Israel - Palestinian Conflict (10 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He's been clear in the past he has no issue with innocent Muslims being bombed just because he doesn't agree with their views.

I'm told that I'm in the minority of opinion on this, but if that is the majority opinion I'm glad to be. It was once the majority consensus that the Earth was the centre of the universe and that diseases were caused by 'bad humours' in the body.

 

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[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Wish we would resign Sheaf so he would just go back to spouting crap about him

It might be a low bar on these threads, but you seem to struggle to engage in these discussions properly. I'm not sure you have the maturity or intelligence for them to be honest.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

It might be a low bar on these threads, but you seem to struggle to engage in these discussions properly. I'm not sure you have the maturity or intelligence for them to be honest.

Fantastic personal insults. Fortunately I don't engage in them properly as they are depressing to read. If only I had your intelligence Earlsdon I'd be able to travel the world dating models as you do.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Isn't the population of Israel around 9 million?

The population of Gaza is 2m, so what’s your point?

The mask finally slipped today at least

Yep but not in the way you think.

there are almost 10m people in Israel, did they intend that day to kill most or all of them that day?

No, it was a vile terrorist attack

So Hamas militants invade Israel, rejoice in specifically killing Jews and that is not genocidal? Using the definitions you and others rely on for your own purposes, scale isn’t actually important. It’s the intent behind it and Hamas’ intentions were v clear.

Using your logic, at what point did the IDF move from legitimate military response to terrorism to then genocide? From an earlier post you seem to suggest it was genocide from Day 1.

What is the specified aim of Hamas?

It’s inherently strange to see several left wing posters who regularly comment about fascists in the UK, USA and Europe. Come to ignore that Hamas’ offshoots that is deeply antisemitic with links to al-Husayni, who met with Hitler and was a Nazi sympathiser. Again, their charters were amended in 2017 that all but changed references of ‘Jews’ to ‘Zionist’. There’s an unbelievably naive view of Hamas in the West.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s inherently strange to see several left wing posters who regularly comment about fascists in the UK, USA and Europe. Come to ignore that Hamas’ offshoots that is deeply antisemitic with links to al-Husayni, who met with Hitler and was a Nazi sympathiser. Again, their charters were amended in 2017 that all but changed references of ‘Jews’ to ‘Zionist’. There’s an unbelievably naive view of Hamas in the West.

Who on here has expressed support for Hamas?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Who on here has expressed support for Hamas?

There is no element of nuance to any of their comments. They can't grasp the concept that you can have empathy for a group of people who have been marginalised, whilst also not supporting the terrorist actions of a group on that "side"

 

[Sick Boy]

It’s inherently strange to see several left wing posters who regularly comment about fascists in the UK, USA and Europe. Come to ignore that Hamas’ offshoots that is deeply antisemitic with links to al-Husayni, who met with Hitler and was a Nazi sympathiser. Again, their charters were amended in 2017 that all but changed references of ‘Jews’ to ‘Zionist’. There’s an unbelievably naive view of Hamas in the West.

It’s also inherently strange to assume criticism of Israel automatically makes someone supportive or sympathetic of Hamas.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

It’s also inherently strange to assume criticism of Israel automatically makes someone supportive or sympathetic of Hamas.

Its the same on the football side. The thinking is so black and white. They hate a player, so can't comment when they contribute positively.

 

[David O'Day]

The population of Gaza is 2m, so what’s your point?


Yep but not in the way you think.



So Hamas militants invade Israel, rejoice in specifically killing Jews and that is not genocidal? Using the definitions you and others rely on for your own purposes, scale isn’t actually important. It’s the intent behind it and Hamas’ intentions were v clear.

Using your logic, at what point did the IDF move from legitimate military response to terrorism to then genocide? From an earlier post you seem to suggest it was genocide from Day 1.



It’s inherently strange to see several left wing posters who regularly comment about fascists in the UK, USA and Europe. Come to ignore that Hamas’ offshoots that is deeply antisemitic with links to al-Husayni, who met with Hitler and was a Nazi sympathiser. Again, their charters were amended in 2017 that all but changed references of ‘Jews’ to ‘Zionist’. There’s an unbelievably naive view of Hamas in the West.

Did they intend to kill all or most of the population? No, why can't you understand what Genocide actually means

Once again, who has supported Hamas?

 

[David O'Day]

It’s also inherently strange to assume criticism of Israel automatically makes someone supportive or sympathetic of Hamas.

It's almost as if he has decided the position he should take but hasn't actually taken the time to find out why.

 

[Grendel]

Here we go

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

My point isn't convenient for you, but it is relevant. There has been an effort by some, including Keir Starmer who is apparently always right on issues pertaining to Israel but nothing else, to portray this as an anti-Semitic act.

Jewish Aston Villa fans can and will go to this game, despite being surrounded by all these nasty Muslims. They will both go and support the same club in a reflection of the multicultural city that the club is based in.

I don't know or particularly care much about Ajax.

You can't argue that I am finding your argument inconvenient and then say you don't know or care about Ajax. You are just showing yourself up as someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

This multi-cultural success story as you paint it, is showing some big cracks. This whole discussion point and what has happened with the football is real-time indicator of it, and it has gone well over your head.

 

[Dougin]

Weird? Fuck me, have you seen what your nonce boy hero looks like.

Anyone who brainlessly cheers on a sex pest nonce is clearly a bit odd too. And I'm afraid you're the one who hates people.... Ooh the left, ooh immigrants, ooh brown people, ooh people with strange hair. They're all so horrible. Waah, can't we lock them all up.

What's also weird is suddenly faking an interest in Gaza, when for the last two years you couldn't give a shit about it. Or is that just odiously hypocritical. Probably both.

Anyway, my dad had a good word for blokes like you. Gobshite. The approximate definition is completely full of shit, not worth listening too. Good advice.

I’m glad you got that off your chest. Now get yourself back down the job centre.

 

[David O'Day]

I’m glad you got that off your chest. Now get yourself back down the job centre.

Hi Greggs

 

[PVA]

I suspect the decision will be overturned, and it will kick off.

Then there will be an awful lot of finger pointing about who's to blame.

Now the decision has been made, they should stick with it. To overturn it now just adds a whole other layer of complexity to it and makes an already bad situation potentially worse.

Obviously I hope that if it is overturned, it goes ahead without incident.

 

[Dougin]

This is what multiculturalism brings you. British MP’s who only fight for the cause of “her” people.

The end is nigh.

 

[Dougin]

I suspect the decision will be overturned, and it will kick off.

Then there will be an awful lot of finger pointing about who's to blame.

Now the decision has been made, they should stick with it. To overturn it now just adds a whole other layer of complexity to it and makes an already bad situation potentially worse.

Obviously I hope that if it is overturned, it goes ahead without incident.

It should be overturned and as many police put in as necessary. If anyone causes trouble, they should be put straight in jail and fast tracked to court.

 

[David O'Day]

I suspect the decision will be overturned, and it will kick off.

Then there will be an awful lot of finger pointing about who's to blame.

Now the decision has been made, they should stick with it. To overturn it now just adds a whole other layer of complexity to it and makes an already bad situation potentially worse.

Obviously I hope that if it is overturned, it goes ahead without incident.

If it is overturned, maybe they could "bubble" match the game like they do for games like Cardiff vs Swansea.

Only allow them to use certain flights in and bus straight o ground and back again to airport.

It can't be accused of being "Anti Semtic" as this is how UK police deal with high risk league fixtures.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Who on here has expressed support for Hamas?

It’s also inherently strange to assume criticism of Israel automatically makes someone supportive or sympathetic of Hamas.

You have to understand Hamas to understand Israel’s response. Frankly, Hamas is a genocidal death cult who do not want to coexist with Israel and changing its charter shouldn’t kid anyone.

With that in mind, how does Israel conduct war with an entity that wants to Palestine to be ‘free from the river the sea’ (to clarify, means no Israel) and embeds itself deliberately in civilian infrastructure.

If there was a defined ‘front’ like in Ukraine, then the arguments make sense if Israel was targeting non-combatant areas. As it happens, Hamas has deliberately used the Palestinians as human shields.

Every war has significantly more civilian casualties than combatants therefore, if that’s the new baseline… Every war is by definition genocidal.

Did they intend to kill all or most of the population? No, why can't you understand what Genocide actually means

Once again, who has supported Hamas?

If it’s all the population that needs to be targeted, then Israel wouldn’t be guilty genocide. There 2m inhabitants in Gaza and 70k deaths - 3.5%. If Hamas had Israel’s military capabilities, they would be more than capable of genocide. They killed the numbers they did using v rudimentary military means and a lack of coordination with entities such as Hezbollah.

Is it intent that matters or scale? You seem to say scale whereas the definition of genocide being used by the UN specifically outlines intent. Likewise, before the conflict Gaza’s population was growing.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

I suspect the decision will be overturned, and it will kick off.

Then there will be an awful lot of finger pointing about who's to blame.

Now the decision has been made, they should stick with it. To overturn it now just adds a whole other layer of complexity to it and makes an already bad situation potentially worse.

Obviously I hope that if it is overturned, it goes ahead without incident.

You're probably right, it's to much in the mainstream now to reverse and would make it worse if they did

 

[TomRad85]

Here we go

Like I said, a decision popular with Islamists and fringe left wingers. No one else.

 

[David O'Day]

You have to understand Hamas to understand Israel’s response. Frankly, Hamas is a genocidal death cult who do not want to coexist with Israel and changing its charter shouldn’t kid anyone.

With that in mind, how does Israel conduct war with an entity that wants to Palestine to be ‘free from the river the sea’ (to clarify, means no Israel) and embeds itself deliberately in civilian infrastructure.

If there was a defined ‘front’ like in Ukraine, then the arguments make sense if Israel was targeting non-combatant areas. As it happens, Hamas has deliberately used the Palestinians as human shields.

Every war has significantly more civilian casualties than combatants therefore, if that’s the new baseline… Every war is by definition genocidal.


If it’s all the population that needs to be targeted, then Israel wouldn’t be guilty genocide. There 2m inhabitants in Gaza and 70k deaths - 3.5%. If Hamas had Israel’s military capabilities, they would be more than capable of genocide. They killed the numbers they did using v rudimentary military means and a lack of coordination with entities such as Hezbollah.

Is it intent that matters or scale? You seem to say scale whereas the definition of genocide being used by the UN specifically outlines intent. Likewise, before the conflict Gaza’s population was growing.

It's the definition mate, that is what matters and if an act falls under that. Genocide is something there is a set international definition of.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

If it is overturned, maybe they could "bubble" match the game like they do for games like Cardiff vs Swansea.

Only allow them to use certain flights in and bus straight o ground and back again to airport.

It can't be accused of being "Anti Semtic" as this is how UK police deal with high risk league fixtures.

A flight from BHX to Norwich or Shrewsbury. There fans could live all over the place

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You have to understand Hamas to understand Israel’s response. Frankly, Hamas is a genocidal death cult who do not want to coexist with Israel and changing its charter shouldn’t kid anyone.

With that in mind, how does Israel conduct war with an entity that wants to Palestine to be ‘free from the river the sea’ (to clarify, means no Israel) and embeds itself deliberately in civilian infrastructure.

If there was a defined ‘front’ like in Ukraine, then the arguments make sense if Israel was targeting non-combatant areas. As it happens, Hamas has deliberately used the Palestinians as human shields.

Every war has significantly more civilian casualties than combatants therefore, if that’s the new baseline… Every war is by definition genocidal.


If it’s all the population that needs to be targeted, then Israel wouldn’t be guilty genocide. There 2m inhabitants in Gaza and 70k deaths - 3.5%. If Hamas had Israel’s military capabilities, they would be more than capable of genocide. They killed the numbers they did using v rudimentary military means and a lack of coordination with entities such as Hezbollah.

Is it intent that matters or scale? You seem to say scale whereas the definition of genocide being used by the UN specifically outlines intent. Likewise, before the conflict Gaza’s population was growing.

You're just acting as an apologist for Israel's crimes at this point. Do you think they have done anything wrong at least?

 

[David O'Day]

A flight from BHX to Norwich or Shrewsbury. There fans could live all over the place

And? If you are a Swansea fan who wants to go to your game away at Cardiff you have to go to Swansea first even if you live in say London.

Unlucky

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

It's the definition mate, that is what matters and if an act falls under that. Genocide is something there is a set international definition of.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Then why do you struggle to apply the same definition to Hamas actions.

More specifically, at what point does war become genocide? You said earlier ‘after the genocide begun’. Which was when? The moment Israel entered Gaza or was there a specific event where the line was crossed?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

You're just acting as an apologist for Israel's crimes at this point. Do you think they have done anything wrong at least?

This is childish. I acknowledge that there is extreme difficulty in waging war against an entity like Hamas in densely populated areas.

As a starting point, Israel’s retaliation against a ‘vile terrorist act’ was justified to oust Hamas and retrieve the hostages. I’m curious whether you think retaliation at any point was justified and if it was, at what point did it become genocide.

Following the logic you and others put forward, it would seem that any and all wars would tantamount to genocide. Which is clearly not a tenable view to hold.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You can't argue that I am finding your argument inconvenient and then say you don't know or care about Ajax. You are just showing yourself up as someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

This multi-cultural success story as you paint it, is showing some big cracks. This whole discussion point and what has happened with the football is real-time indicator of it, and it has gone well over your head.

I concede that I don't know much about Ajax, and if this were the Ajax fan forum I'd look pretty silly.

You are another who just doesn't like Muslims, and have at least said as much. You and others continue to ignore that Jews haven't actually been barred from attending-it's inconvenient to accept that.

Longer ago English clubs were barred from European competitions because of a hooliganism problem. Maybe some people have forgotten that.

 

[David O'Day]

Then why do you struggle to apply the same definition to Hamas actions.

More specifically, at what point does war become genocide? You said earlier ‘after the genocide begun’. Which was when? The moment Israel entered Gaza or was there a specific event where the line was crossed?

I am applying the same definition and we have clearly explained to you the difference in the actions as compared the the internationally agreed definition.

When does war become genocide? Why are you throwing pretty shite straw men into this now?

You compared the actions of Hamas on the 7th of October 2023 with the actions of Israel in all the days that have passed. We are talking about your set of date parameters here.

Are you trying to change the parameters now?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This is childish. I acknowledge that there is extreme difficulty in waging war against an entity like Hamas in densely populated areas.

Civilians have been invited to queue up to receive aid and then used as shooting practice. Israeli ministers have openly said that they want to bomb the aid supplies and deny any food or medical relief going in. There have been debates in the Knesset about whether or not IDF soldiers should be allowed to rape prisoners; with outrage expressed at the idea that it might not be allowed.

Why oh why is it so hard for you to call it what it is?

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

And? If you are a Swansea fan who wants to go to your game away at Cardiff you have to go to Swansea first even if you live in say London.

Unlucky

So someone who lives in the UK has to fly back to Israel then get a fight back. Oh dear Dave, it's Friday the day your underpants visit the laundrette, I'll let you off

 

[chiefdave]

On another note the government has announced it has ended its intelligence gathering flights from the UK over Gaza on behalf of the Israeli military.

You may recall discussion on the intelligence gathering flights. They are the ones that Palestine Action claimed were departing from the UK which the government flat out denied so slightly odd for them to now confirm they were taking place.

In other Palestine Action related news the defence secretary, John Healey, when pushed in parliament for an itemised breakdown of the claim that PA caused millions in damage, has been forced to admit the MoD have no clue what the costs are as they have not yet been assessed.

 

[David O'Day]

So someone who lives in the UK has to fly back to Israel then get a fight back. Oh dear Dave, it's Friday the day your underpants visit the laundrette, I'll let you off

Ok, they have to get to B'ham airport and then get on the same buses to the ground

Same as a Swansea fan living in London has to travel past Cardiff to go to the Swansea ground to get on a bus to the Game and is then bussed back.

Better luck next time fella.

 

[chiefdave]

So someone who lives in the UK has to fly back to Israel then get a fight back. Oh dear Dave, it's Friday the day your underpants visit the laundrette, I'll let you off

This is exactly the logic that has been applied to other games. When I lived near Fratton Park they made Southampton supporters who lived in Pompey travel back to Southampton to then travel in a 'bubble' to the game. Without doing that there was no way for them to obtain tickets.

It may seem crazy but it is a tactic that is already in use to prevent trouble.

 

[Otis]

Here we go

Her statement doesn't match the article.