Calista
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Damning with faint praise.
Josh Eccles (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ccfcisparks
- Start date
2024/25 League 1 Champs?
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Brighton Sky Blue
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I meant graduated this century but still, Marcus Hall is some way down the listboth played for us this century
Manchester_sky_blue
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Eccles is doing a grand job, building on his excellent form on the run in to the play offs last season. He's made that spot his own and if Torp wants the spot he'll have to fight tooth and nail for it.
Baffles me why players who step up from our academy are given a much harder time to external signings. Eccles has barely put a foot wrong yet many don't give him the credit he deserves. I also think he suffers from not fitting into the stereotype that midfielders either have to be flashy or nasty bastards which is clearly bollox in the modern game.
Baffles me why players who step up from our academy are given a much harder time to external signings. Eccles has barely put a foot wrong yet many don't give him the credit he deserves. I also think he suffers from not fitting into the stereotype that midfielders either have to be flashy or nasty bastards which is clearly bollox in the modern game.
JulianDarbyFTW
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I think we vastly under-rate our own players. I'm certainly guilty of it. And home-grown players even moreso. But I reckon 20 of the 24 teams in this division would happily have Eccles in their first team or on their bench. He's far better than we give him credit for. Like MR said, Eccles could be “anything he wants,” if he applies himself correctly.
fernandopartridge
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Both came through in the 90s really
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2024/25 League 1 Champs?
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I don’t think this is the case - I’m not speaking for everybody of course, but I think the point with Eccles, which I’ve said before, is that he’s a decent player but he’s nothing special and personally I don’t see how people can argue otherwise….
He hasn’t ’made the position his own’, it’s been pretty much defaulted to him this season because he’s the safest option we have there at the minute (Torp excluded as he’s currently an unknown), although there is a strong argument Latibeaudiere is a better defensive midfielder when needed.
He didn’t really play in midfield last season, and he definitely wasn’t ahead of our midfielders, including at that point Jamie Allen and even Liam Kelly! Granted this season he’s edged in front / Kelly has dropped off, so there is definitely an upwards trajectory re his improvement.
I would be surprised however if, as soon as Torp is up to speed and performing as we are led to believe he can, he doesn’t take Eccles’ place in the team, and Eccles will be a great back up to Sheaf in that case, but starts will be few and far between.
The thing is some people here are so excited about a player that I think in a lot of people’s opinions hasn’t done anything special (as yet) and if you compare him to Maddison for example he’s nowhere near the level JM was - whether that’s because your standards have dropped, or whether actually there’s something others aren’t seeing I don’t know, but I don’t think there’s malice or anything like that, or at least I’d like to hope there isn’t!
If I flip it slightly on its head, if we’d signed him this season for say £4/5m (some of the figures I think have been quoted on here) and he was playing as he is would you be over the moon, or disappointed and wanting more?
He’s definitely doing a job, definitely improving, but in my, and others’ opinions, just a decent *
above average championship midfielder
apologies in advance too if I’m called out for either writing a short story or being an ‘Eccles hater’, but we’re all entitled to opinions, and I’ll happily be proved wrong when he’s bossing our midfield in the Prem next season….
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Martin180
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Was a decent post until you said average
Martin180
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Ok I will bite.
You can’t compare him to Maddison cause if that is the benchmark what is the point of an academy ?
And you weirdly suggest a 4/5 million valuation for a player we’ve developed , isn’t that just completely missing the point of academy development ?
And you’re obsessed that he can’t hold a midfield together , yet he did through last seasons run in , did it again early this season and continues to be a vital cog
If anything all your pointless rant does is reemphasise the original post about home grown players
Ill call it again as I have in the past , pathetic
long way home
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I don't think we can ask much more of him at this time to be honest. He is a young player who we have seen make steadily improvements each season. He is starting to look stronger and his body is now managing the work load that's required for him to be the important player and be a big part of what we do.
With time he will get even better and will add certain parts to his game that I think are missing. I honestly think at this point, he maximizes the tools he has, he is a very clever player for us when we don't have the ball. His field awareness is very good this allows him to close space very quickly, breaks up play and slows it down when we are out of possession. He is a proper ratter, but in my opinion can be so much better as he isn't bad with the ball.
With another set of games and a pre season in him i hope he adds a creative side which will involve his distribution and ability to assist and score more. He has it in him just needs time and the confidence to be that allround player which could take him to a higher standard
Never lets us down and if Robins put hom on the transfer list his door would be knocked down by more clubs than you would think. I like more than i don't when i watch him and enjoy seeing him celebrate a win luke he is a kid in the stand. Good luck to the boy, he will be getting his 100th appearance for fir us soon enough and that is down to his desire, work ethic and the talent he has, nothing more to it..
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With time he will get even better and will add certain parts to his game that I think are missing. I honestly think at this point, he maximizes the tools he has, he is a very clever player for us when we don't have the ball. His field awareness is very good this allows him to close space very quickly, breaks up play and slows it down when we are out of possession. He is a proper ratter, but in my opinion can be so much better as he isn't bad with the ball.
With another set of games and a pre season in him i hope he adds a creative side which will involve his distribution and ability to assist and score more. He has it in him just needs time and the confidence to be that allround player which could take him to a higher standard
Never lets us down and if Robins put hom on the transfer list his door would be knocked down by more clubs than you would think. I like more than i don't when i watch him and enjoy seeing him celebrate a win luke he is a kid in the stand. Good luck to the boy, he will be getting his 100th appearance for fir us soon enough and that is down to his desire, work ethic and the talent he has, nothing more to it..
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Martin180
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Viveash has been quoted saying he will be as good as he wants to be , he obviously has all the natural attributes to be a very good player now he needs to add to that to take his game to the next level
2024/25 League 1 Champs?
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* edited
Martin180
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Genuine question , what does he do badly ? What does he do that you don’t appreciate ?
SlowerThanPlatt
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What’s the point in this comparison you keep pushing, has anybody suggested he’s going to reach that level?
2024/25 League 1 Champs?
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this is pretty much the point, he might have the attributes but you’ve said it yourself he needs to add to take his game to the next level, so he’s not there yet….and yet people act like he is, and / or like he has to be given the time because he’s home grown, which I’m not necessarily against but when a lot of fans want promotion yesterday they won’t have the patience, especially when there’s money to spend and clearly better players out there - this I think is part of the issue…
and by the way, you say he held the midfield together but half the time he played at RWB, and most of his starts in midfield were when Sheaf or Hamer (and Kelly) were injured, but a number were also from the bench…
I don’t think he’s a bad player, he’s just not (maybe not-yet) a great one in my opinion.
….and calling someone pathetic just for having an opinion that doesn’t match yours? really??
2024/25 League 1 Champs?
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I personally think he’s a bit weak on the ball and often turns into trouble, his overall picture of what’s ahead and around him could be better…
I don’t want to mention his corners, and actually fair play to him for persevering, but he needs to realise when to give up and let someone else have a go
Occasionally I also see him out of position, and berating others around him for not picking up what should be his man.
BUT he also does play good forward passes contrary to some opinions, and he doesn’t shirk a tackle, plus he’s obviously passionate.
I mean, having said all this I was a big fan of Jordan Shipley and was a bit gutted when we let him go, however he was also marmite with fans and had things he needed to improve on, but in my opinion would’ve been a great player had he had the opportunity here, so
2024/25 League 1 Champs?
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I’m trying to explain what I see as being behind some people’s opinions, and what you / others on this thread see as ‘hatred towards a homegrown player’
I don’t think it’s anything to do with the player as much as it is to do with some people believing he’s the best thing since sliced bread, particularly I guess because he’s also homegrown and, turning the argument on its head, meaning he therefore perhaps gets more leeway in terms of making mistakes for instance, and almost viewed with rose tinted glasses by some.
He wouldn’t be playing for us if he wasn’t good enough, but I think some people see the putting him on a pedestal that happens as unjustified.
My comparison with Maddison is simply to give a player who did deserve to be put on that pedestal when he was with us, and nothing more - he won’t ever be that good but a lot of very good midfielders aren’t.
Just to clarify, and I’m sure I’ve said it before anyway, I don’t think he’s a bad player at all and have nothing against the lad - he’s improving, he cares about the club and gives his all when he plays, and more importantly than any of that he wears Sky Blue - whoever is picked and plays I’m 100% behind..
long way home
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A few occasions at different time periods i was around pro players and often the obvious question would be asked, who's the best you played with and against. Obviously the answers would be different with different people. But one name that would always come up around a certain period with Cov players was the name Paul Telfer. He is a proper players player, would often follow that name being given. I never thought id hear that name in a team full of top players in my mind., but time and time again his name came up.
After a few times i realized what i see as a fan, is an opinion of something i know nothing about. The game yeah, i think we all know a bit, but the pro game not even close to knowing the level they are at.
I now am happy to read others opinions on the club and game i love. And put my two penn'orth in as a fan, but by know means an expert.
After a few times i realized what i see as a fan, is an opinion of something i know nothing about. The game yeah, i think we all know a bit, but the pro game not even close to knowing the level they are at.
I now am happy to read others opinions on the club and game i love. And put my two penn'orth in as a fan, but by know means an expert.
shmmeee
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Like Sheaf he just lacks the passing range and willingness to shoot from distance (with effect), and in a head to head with Sheaf he slightly loses out IMO. That’s not saying he’s a bad player, Sheaf is a very good one and between them they’re two of the best in the division. It’s just if we want to get that quicker ball movement and wider range in the middle we need another option. Hopefully that’s Torp.
Manchester_sky_blue
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Well you've kinda made my argument for me to be honest. Eccles is keeping Latibeaudiere and Kelly out of the side and across 2 transfer windows, Robins has stuck with him despite the loss of Hamer and ample opportunity to bring in alternatives. To me, that means he's absolutely made the spot his own and I'm struggling to see what the counter argument is.
Robins major strength is that he isn't sentimental. If Latibeaudiere or Allen looked the better option in training then he'd absolutely drop Eccles (or Sheaf for that matter) without a second thought. Now that he's here, Torp will have an equal opportunity to get it the team but he's going to have to really work for it.
Hutch11
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You've already been proven wrong by the kids performances this season
Skybluedownunder
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You can’t compare to Maddison as a bench mark, Maddison is unique, you don’t get an England international every day out of the academy who goes on to be worth as much as he is.
We’ve been lucky to have two players make it to the England squad in the last decade but I can’t remember the last academy grad to do it before them.
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mmttww
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Yep. He's similar to Sheaf, which is what we'll need in some games. In others, we'll need something else. If Sheaf's form falls away or he's unavailable, Eccles can play that role. He played a big role getting us to a Playoff Final, and has played a big role this season. Glad we have him.
2024/25 League 1 Champs?
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Lats is a very defensive midfielder and a better option when we set up defensively, as we’ve seen when he plays over Eccles, which he has done recently
I’m not sure Robins chose not to bring in alternatives either, and you say over two transfer windows yet he’s brought in a midfielder this window so not sure your argument holds here
I take your point about sentimentality, however it’s funny that Robins has been accused by many of exactly that on a number of occasions, particularly recently with Godden for example, although I don’t buy it myself.
2024/25 League 1 Champs?
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cracking argument palCcfcisparks
Well-Known Member
He’s a very defensive midfielder because he’s a defender. I’m sure you could get Kitching to do the same job.
suggesting he’s an equal component to Eccles in that position is an insult to Eccles quite frankly.
2024/25 League 1 Champs?
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of course I can - my point is people are getting as excited about Eccles as they did when Maddison broke through, and part of the reason is probably he’s home grown, but the two are poles apart.
2024/25 League 1 Champs?
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yet he’s played recently in that position preferred to Eccles, and played very well…
and plays there internationally?
harvey098
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It is interesting that he doesn’t get the same “love” that Shipley did for being an academy player making it in the first team. When you consider Shipley came through in league 2 and was quite sparadic compared to Eccles who is consistently performing in a top 6 championship side.
There doesn’t seem to be a huge connection with him and the fans compared to what it should be for an academy lad performing at this level.
There doesn’t seem to be a huge connection with him and the fans compared to what it should be for an academy lad performing at this level.
2024/25 League 1 Champs?
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OK I’m bored of this now, so in summary:
Eccles is a good player, a solid and improving midfielder who I am happy to have in the squad, and who definitely does a job in the team when he plays. He and Sheaf are similar, Sheaf in my opinion (and the stats probably back this up) is the better player, and there are times when Sheaf and Eccles may be effective together, but likely they will be interchangeable.
In my opinion he’s not going to be the next multimillion pound superstar, despite some of the excitement on here surrounding him (which I sometimes struggle to understandbut I respect others’ opinions and will happily be proved wrong.
I don’t think I’ve ever slated him, and as I’ve said before I’ll get behind anybody who plays in the shirt - and hopefully he’ll have a long and successful career here.
Im out…..
Eccles is a good player, a solid and improving midfielder who I am happy to have in the squad, and who definitely does a job in the team when he plays. He and Sheaf are similar, Sheaf in my opinion (and the stats probably back this up) is the better player, and there are times when Sheaf and Eccles may be effective together, but likely they will be interchangeable.
In my opinion he’s not going to be the next multimillion pound superstar, despite some of the excitement on here surrounding him (which I sometimes struggle to understandbut I respect others’ opinions and will happily be proved wrong.
I don’t think I’ve ever slated him, and as I’ve said before I’ll get behind anybody who plays in the shirt - and hopefully he’ll have a long and successful career here.
Im out…..
Mucca Mad Boys
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With Shipley, he scored a goal in the playoff final and he got promoted twice with us. To be fair, he scored quite a decent amount of goals and goal scorers get more adulation. All that said, Shipley has criticised a lot in the Championship - ‘not fit to wear the shirt’ was said a lot about him.
Eccles plays a rather unglamorous, but important role in the team. Higher division means more scrutiny when youngsters come through I think.
I don’t, for the life of me, understand why we wasted the ‘Allez Allez Allez’ chant on Shipley though.
Hutch11
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Not really an argument, it's just facts
You're bored? I mean you have written so many posts criticising and dismissing Eccles contributions, including twelve on this thread, some of which are ridiculously long. All of them say essentially the same old nonsense yet it's you who is bored!
Frostie
Well-Known Member
Lati is great as a utility player but to suggest he offers more in midfield than Eccles is utter madness. Which games has he been preferred in midfield to Eccles?
He's ok as a stop gap in midfield when needs must but his limitations on the ball are obvious.
Yes he plays there internationally but that's for a team that ranks alongside the likes of Burkina Faso & Panama who simply have a dearth of talent in that position.
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