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Judicial Review thread (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter ccfcway
  • Start date Mar 20, 2014
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N

No future with SISU

New Member
  • Jun 10, 2014
  • #771
Grendel said:
Optimistic. I would say 83%
Click to expand...

Nick was been a comic when he said 90%, are you for real. About 5% of fans like SISU and that may be a bit high.
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 10, 2014
  • #772
lordsummerisle said:
It's almost like you weren't complaining like buggery about our "low" wage bill when we got relegated despite it being more than our total turnover isn't it?
Click to expand...

Equally, if you read back, I commented about the basket case of football finances, not just ours. Football clubs, be they ours or anyone else's shouldn't think they can operate outside the rules if business; then go habitually bust, or expect to have their existance subsidised when they pay astronomical wages
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 10, 2014
  • #773
torchomatic said:
Weird. Just what some praise Richardson for.



Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Okay. Here we go again. Another Torchyism. Who's ever praised Richardson on here. I mean, come on, seriously?!?
 

James Smith

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 10, 2014
  • #774
stupot07 said:
So you actually believe that the clubs turnover was in fact £24-25m not £10.8m in 2012/13? That goes against all of the figures OSB has put forward. Yes, talk about people believing what they want to believe....
Click to expand...

I thought and I may have the wrong end of the stick given my head feels like it's full of cotton wool.....but was that figure referring to 2006 i.e. just after we moved to the Ricoh.
 
N

No future with SISU

New Member
  • Jun 10, 2014
  • #775
ccfcway said:
It was CCFC who withheld the rent, not SISU
Click to expand...
You are classic, Ranson left as SISU would not let him run the club his way and now you try and make out CCFC stopped paying the rent. NEWS is SISU told them to stop paying and as SISU own CCFC it is them who stopped paying.
 
H

Huckerby

Guest
  • Jun 10, 2014
  • #776
cant wait to read all of this crap to get involved with the arguments x
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 10, 2014
  • #777
No future with SISU said:
You are classic, Ranson left as SISU would not let him run the club his way and now you try and make out CCFC stopped paying the rent. NEWS is SISU told them to stop paying and as SISU own CCFC it is them who stopped paying.
Click to expand...

Ranson was an incompetent idiot. It figures you liked him.
 
N

No future with SISU

New Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #778
Godiva said:
Maybe, but potentially (if the bail out is found illegal state aid) ACL could be forced to repay the money and look for a new (private sector) lender.
That may be very difficult without the main tenant - ACL could potentially go bust.
Click to expand...
And the lease will revert back to the council as the freehold owners.
 
N

No future with SISU

New Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #779
Grendel said:
Ranson was an incompetent idiot. It figures you liked him.
Click to expand...

Ranson could not do anything as the SISU guy on CCFC board kept blocking his ideas. It is why he resigned.
 
N

No future with SISU

New Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #780
Grendel said:
Ranson was an incompetent idiot. It figures you liked him.
Click to expand...

Where did I say I liked him?. I am not keen on you and you seem like "An incompetent idiot".
 
L

ladespiser

New Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #781
Any support provided by the
council to a trading company counts as
assistance – whether in cash or in kind.
Significant subsidies in grants, assets,
services or kind could be deemed State aid
which is regulated under European
competition rules to stop contractors gaining
an unfair advantage over others. If the total
adds up to more than €200,000 the council
may need to seek permission to proceed
from the European Commission.
To avoid State aid issues, the trading
company should pay commercial rates for all
staff time, premises, payroll, finance, HR,
assets, access to IT systems and other
support that it gets from the local authority.
The council should avoid treating a trading
company more favourably than it would treat any other third party contractor.
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #782
Grendel said:
Ranson was an incompetent idiot. It figures you liked him.
Click to expand...

In fairness he was one of a few SISU appointed failures at the time. Orange Ken, Igne, 'Text in a sub' Brodie. It sometimes amazes me that folk will readily hark back to Richardson and gloss over what happened early-doors with SISU officers.
 
C

Chipfat

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #783
Grendel said:
Ranson was an incompetent idiot. It figures you liked him.
Click to expand...


Please tell me the difference between RR, KD, Tim and Ogne out of interest!! because not one has been an outstanding chairman. And as we all must like one of the previous it would be interesting to know your preference among the growing list of incompetent idiots Sisu have hired and trusted.
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #784
ladespiser said:
Any support provided by the
council to a trading company counts as
assistance – whether in cash or in kind.
Significant subsidies in grants, assets,
services or kind could be deemed State aid
which is regulated under European
competition rules to stop contractors gaining
an unfair advantage over others. If the total
adds up to more than €200,000 the council
may need to seek permission to proceed
from the European Commission.
To avoid State aid issues, the trading
company should pay commercial rates for all
staff time, premises, payroll, finance, HR,
assets, access to IT systems and other
support that it gets from the local authority.
The council should avoid treating a trading
company more favourably than it would treat any other third party contractor.
Click to expand...

Is that altered if the council have a vested interest on the trading company; and could be seen to protect its investment via any support?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #785
No future with SISU said:
Ranson could not do anything as the SISU guy on CCFC board kept blocking his ideas. It is why he resigned.
Click to expand...

Ranson did plenty.

Appointed crap managers
Sanctioned the signing of dross players - most notably Eastwood
Made loans to the club with interesting interest rates
Failed to sell any players for significant transfer fees
The list is endless

Incompetent, useless and we'd be a damn site better off if we'd never seen the sight of him.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #786
Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
In fairness he was one of a few SISU appointed failures at the time. Orange Ken, Igne, 'Text in a sub' Brodie. It sometimes amazes me that folk will readily hark back to Richardson and gloss over what happened early-doors with SISU officers.
Click to expand...

Yup, their selection of bedfellows not the best.

Ironic that away from the obvious(!) Fisher actually seems the most competent of them all!

A bit like saying I prefer cat shit to dog shit that, though.
 
L

ladespiser

New Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #787
https://www.gov.uk/state-aid
 

M&B Stand

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #788
Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
In fairness he was one of a few SISU appointed failures at the time. Orange Ken, Igne, 'Text in a sub' Brodie. It sometimes amazes me that folk will readily hark back to Richardson and gloss over what happened early-doors with SISU officers.
Click to expand...

The damage had been done before any sisu clown appeared
 
C

Chipfat

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #789
We'd be a damn site better if we'd never seen Sisu to hire these people..
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #790
Chipfat said:
We'd be a damn site better if we'd never seen Sisu to hire these people..
Click to expand...

Can put that down to Ranson too.
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #791
Deleted member 5849 said:
Yup, their selection of bedfellows not the best.

Ironic that away from the obvious(!) Fisher actually seems the most competent of them all!

A bit like saying I prefer cat shit to dog shit that, though.
Click to expand...

Yes. The resultant rent strike would have much more credibility if early SISU appointees had publicly articulated its relevance instead of discussing the idea of Sky Blue Sam skipping a few dinners
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #792
ladespiser said:
https://www.gov.uk/state-aid
Click to expand...

Thanks. First sentence, first question: 'If a UK company believes that a competitor is receiving illegal aid...'. Who the hell is ACL's 'competitor'?
 
C

Chipfat

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #793
Put it down to who you like to suit whatever opinion you have, but you know who has the biggest say on how the club is ran and it isn't or wasn't RR..
 
L

ladespiser

New Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #794
there is a cieling of 200,000 euros. after which you need european commision permision, there is no way the council have complied

the problem for ccc is the fact they offered so much and kept the matter a secret from SISU, its anti competitive because SISU were making a play for the ownership of the ricoh, the non payment of rent was not about the rent it was a targeted action to bring down the price of ACL. CCC acted to take the price of ACL back up ... hence all the quotes of 6 million and 12 million etc... CCC faced losing a large amount of money if SISU aquired ACL. Hence the action it took - so it also hiked up its own company worth but by means of public cash not private cash .. . .. in other words state aid.

Local authorities can run business, but they can not use public moneys to do so they are supposed to use banks and act as a tradinig company .

local authority trading companies: here :: https://www.gov.uk/state-aid
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #795
Chipfat said:
Put it down to who you like to suit whatever opinion you have, but you know who has the biggest say on how the club is ran and it isn't or wasn't RR..
Click to expand...

He brought them here, so he has the biggest responsibility for bringing them here, along with those who welcomed them with open arms, Elliott, the council, 99% of the fans...
 
N

No future with SISU

New Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #796
Grendel said:
Ranson did plenty.

Appointed crap managers
Sanctioned the signing of dross players - most notably Eastwood
Made loans to the club with interesting interest rates
Failed to sell any players for significant transfer fees
The list is endless

Incompetent, useless and we'd be a damn site better off if we'd never seen the sight of him.
Click to expand...

Who hired Ranson, was it the council or SISU?
 
L

ladespiser

New Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #797
exactly that is a good question, with the city council prepared to back it all the way there arent any, which then raises monolopy issues, but thankfully that hasnt raised its head in the JR
 

Rusty Trombone

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #798
ladespiser said:
there is a cieling of 200,000 euros. after which you need european commision permision, there is no way the council have complied

the problem for ccc is the fact they offered so much and kept the matter a secret from SISU, its anti competitive because SISU were making a play for the ownership of the ricoh, the non payment of rent was not about the rent it was a targeted action to bring down the price of ACL. CCC acted to take the price of ACL back up ... hence all the quotes of 6 million and 12 million etc... CCC faced losing a large amount of money if SISU aquired ACL. Hence the action it took - so it also hiked up its own company worth but by means of public cash not private cash .. . .. in other words state aid.

Local authorities can run business, but they can not use public moneys to do so they are supposed to use banks and act as a tradinig company .

local authority trading companies: here :: https://www.gov.uk/state-aid
Click to expand...

The judge may as well stop the review now (you do know there is a review of this going on?). You should have mentioned this before.
 
N

No future with SISU

New Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #799
ladespiser said:
there is a cieling of 200,000 euros. after which you need european commision permision, there is no way the council have complied

the problem for ccc is the fact they offered so much and kept the matter a secret from SISU, its anti competitive because SISU were making a play for the ownership of the ricoh, the non payment of rent was not about the rent it was a targeted action to bring down the price of ACL. CCC acted to take the price of ACL back up ... hence all the quotes of 6 million and 12 million etc... CCC faced losing a large amount of money if SISU aquired ACL. Hence the action it took - so it also hiked up its own company worth but by means of public cash not private cash .. . .. in other words state aid.

Local authorities can run business, but they can not use public moneys to do so they are supposed to use banks and act as a tradinig company .

local authority trading companies: here :: https://www.gov.uk/state-aid
Click to expand...

Who said they used public money, I understand it was money the council got from a bank loan.
 
C

Chipfat

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #800
Again pick who you want i don't care, but he has left and Sisu are still in control, i don't think any of the names mentioned are or have been good for our club.. I also think some have lead the owners down the wrong path but if they hire and trust these people they have to take ownership of the problem when it goes wrong, not carry on eyes closed to an ever increasing problem...
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #801
ladespiser said:
there is a cieling of 200,000 euros. after which you need european commision permision, there is no way the council have complied

the problem for ccc is the fact they offered so much and kept the matter a secret from SISU, its anti competitive because SISU were making a play for the ownership of the ricoh, the non payment of rent was not about the rent it was a targeted action to bring down the price of ACL. CCC acted to take the price of ACL back up ... hence all the quotes of 6 million and 12 million etc... CCC faced losing a large amount of money if SISU aquired ACL. Hence the action it took - so it also hiked up its own company worth but by means of public cash not private cash .. . .. in other words state aid.

Local authorities can run business, but they can not use public moneys to do so they are supposed to use banks and act as a tradinig company .

local authority trading companies: here :: https://www.gov.uk/state-aid
Click to expand...

The problem with that, surely, would be that for SISU to establish themselves as 'competitor' in that context, they'd need to admit the distressing tactic. Which in public protestations they've always denied. 'Average League One rents', 'it's all about revenues, stupid', etc.

Unless they 'fess up, I don't see them as 'competitor' and there falling at the first hurdle?!?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #802
Grendel said:
Ranson did plenty.

Appointed crap managers
Sanctioned the signing of dross players - most notably Eastwood
Made loans to the club with interesting interest rates
Failed to sell any players for significant transfer fees
The list is endless

Incompetent, useless and we'd be a damn site better off if we'd never seen the sight of him.
Click to expand...

Not that I disagree. But how many of them have changed since he left?
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #803
What was the last football match to reach 800+ posts on a thread?
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #804
CCFC said:
What was the last football match to reach 800+ posts on a thread?
Click to expand...

When was the last football match thread that was started three months before kick-off and the game lasted for three days?
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 11, 2014
  • #805
shmmeee said:
Not that I disagree. But how many of them have changed since he left?
Click to expand...

Think done better with managers in Robins and Pressley(so far), and received decent sums for Bigi, Keogh and Clarke in comparision to what we have done previously.

Looks like holding out for top money on Wilson too, though as with anything, if we sell a player "It's too cheap and will really miss him", if we don't, it's "Why didn't we sell him or extend his contract rather than let his contract run down?" or "Why did we give him a massive contract?He's useless".

Very few ways any owners of any club can win with any fans!
 
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