for nearly £20 and replacing him with a free is going to be a struggle.

 

[shmmeee]

We should have continued investing £4-5m a season in you talent like the first two seasons up. Last summer opened a huge hole in the plan by failing to sell anyone of note and not bringing in more “stock”. Really this summer the smart thing to do would be to take the hit and spend £8-10m on 12-15 players with potential. Sell Hamer and Vik and start again.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

We could try and look on the positive side and say a new recruitment team might make better use of the funds we're currently wasting on the likes of Hilssner and Dacosta etc.

It's one to feel both excited and scared at the prospect as it could go either way.

This transfer window I'd have been fine with temporary additions if the right permanent players aren't available but we're almost up to the maximum we can have in a match day squad.

We just have to hope we can get some injured players back, not lose any more and get this season over with and see what next season brings. I feel certain we'll be losing at least one of the big names to help with the rebuild as there is going to be little extra coming from the ownership but maybe we can be stronger overall from it. Time will tell.

Recruiting that many players also poses a few more issues.

1. Cost. More players needed means more budget needed for transfer fees, signing on fees and agent fees. I'd imagine a sale or two will be needed to finance a rebuild although I don't think that comes as a shock to most.
2. Competition for bringing in Championship-quality players is hard enough as it is. Given the amount we need it's going to be even more difficult for the club to bring in the targets they want.
3. Time. Depending on sales in the summer and who they bring in in this window, the club are going to need to bring in somewhere in between of 12-14 players to field a competitive squad next season. Even with a new look recruitment team undertaking a task of that size within one window is a huge ask given the lack of resource it still has at its disposal.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Lets say we sell Vik for the reported £18m.

Brighton likely to have a sell on between 10% and 20% of Profit - lets call it £2.5m
£3m into club infrastructure (training ground etc)
£1.5m to cover increased rent costs for a few years
£3m as a transfer kitty
leaves £1m a year additional wage budget (plus Vik's wages) for 5 years.

Obviously these are just pie in the sky figures, but even an additional £1m a year, probably only gets you 1 or 2 players at the standard we need.

You can always balance the transfer kitty/wages.... but trying to get fans to sign up to a season ticket after selling your star striker for nearly £20 and replacing him with a free is going to be a struggle.

Had exactly the same conversation with my lad. Great post

 

[Bertola]

Had exactly the same conversation with my lad. Great post

I fear that we may need to sell both Vik and Gus this summer (O'Hare likely to stay due to his injury)... but then we really need to be proactive in terms of identifying their replacements, as not only do we need to improve the squad, we'd need to replace two of our most important players

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Lets say we sell Vik for the reported £18m.

Brighton likely to have a sell on between 10% and 20% of Profit - lets call it £2.5m
£3m into club infrastructure (training ground etc)
£1.5m to cover increased rent costs for a few years
£3m as a transfer kitty
leaves £1m a year additional wage budget (plus Vik's wages) for 5 years.

Obviously these are just pie in the sky figures, but even an additional £1m a year, probably only gets you 1 or 2 players at the standard we need.

You can always balance the transfer kitty/wages.... but trying to get fans to sign up to a season ticket after selling your star striker for nearly £20 and replacing him with a free is going to be a struggle.

Unlikely Gyokeres will be sold for £18m. Seems interested clubs are once again looking elsewhere.

Brighton will have a larger sell on clause than that. I suspect it's around 25% of profit. Hoping it's not higher than that but wouldn't be all that shocked either.

EFL loan is around £2.4m I think. Needs repaying next year unless already paid but I doubt it has been unless i've missed something.

Covering the losses will be around £5m a season give or take. I'd imagine DK will want them covered as much as possible.

Any transfer instalments we still have remaining will need paying. Not all that uncommon for them to stretch over 3 even 4 years.

Rent costs will be increasing significantly as you've mentioned. We don't know what commercial deal the club is going to get next year either with regards to the stadium. That will also factor into how much will need to be dedicated to covering overheads. Spoke to someone at the club last week who have stated that FG's demands are unsustainable.

Transfer fees are also paid over 2-3 years as mentioned. Will dictate what Robins can do in the summer window - primarily because it depends how much the parent club of targets will want up front for any players we're interested in which require fees to be paid.

 

[Bertola]

Unlikely Gyokeres will be sold for £18m. Seems interested clubs are once again looking elsewhere.

Brighton will have a larger sell on clause than that. I suspect it's around 25% of profit. Hoping it's not higher than that but wouldn't be all that shocked either.

EFL loan is around £2.4m I think. Needs repaying next year unless already paid but I doubt it has been unless i've missed something.

Covering the overheads will be around £5m a season give or take. I'd imagine DK will want them covered as much as possible.

Any transfer instalments we still have remaining will need paying. Not all that uncommon for them to stretch over 3 even 4 years.

Rent costs will be increasing significantly as you've mentioned. We don't know what commercial deal the club is going to get next year either with regards to the stadium. That will also factor into how much will need to be dedicated to covering overheads. Spoke to someone at the club last week who have stated that FG's demands are unsustainable.

Transfer fees are also paid over 2-3 years as mentioned. Will dictate what Robins can do in the summer window - primarily because it depends how much the parent club of targets will want up front for any players we're interested in which require fees to be paid.

I'd forgotten about the EFL loan, but just wanted to highlight that even selling at £18m... the budget wouldn't get a huge increase

 

[Dickie]

Which is fine, but then expect a very bumpy ride through to the end.

I worry about the ambition when we hand the likes of Wilson a 3 year extension…