Israel - Palestinian Conflict (17 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I’ve tried to be nuanced in my posts on this and the other (Trump) thread if they haven’t come across that way so be it but I was quite clear I didn’t want us involved in any war, thought that Trump will do what’s best for him first and then America and that Netanyahu is a war criminal

The fact is I despise everything that the Islamic state stands for, as much as they despise us (an our way of life) so said they deserve what’s coming to them

If you want lack of nuance maybe look elsewhere

Trump has broken his own country's laws to do this FFS.

 

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[skybluetony176]

But if you’ve got to ‘pick a side’ I’d always go with the one that shares more of our values and beliefs and doesn’t despise our way of life etc and that’s not the Islamic Republic of Iran

Really Steve? You think we as a nation have shared values with the murderous Israeli state? Maybe in colonial times or even as recently as the 50’s and 60’s when we were committing atrocities in Kenya to try and stop the Mau Mau rebellion but surely we’re better than that as a nation now. I would certainly hope so.

 

[CCFCSteve]

I don't see how the State of Israel which has murdered nearly 100,000 people and openly admitted the desire to carry out ethnic cleansing shares our values any more than Iran does.

Even taking that to one side, the US haven't even followed domestic, never mind international law in doing this. Trump has carried out acts of war against Venezuela and Iran without seeking congressional approval. People like you can't even bring themselves to admit that much.

People like me ?!

If you can’t see the difference between Israel and Iran regime, when I’ve just said the regime chanted ‘Death to England’ last year, punish homosexuals with the death penalty, have fuck all respect for women and their rights and hate our freedoms and way of life, then I worry

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

People like me ?!

If you can’t see the difference between Israel and Iran regime, when I’ve just said the regime chanted ‘Death to England’ last year, punish homosexuals with the death penalty, have fuck all respect for women and their rights and hate our freedoms and way of life, then I worry

It's not about supporting the regime whatsoever. It's about having broken domestic and international law to assassinate leaders of another country at worst without any plan for whatever happens next or at best, installing an Israeli approved puppet.

 

[Grendel]

Really Steve? You think we as a nation have shared values with the murderous Israeli state? Maybe in colonial times or even as recently as the 50’s and 60’s when we were committing atrocities in Kenya to try and stop the Mau Mau rebellion but surely we’re better than that as a nation now. I would certainly hope so.

Did you stay to the end yesterday Tonester or miss the late drama?

 

[CCFCSteve]

It's not about supporting the regime whatsoever. It's about having broken domestic and international law to assassinate leaders of another country at worst without any plan for whatever happens next or at best, installing an Israeli approved puppet.

I never said supported. You just said

‘I don't see how the State of Israel which has murdered nearly 100,000 people and openly admitted the desire to carry out ethnic cleansing shares our values any more than Iran does’

I’ve just explained why I disagree. You then start talking about Trump and what might happen with regard to regime change in future again.

 

[ccfc1234]

I don't have a deep knowledge of the day to day life of citizens in Iran and therefore am always cautious of over reach in terms of suggesting I understand the views of people who have first hand experience. However about 15 years ago I went to Stockholm as a young man and on the plane was sat next to an Iranian mother who had her 4 daughters in the row behind. We chatted and it turned out she was a liberal progressive who felt there was zero opportunity for her daughters to reach their potential under a theocratic goverment that actively oppressed women, and that she wanted her daughters to live a life of hope and opportunity. Today I thought of them and expect they will be happy.

I sincerely hope the USA etc have a long term plan as this is always the concern with regime change.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I never said supported. You just said

‘I don't see how the State of Israel which has murdered nearly 100,000 people and openly admitted the desire to carry out ethnic cleansing shares our values any more than Iran does’

I’ve just explained why I disagree. You then start talking about Trump and what might happen with regard to regime change in future again.

Just ignore all the killing, destruction and genocidal behaviour of the Israeli regime then. Look, we're just not going to agree on this one-laws and processes should matter, mass murder should matter regardless of who does it.

Israel is an apartheid, supremacist state. Why it should be allowed to decide the leaders of other sovereign countries I don't know-perhaps you can enlighten us.

 

[LarryGrayson]

People like me ?!

If you can’t see the difference between Israel and Iran regime, when I’ve just said the regime chanted ‘Death to England’ last year, punish homosexuals with the death penalty, have fuck all respect for women and their rights and hate our freedoms and way of life, then I worry

irans regime is evil and despotick ill shed no tears if it falls am worried what comes next tho it often gets worse when america tries this

 

[CCFCSteve]

Just ignore all the killing, destruction and genocidal behaviour of the Israeli regime then. Look, we're just not going to agree on this one-laws and processes should matter, mass murder should matter regardless of who does it.

Israel is an apartheid, supremacist state. Why it should be allowed to decide the leaders of other sovereign countries I don't know-perhaps you can enlighten us.

I’d like to think the Iranian people will decide but I guess we’ll have to wait and see what happens. I’m still not convinced the regime will fall but only time will tell

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I’d like to think the Iranian people will decide but I guess we’ll have to wait and see what happens. I’m still not convinced the regime will fall but only time will tell

The Iranian people won’t be allowed to choose someone without US or Israeli approval. The Shah’s son is clearly who those countries would prefer.

 

[PVA]

Im not. On the kuensberg show they have an Iranian journalist on the show and she admits she’s genuinely pleased he’s dead.

Guess she’s in the minority

I don't think anyone here has said they're upset Khamenei is dead have they?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don't think anyone here has said they're upset Khamenei is dead have they?

Nope, they just think this inconvenient thing called ‘the law’ should have been followed.

 

[SBT]

I sincerely hope the USA etc have a long term plan as this is always the concern with regime change.

Hahahahaha

 

[SBT]

The fact is I despise everything that the Islamic state stands for, as much as they despise us (an our way of life) so said they deserve what’s coming to them

Again, this is such an obvious statement that it’s facile. Khamenei deserving what’s coming to him doesn’t automatically make this a successful operation.

The idea that foreign policy is just about picking the ‘sides’ you like and killing the bad guys from the ones you don’t should have died a death in 2003 - apparently not.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

They are still mainly on the streets praising Trump now. I’m sure that irks you but that seems what’s being reported?

Cos we've never seen people celebrating in the street about a US invasion only for it to go to absolute shit before, have we...?

 

[PVA]

They are still mainly on the streets praising Trump now. I’m sure that irks you but that seems what’s being reported?

 

[Grendel]

Well as I’ve said there is a fascist element that support extremism. After all the now dead Supreme Leader said America is Satan on earth.

Knock yourself for finding some Islamic propaganda though

 

[CCFCSteve]

.

Again, this is such an obvious statement that it’s facile. Khamenei deserving what’s coming to him doesn’t automatically make this a successful operation.

The idea that foreign policy is just about picking the ‘sides’ you like and killing the bad guys from the ones you don’t should have died a death in 2003 - apparently not.

Who said it was a successful operation ? Ive even just said Im not sure the regime would fall.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I can understand that there's a skeptical view of who will be in charge next, but that's as far as it should go. Just arguments for the sake of it really.

What is more important is that this regime was barbaric and what they've done to their own people was a disgrace. Some of the behaviour on here is as if it was wrong not to let Khamenei carry on murdering his own citizens, which is really only the case because Trump was the one that helped take him out. It's very strange.

Hopefully the future of Iran is better than what they've had to go through in more recent history. Maybe the Green party can take a lesson from it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I can understand that there's a skeptical view of who will be in charge next, but that's as far as it should go. Just arguments for the sake of it really.

What is more important is that this regime was barbaric and what they've done to their own people was a disgrace. Some of the behaviour on here is as if it was wrong not to let Khamenei carry on murdering his own citizens, which is really only the case because Trump was the one that helped take him out. It's very strange.

Hopefully the future of Iran is better than what they've had to go through in more recent history. Maybe the Green party can take a lesson from it.

Why have we let Netanyahu carry on murdering Palestinians then? What makes one murderer acceptable and the other not?

 

[Grendel]

So

Why have we let Netanyahu carry on murdering Palestinians then? What makes one murderer acceptable and the other not?

where has he mentioned Israel?

 

[fatso]

Trump has broken his own country's laws to do this FFS.

I wouldn't worry about it mate.
Trump certainly won't.

And im sure he will pardon himself if any one gets too upset

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So


where has he mentioned Israel?

Netanyahu's regime is barbaric, what he's done to Palestinians is a disgrace. Some of the behaviour on here is as if it is wrong to not let Netanyahu carry on murdering Palestinian civilians, which is really only the case because he's Trump's mate.

Ignoring the clear double standards, this whole operation is happening not so that Iranians can freely choose who runs the country, it's so Israel can install a puppet leader.

 

[LarryGrayson]

Why have we let Netanyahu carry on murdering Palestinians then? What makes one murderer acceptable and the other not?

neither are acceptable

 

[Grendel]

Netanyahu's regime is barbaric, what he's done to Palestinians is a disgrace. Some of the behaviour on here is as if it is wrong to not let Netanyahu carry on murdering Palestinian civilians, which is really only the case because he's Trump's mate.

Ignoring the clear double standards, this whole operation is happening not so that Iranians can freely choose who runs the country, it's so Israel can install a puppet leader.

I thought you said it was nothing about regime change?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

neither are acceptable

Yet one has been taken out so the other can appoint his successor.

 

[Grendel]

Yet one has been taken out so the other can appoint his successor.

This is a made up narrative in your head

It’s just bizarre thought processes

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This is a made up narrative in your head

It’s just bizarre thought processes

Of course it's made up, I'm sure if the Iranians select an anti-Western leader he won't be getting scraped up from the pavement either.

 

[duffer]

I can understand that there's a skeptical view of who will be in charge next, but that's as far as it should go. Just arguments for the sake of it really.

What is more important is that this regime was barbaric and what they've done to their own people was a disgrace. Some of the behaviour on here is as if it was wrong not to let Khamenei carry on murdering his own citizens, which is really only the case because Trump was the one that helped take him out. It's very strange.

Hopefully the future of Iran is better than what they've had to go through in more recent history. Maybe the Green party can take a lesson from it.

Maybe you should take a lesson from what's happened in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, and Libya before you start brainlessly warbling on about the Green party.

It's funny how the same people that hate immigrants from war-torn countries turning up here, are now in such a rush to cheer on another illegal war elsewhere.

The fucking pretence that Trump and Israel are doing this for the benefit of the oppressed Iranians is for the birds, anyone who believes that should probably avoid bridge related purchases for a while.

 

[LarryGrayson]

Of course it's made up, I'm sure if the Iranians select an anti-Western leader he won't be getting scraped up from the pavement either.

well see i think just about all of us can say iran govt pretty bad awful but who the hell would trust trump with replacing it

 

[Grendel]

Maybe you should take a lesson from what's happened in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, and Libya before you start brainlessly warbling on about the Green party.

It's funny how the same people that hate immigrants from war-torn countries turning up here, are now in such a rush to cheer on another illegal war elsewhere.

The fucking pretence that Trump and Israel are doing this for the benefit of the oppressed Iranians is for the birds, anyone who believes that should probably avoid bridge related purchases for a while.

Christ I think you need a break from the internet

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Christ I think you need a break from the internet

I'm intrigued that having for ages said why should we care about anything that doesn't happen in the UK, you've now said that actually what happens in the Middle East is now really important for us here.

What has prompted this Damascene conversion?

 

[skybluetony176]

Looking at some of scenes of public grieving in Iran it looks like there’s still support in Iran for the Islamic revolution in large numbers, is it as large as those who oppose it I don’t know as both sides clearly have sizeable support. The notion that Israel and the US has a win here as they got the man is premature to say the least, especially as there’s clearly a military willing to carry out revenge attacks on its neighbours.

Not sure there’s much of a plan on what to do next here. At the moment it doesn’t look like there’s even a hint of a revolution coming. Not least because the Islamic government clearly still has a hold on the military.

I’m always reminded at times like this about Rich Hall’s line about the US thinking Bin Laden was the man, get him and you’ve won. Which as he pointed out just because the Colonel’s head is on the bucket it doesn’t mean he’s out back cooking the chicken. It’s likely to be the case that supreme leader is dead, long live the supreme leader. It’s hard to see how that’s going to change without a civil war and I just can’t see that happening, at least not successfully or without a western ground invasion. The latter Trump probably is stupid enough to attempt, I just hope this time we aren’t stupid enough to join them.

 

[Grendel]

I'm intrigued that having for ages said why should we care about anything that doesn't happen in the UK, you've now said that actually what happens in the Middle East is now really important for us here.

What has prompted this Damascene conversion?

I’ve always said the Middle East is a danger to the uk. Pipsqueak banana republics in South America aren’t