Israel - Palestinian Conflict (14 Viewers)

[Gynnsthetonic]

I don't agree with them not being allowed to go to the game. Jews haven't been banned from going, they just literally haven't.

You and Dom have posted more about my career choices than I ever have, to be clear. (I was a teacher really I was )

I doubt it

 

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[Mucca Mad Boys]

Because, as I said, for it to be genocide it needs to be with the intention of destroying all or a substantial part of, a group. And I really don't think that was their aim that day, I don't know how anyone could argue it was.

Repeating yourself doesn’t make it right. If Hamas actions weren’t with the “intention of destroying all or a substantial part of, a group”, what was its intention?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

From my POV, the pot is calling the kettle black. With respect, I think my views are more in line with majority opinion than yourself.

My views on this subject are in line with the UN. To go against them and try to argue that their report on it is wrong is, well, a take.

The claim that Israel haven't attempted genocide but Hamas did on October 7th is up there with Grendel claiming that Russia was provoked into attacking Ukraine. It's something you'd expect from an Israeli minister, not an impartial observer.

 

[Sick Boy]

Repeating yourself doesn’t make it right. If Hamas actions weren’t with the “intention of destroying all or a substantial part of, a group”, what was its intention?

Isn't the population of Israel around 9 million?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I see we have a situation where football fans have been banned because of a dangerous and intolerant set of people living in Birmingham who will likely attack them if they attend the game. That's what this comes down to. What happened in Amsterdam is a good indicator of what could take place yes, but again, some of you talking about this on here have no idea what actually happened. Even sources such as the Guardian are posting a timeline which deliberately only rewinds to to a certain point, ignoring the tensions, threats, and incidents that were building up for days in advance and what led to the retaliations (which I don't agree with either).

Whilst I have no faith in Israeli people to behave abroad (because they regularly cause trouble wherever they go), there are a lot of people, more than most think on here, that will want to attack them when they get here. In Amsterdam there were calls online for a 'jew hunt', and 'all taxi drivers to mobilize'. This community of people also live in the UK and will band together. For reasons we have already covered, many of you give them a free pass.

We are seemingly now instead talking about twitter rabbit holes, politically incorrect definitions, and a set of historical analogies of the war. The relevant problem in this case we are discussing now is that we have an increasingly hostile Muslim population in the UK that is becoming more influential in these kind of decisions.

 

[David O'Day]

Isn't the population of Israel around 9 million?

almost 10m according to world bank figures

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I doubt it

You and him are the only ones bringing it up out of nowhere, and it wasn't even true in the first place. It's just weird.

 

[David O'Day]

Repeating yourself doesn’t make it right. If Hamas actions weren’t with the “intention of destroying all or a substantial part of, a group”, what was its intention?

there are almost 10m people in Israel, did they intend that day to kill most or all of them that day?

No, it was a vile terrorist attack

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I see we have a situation where football fans have been banned because of a dangerous and intolerant set of people living in Birmingham who will likely attack them if they attend the game. That's what this comes down to. What happened in Amsterdam is a good indicator of what could take place yes, but again, some of you talking about this on here have no idea what actually happened. Even sources such as the Guardian are posting a timeline which deliberately only rewinds to to a certain point, ignoring the tensions, threats, and incidents that were building up for days in advance and what led to the retaliations (which I don't agree with either).

Whilst I have no faith in Israeli people to behave abroad (because they regularly cause trouble wherever they go), there are a lot of people, more than most think on here, that will want to attack them when they get here. In Amsterdam there were calls online for a 'jew hunt', and 'all taxi drivers to mobilize'. This community of people also live in the UK and will band together. For reasons we have already covered, many of you give them a free pass.

We are seemingly now instead talking about twitter rabbit holes, politically incorrect definitions, and a set of historical analogies of the war. The relevant problem in this case we are discussing now is that we have an increasingly hostile Muslim population in the UK that is becoming more influential in these kind of decisions.

People not being allowed to go to a football game is being treated with much more outrage than the attempted genocide of a few million others. It's pretty revealing.

 

[Sick Boy]

People not being allowed to go to a football game is being treated with much more outrage than the attempted genocide of a few million others. It's pretty revealing.

The mask finally slipped today at least.

 

[PVA]

Repeating yourself doesn’t make it right. If Hamas actions weren’t with the “intention of destroying all or a substantial part of, a group”, what was its intention?

I repeated it because you ignored it.

How many million were they intending to kill that day then?

What they did was horrific beyond words, but it was not genocide.

It's staggering you claim that was genocidal, but Israels actions are not.

 

[Grendel]

Repeating yourself doesn’t make it right. If Hamas actions weren’t with the “intention of destroying all or a substantial part of, a group”, what was its intention?

Hardly to join in the singing and dancing - I also do not think given their ideology is genocide against a specific Group it was indiscriminate either. The mental gymnastics people go through to defend things is incredible.

 

[Grendel]

I repeated it because you ignored it.

How many million were they intending to kill that day then?

What they did was horrific beyond words, but it was not genocide.

It's staggering you claim that was genocidal, but Israels actions are not.

So you have to intend to kill millions on a day to meet the definition?

 

[PVA]

So you have to intend to kill millions on a day to meet the definition?

Well if you are only referring to one particular incident on one particular day, which he is, then yes. That's the definition.

 

[Grendel]

Well if you are only referring to one particular incident on one particular day, which he is, then yes. That's the definition.

What is the specified aim of Hamas?

 

[David O'Day]

Hardly to join in the singing and dancing - I also do not think given their ideology is genocide against a specific Group it was indiscriminate either. The mental gymnastics people go through to defend things is incredible.

Who has defended anything? What people are saying is that according to the clearly defined definition of "Genocide" this wasn't it.

The question also isn't "What would Hamas do if it had access to weaponry like the Israeli army does?", it was compared to the definition of "Genocide" was the 7th October attacks an attempt at Genocide?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The mask finally slipped today at least.

There's some people on here who just don't like Muslims or have a separate problem with Islam. At least one of them was honest enough to simply say 'ban Muslims' though and another doesn't see what Israel have done wrong in Gaza. Longer ago another said that Iranian men should be kicked out of the country even if they haven't done anything wrong.

Crimes against unpopular people are still crimes. I wouldn't choose to live in an Islamic theocracy, I don't believe in God and I'd probably be executed for expressing my views in certain Islamic countries. Doesn't mean that I'm not repulsed by what Israel have done in Gaza.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

People not being allowed to go to a football game is being treated with much more outrage than the attempted genocide of a few million others. It's pretty revealing.

Not it isn't. What has been going on over there is horrendous, but it has been going on for some time and despite some people's best attempts to say otherwise, has little to do with the UK.

This story is something that actually does (for once) have an effect on our country, because the football match is being played here.

It is getting a retaliation because once again the left cannot find the sack to criticise the Muslim population, who anyone with common sense knows, their perceived actions are dictating this policy. We are now also talking about just about everything else possible so we can get out of discussing it, as usual, including accusing people of not caring about the war. It is clear a corner has been backed into at this point.

 

[PVA]

What is the specified aim of Hamas?

That is irrelevant when someone is saying 'The 7th October attack was genocidal'. It wasn't. regardless of Hamas' aims.

 

[David O'Day]

That is irrelevant when someone is saying 'The 7th October attack was genocidal'. It wasn't. regardless of Hamas' aims.

As I said the question asked today was not "what would Hamas do if it could?", instead it was "what did Hamas actually do?".

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not it isn't. What has been going on over there is horrendous, but it has been going on for some time and despite some people's best attempts to say otherwise, has little to do with the UK.

This story is something that actually does (for once) have an effect on our country, because the football match is being played here.

It is getting a retaliation because once again the left cannot find the sack to criticise the Muslim population, who anyone with common sense knows, their perceived actions are dictating this policy. We are now also talking about just about everything else possible so we can get out of discussing it, as usual, including accusing people of not caring about the war. It is clear a corner has been backed into at this point.

Have Jewish Aston Villa fans been advised not to go to the match?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

The mask finally slipped today at least.

Wish we would resign Sheaf so he would just go back to spouting crap about him

 

[Grendel]

I wonder if the game was against Bournmouth there would be the same issue?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The mental gymnastics people go through to defend things is incredible.

Let's examine your comments on Putin's invasion of Ukraine

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Have Jewish Aston Villa fans been advised not to go to the match?

You do know the history of Ajax, their fans, and religion don't you?

Your point isn't relevant.

 

[David O'Day]

I wonder if the game was against Bournmouth there would be the same issue?

That isn't the gotcha you think it is, everyone will admit that B'ham having a large Muslim population is part the decision as they are worried that the away teams fans will try and wind up and get at the local muslim population.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Let's examine your comments on Putin's invasion of Ukraine

Or his slipperiness when it comes to condemning Israel's attack on Gaza

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You do know the history of Ajax, their fans, and religion don't you?

Your point isn't relevant.

My point isn't convenient for you, but it is relevant. There has been an effort by some, including Keir Starmer who is apparently always right on issues pertaining to Israel but nothing else, to portray this as an anti-Semitic act.

Jewish Aston Villa fans can and will go to this game, despite being surrounded by all these nasty Muslims. They will both go and support the same club in a reflection of the multicultural city that the club is based in.

I don't know or particularly care much about Ajax.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Or his slipperiness when it comes to condemning Israel's attack on Gaza

When Muslims are the victims anything goes.

 

[Marty]

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

There's some people on here who just don't like Muslims or have a separate problem with Islam. At least one of them was honest enough to simply say 'ban Muslims' though and another doesn't see what Israel have done wrong in Gaza. Longer ago another said that Iranian men should be kicked out of the country even if they haven't done anything wrong.

Crimes against unpopular people are still crimes. I wouldn't choose to live in an Islamic theocracy, I don't believe in God and I'd probably be executed for expressing my views in certain Islamic countries. Doesn't mean that I'm not repulsed by what Israel have done in Gaza.

I've been to Countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, going to Morocco on Sunday. Malaysians and Indonesian people are lovely and wouldn't hurt a soul, I work with Muslims through work who I can have a laugh and joke with but there is an Islam ideology among some cultures that detest the west, but they all want to live here

 

[Otis]

I see we have a situation where football fans have been banned because of a dangerous and intolerant set of people living in Birmingham who will likely attack them if they attend the game. That's what this comes down to. What happened in Amsterdam is a good indicator of what could take place yes, but again, some of you talking about this on here have no idea what actually happened. Even sources such as the Guardian are posting a timeline which deliberately only rewinds to to a certain point, ignoring the tensions, threats, and incidents that were building up for days in advance and what led to the retaliations (which I don't agree with either).

Whilst I have no faith in Israeli people to behave abroad (because they regularly cause trouble wherever they go), there are a lot of people, more than most think on here, that will want to attack them when they get here. In Amsterdam there were calls online for a 'jew hunt', and 'all taxi drivers to mobilize'. This community of people also live in the UK and will band together. For reasons we have already covered, many of you give them a free pass.

We are seemingly now instead talking about twitter rabbit holes, politically incorrect definitions, and a set of historical analogies of the war. The relevant problem in this case we are discussing now is that we have an increasingly hostile Muslim population in the UK that is becoming more influential in these kind of decisions.

We are definitely winding Muslims up right now, so I would agree that there is more hostility.

They have been demonised. Jews have too, mind

It's bit of a tinderbox at the moment.

 

[PVA]

When Muslims are the victims anything goes.

He's been clear in the past he has no issue with innocent Muslims being bombed just because he doesn't agree with their views.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

When Muslims are the victims anything goes.

There are Christians that live in Gaza

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I've been to Countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, going to Morocco on Sunday. Malaysians and Indonesian people are lovely and wouldn't hurt a soul, I work with Muslims through work who I can have a laugh and joke with but there is an Islam ideology among some cultures that detest the west, but they all want to live here

No, it's an anti-Western way of thinking that isn't necessarily to do with Islam. Unless Russia are now an Islamic nation too.