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Latest CCFC letter on planning application - Planning Meeting (3 Viewers)

  • Thread starter oldskyblue58
  • Start date Aug 3, 2016
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rondog1973

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #211
Nick said:
Yes, you probably would be.

The bullying hedge fund etc.

What I don't get is people go on about SISU being bullies (which I dont disagree with, based on some of their tactics) but why does it make it OK for Wasps / CCC and CSF to then go all out on CCFC (not SISU).
Click to expand...
The fundamental difference Nick is that Wasps/ACL are in possession of an asset so are entitled to call the shots whether you or I like it or not.

Sisu really are the business world's Black knight of Monty Python fame.

CCC/ACL: "We're selling the stadium to Wasps"
Sisu: "tis but a scratch!"

Wasps: "We are developing the Higgs centre, impacting on your clubs acadamy"
Sisu: "Right, I'll do you for that!"
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #212
skybluetony176 said:
If he hadn't have given that answer would the media have even picked up on it and reported it in the first place. It was either deliberately answered in the way it was for effect or it was incompetence. Either way it's switching focus from where it should be at this moment in time. That's why he shouldn't have answered it.
Click to expand...

Of course the media would have picked up on it. The media didn't make a big headline out of it in the BBC did they? As it was an answer to a general question, an answer which is obvious.

If he had said "I suggest CSF and Wasps do as we say, as we will just move away" then I agree it is insane and a clear threat.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #213
rondog1973 said:
The fundamental difference Nick is that Wasps/ACL are in possession of an asset so are entitled to call the shots whether you or I like it or not.

Sisu really are the business world's Black knight of Monty Python fame.

CCC/ACL: "We're selling the stadium to Wasps"
Sisu: "tis but a scratch!"

Wasps: "We are developing the Higgs centre, impacting on your clubs acadamy"
Sisu: "Right, I'll do you for that!"
Click to expand...

No of course, if Wasps wanted to they could say "fuck off out of the stadium" as could csf at the academy. They are well within their rights and to be honest I'd probably have more respect for them doing it that way as people could see what's happening. Rather than the "door is open", "door is open" stuff.
 
Reactions: Kingokings204

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #214
Nick said:
No of course, if Wasps wanted to they could say "fuck off out of the stadium" as could csf at the academy. They are well within their rights and to be honest I'd probably have more respect for them doing it that way as people could see what's happening. Rather than the "door is open", "door is open" stuff.
Click to expand...

No I don't think you would. I think you'd be up in arms and screaming 'unfair'.
PS That's my opinion on your statement, it is up to others to believe you if they will, I don't.
 

rondog1973

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #215
Nick said:
No of course, if Wasps wanted to they could say "fuck off out of the stadium" as could csf at the academy. They are well within their rights and to be honest I'd probably have more respect for them doing it that way as people could see what's happening. Rather than the "door is open", "door is open" stuff.
Click to expand...
Exactly. So you would think the responses from Sisu would be more conciliatory given their bargaining position.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176, Otis and Bruce the Boot

Nick

Administrator
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #216
Captain Dart said:
No I don't think you would. I think you'd be up in arms and screaming 'unfair'.
PS That's my opinion on your statement, it is up to others to believe you if they will, I don't.
Click to expand...

Did you reply about my stupid questions?

If they came out and said "fuck off" then I would hope that most of the fans would rally behind CCFC (not sisu) and it would mean CCC wouldn't be able to get away with playing their "try and block things" games...

Instead, they say "door is open" to the press so ccfc fans get upset and have a flounce when people say nasty things about those helpful lovely Wasps.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #217
Nick said:
Did you reply about my stupid questions?

If they came out and said "fuck off" then I would hope that most of the fans would rally behind CCFC (not sisu) and it would mean CCC wouldn't be able to get away with playing their "try and block things" games...

Instead, they say "door is open" to the press so ccfc fans get upset and have a flounce when people say nasty things about those helpful lovely Wasps.
Click to expand...

Has anyone truly said they believe that Wasps are lovely and helpful though?

I know you sort of jest, but there has to be a middle ground between Grendel's 'they have set out to destroy us' and people thinking Wasps have done nothing wrong.

I have said a number of times, I think Wasps don't mind having us here as long as it is on their terms and it suits their need.

We will only know how much they want us here when we come to renew at the Ricoh and we see what the rent is set at.
 
Reactions: rondog1973, Kingokings204, Astute and 1 other person

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #218
Nick said:
The difference is, Wasps were halfway through negotiations and stopped weren't they? So they were obviously happy and the fact there were "17 points written down" suggest things were being written down also? Wasps also said they were happy with how the negotiations were going, before they stopped.

Ca said from the start he had requested info in writing for the academy (along with CCC advising for it)
Click to expand...

There's no difference. A refusal to talk is just that, a refusal to talk. It doesn't matter at what stage negotiations were at the nett result is always the same. No progress and no agreement.

Like I said, pick a set of principles and stick to them.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #219
Ian1779 said:
Not sure why we need to talk to Wasps about a facility they don't own based on a plan they haven't had accepted yet.

Unless of course it's a stitch up.
Click to expand...

Because any successful well run business will always cover the angles.
 
Reactions: singers_pore

Nick

Administrator
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #220
skybluetony176 said:
There's no difference. A refusal to talk is just that, a refusal to talk. It doesn't matter at what stage negotiations were at the nett result is always the same. No progress and no agreement.

Like I said, pick a set of principles and stick to them.
Click to expand...

If CA had got halfway through saying how happy he was with negotiations and then changed his mind, then it would be the same and I would agree with you.

If Wasps had said from the start they wouldn't talk because of legal noise then it would be the same.

Of course it matters what stage of the negotiations, as well as the reasons.
 
Last edited: Aug 4, 2016

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #221
Nick said:
Of course the media would have picked up on it. The media didn't make a big headline out of it in the BBC did they? As it was an answer to a general question, an answer which is obvious.

If he had said "I suggest CSF and Wasps do as we say, as we will just move away" then I agree it is insane and a clear threat.
Click to expand...

The media would have picked up on what? If he had have refused to answer it what would there have been to report? If he had have simply replied that he won't be drawn on that at this moment in time as there's currently more pressing issues, that would have been the correct reply as it refocuses the attention back on the academy. Was it a deliberate reply to draw attention to another matter or was it incompetence/naivety?
 
Reactions: Otis

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #222
Otis said:
Has anyone truly said they believe that Wasps are lovely and helpful though?
Click to expand...

Not me, who was it? I have said they're a well run business, that is my opinion.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #223
Nick said:
One thing that does confuse me, if it was absolutely clear that CCFC weren't going to be there. Why did they shell out on a new indoor pitch being laid?
Click to expand...
And why did they pay for the new pitch to be laid in Northampton?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #224
skybluetony176 said:
The media would have picked up on what? If he had have refused to answer it what would there have been to report? If he had have simply replied that he won't be drawn on that at this moment in time as there's currently more pressing issues, that would have been the correct reply as it refocuses the attention back on the academy. Was it a deliberate reply to draw attention to another matter or was it incompetence/naivety?
Click to expand...

They would have reported on the rest of the things they did.

They would have said "Mr Anderson refused to answer". Which then, people would have gone mental.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #225
Otis said:
Has anyone truly said they believe that Wasps are lovely and helpful though?

I know you sort of jest, but there has to be a middle ground between Grendel's 'they have set out to destroy us' and people thinking Wasps have done nothing wrong.

I have said a number of times, I think Wasps don't mind having us here as long as it is on their terms and it suits their need.

We will only know how much they want us here when we come to renew at the Ricoh and we see what the rent is set at.
Click to expand...

No one has but some like to spin it that way. For example I suggested a couple of seasons ago that the club should approach our landlords about a kiosk at the ground for a club shop and promptly got accused of saying all we have to do is ask and Wasps and they will provide. Which of course wasn't what I said at all.

Anyway, we did approach them and we did reach an agreement for a kiosk. Still doesn't stop the odd (in both sense of the word) poster still throwing the "I said all we have to do is ask" line at me as if it's a fact I said. Which I didn't.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #226
Nick said:
If CA had got halfway through saying how happy he was with negotiations and then changed his mind, then it would be the same and I would agree with you.

If Wasps had said from the start they wouldn't talk because of legal noise then it would be the same.

Of course it matters what stage of the negotiations, as well as the reasons.
Click to expand...

They've simply shown CA the carrot, then as he thought all was going well they've pulled out the stick.

Its really not that complicated Nick, they're saying give us what we want (cease legal action, accept Wasps own the Ricoh and start building a partnership) and we will give you what you need (long term stability and a good deal).

CCFC haven't much leverage, having a flounce about moving to a new stadium is even more laughable now than it was 3 years ago.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #227
Lot of fuss about nothing. Wasps have postponed discussions staying after the two years - who cares really.
 

Brylowes

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #228
Buster said:
Think we've been here before. Can't enter into discussions so I'm off and taking the ball with me . If any one knows what SISU really want can you let the rest of us in on it .
Click to expand...
They own the ball !
When did we agree a formula to buy the ball.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #229
Captain Dart said:
They've simply shown CA the carrot, then as he thought all was going well they've pulled out the stick.

Its really not that complicated Nick, they're saying give us what we want (cease legal action, accept Wasps own the Ricoh and start building a partnership) and we will give you what you need (long term stability and a good deal).

CCFC haven't much leverage, having a flounce about moving to a new stadium is even more laughable now than it was 3 years ago.
Click to expand...

Have they said they would give us a good deal then?

Maybe that is why he wants things in writing for the academy then, if they are playing games with the Ricoh.

Sorry, feel free to ignore my stupid questions. Like the other one
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #230
Nick said:
If CA had got halfway through saying how happy he was with negotiations and then changed his mind, then it would be the same and I would agree with you.

If Wasps had said from the start they wouldn't talk because of legal noise then it would be the same.

Of course it matters what stage of the negotiations, as well as the reasons.
Click to expand...

So if Wasp hadn't got around the table regarding the Ricoh in the first place we'd be in a different position to what we are now? No of course we wouldn't, we'd be in exactly the same place. Refusing to talk only has the one outcome, regardless.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #231
Otis said:
I know you sort of jest, but there has to be a middle ground between Grendel's 'they have set out to destroy us' and people thinking Wasps have done nothing wrong.
Click to expand...
It increasingly looks like they don't want us around but also don't want to state that as it would be bad PR.

When they first came in there was lots of talk of being good landlords as they had been in our position but there actions to date indicate otherwise. Since they've come in they've started rebranding the stadium (I understand them wanting to make their mark but there's no need to be so overbearing, particularly in areas like the players tunnel), removed us from our dressing room, removed our access to the indoor warm up area, removed all signs of the club in the corporate areas, renamed other areas so they are no longer linked with CCFC, stopped talking to us about extending our Ricoh deal and are attempting to move in to our academy which may well lead to the loss of our Cat 2 status if not the academy completely.

If you look away from the PR and just look at their actions it doesn't look like we're getting close to a middle ground.
 
Reactions: clint van damme, Astute and Ian1779

Nick

Administrator
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #232
chiefdave said:
It increasingly looks like they don't want us around but also don't want to state that as it would be bad PR.

When they first came in there was lots of talk of being good landlords as they had been in our position but there actions to date indicate otherwise. Since they've come in they've started rebranding the stadium (I understand them wanting to make their mark but there's no need to be so overbearing, particularly in areas like the players tunnel), removed us from our dressing room, removed our access to the indoor warm up area, removed all signs of the club in the corporate areas, renamed other areas so they are no longer linked with CCFC, stopped talking to us about extending our Ricoh deal and are attempting to move in to our academy which may well lead to the loss of our Cat 2 status if not the academy completely.

If you look away from the PR and just look at their actions it doesn't look like we're getting close to a middle ground.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Meanwhile telling the press how helpful they want to be. Dont get me wrong, they own it so they can do it.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #233
Astute said:
And why did they pay for the new pitch to be laid in Northampton?
Click to expand...
Because we were expecting to stay at Sixfields. Would indicate that, once the Wasps deal was agreed, there was a desire by Wasps to ensure we were back at the Ricoh before they moved in as it would be better PR for them.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #234
chiefdave said:
Because we were expecting to stay at Sixfields. Would indicate that, once the Wasps deal was agreed, there was a desire by Wasps to ensure we were back at the Ricoh before they moved in as it would be better PR for them.
Click to expand...

And the fact we moved about 2 games into the season, rather than through the summer...
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #235
Nick said:
Have they said they would give us a good deal then?

Maybe that is why he wants things in writing for the academy then, if they are playing games with the Ricoh.

Sorry, feel free to ignore my stupid questions. Like the other one
Click to expand...

I think nature of the deal is implied, it isn't in quotes. Dear oh dear, this 'I must have the last word' interplay is tiresome.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #236
Captain Dart said:
I think nature of the deal is implied, it isn't in quotes. Dear oh dear, this 'I must have the last word' interplay is tiresome.
Click to expand...

Nah, I am just finding it hilarious you keep ignoring the PM comments

They aren't going to imply they will give us a bad deal are they???
 

Bruce the Boot

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #237
Sisu have said they are building a new stadium , and would move the academy. Do you not think people are taking them at face value and see no pouint in spending time and money dealing with the club , when the club has clearly stated many times it has its own agenda .
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #238
Some questions on CSF doc (take it as read I would like to see emails, minutes etc to confirm). The questions might say one party but I am looking for both sides confirmation

- when did the first consultation on future developments at AHC with CCFC take place( consultation para 1.1.) What was said confirmed agreed. Who attended
- when did CCFC first tell CSF/AHCT they wanted a new deal
- when did CSF/AHCT first tell CCFC that there were developments going to happen and a new different deal needed to be negotiated. Did they tell them.
- when was the conversation between CSF and Sports England. What was confirmed. Was it after the recent disclosed Sport England comment
- were CCFC aware that the agreement they signed in December 2013 was not a tenancy and not renewable. Do they agree it wasn't a tenancy If so why was it termed in that fashion. Why did they accept it.
- why wasn't a longer term arrangement at AHC agreed that gave CCFC Academy security there.
- Can CCFC confirm what CSF have said that present facilities do not match a tick box approach to Cat 2 audit, where do they not meet the rules, and does the latest info sent to CSF by CCFC reflect the rules 100% or something different

You would think that these questions would already have been asked by the reporters covering the story and things like dates would be easy to give. Seems easy to get emails etc when it suits
 
Reactions: skybluetony176, Astute, Captain Dart and 1 other person

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #239
oldskyblue58 said:
Some questions on CSF doc (take it as read I would like to see emails, minutes etc to confirm). The questions might say one party but I am looking for both sides confirmation

- when did the first consultation on future developments at AHC with CCFC take place( consultation para 1.1.) What was said confirmed agreed. Who attended
- when did CCFC first tell CSF/AHCT they wanted a new deal
- when did CSF/AHCT first tell CCFC that there were developments going to happen and a new different deal needed to be negotiated. Did they tell them.
- when was the conversation between CSF and Sports England. What was confirmed. Was it after the recent disclosed Sport England comment
- were CCFC aware that the agreement they signed in December 2013 was not a tenancy and not renewable. Do they agree it wasn't a tenancy If so why was it termed in that fashion. Why did they accept it.
- why wasn't a longer term arrangement at AHC agreed that gave CCFC Academy security there.
- Can CCFC confirm what CSF have said that present facilities do not match a tick box approach to Cat 2 audit, where do they not meet the rules, and does the latest info sent to CSF by CCFC reflect the rules 100% or something different

You would think that these questions would already have been asked by the reporters covering the story and things like dates would be easy to give. Seems easy to get emails etc when it suits
Click to expand...

I'd say both parties are hiding the details they'd rather didn't come out, yeah, the press need to take CCFC/CSF etc. up on these issues.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176

AFCCOVENTRY

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #240
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/higgs-centre-boss-says-coventry-11703313
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #241
CT article on CSF response to CCFC planning objections (their first one that is, not the letter they just sent to planning committee)
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/higgs-centre-boss-says-coventry-11703313

What is implies is that CCFC say one thing in private meetings and something quite different to the public.
 
Reactions: ricohroar

Nick

Administrator
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #242
Captain Dart said:
CT article on CSF response to CCFC planning objections (their first one that is, not the letter they just sent to planning committee)
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/higgs-centre-boss-says-coventry-11703313

What is implies is that CCFC say one thing in private meetings and something quite different to the public.
Click to expand...

They will have it in writing won't they?
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #243
Already known but now from a different source.
Sisu please go.
 
Reactions: ricohroar
D

Deleted member 2477

Guest
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #244
More evidence of sisu cutting costs before leaving us the shit once theyve squeezed every last penny out the club
 
Reactions: COVKIDSNEVERQUIT and ricohroar
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 4, 2016
  • #245
Haven't they said medium- long term though? We all know sisu have been saying a new stadium and academy together for years now. It's nothing new is it? Sounds a good idea to me.

Although to be fair if you want to stay there short term don't piss off the landlords.
 
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