Israel - Palestinian Conflict (2 Viewers)

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skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
fatso said:
I think it's safe to say that Israel isn't going to listen to the International community.

And what is worse, worying that an empty Gaza might become occupied by Israel, or standing by and doing nothing while innocents are massacred?
How fucked up is that?

And if you want to play clever politics, if Israel where to move in and ocupy an empty Gaza, then it no longer becomes about crushing Hamas, and becomes purely a land grab, which would be seen as a war crime by the international community.
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Israel will soon listen if we threaten an arms embargo. Their military can’t function effectively without Western support in arms and possibly more importantly spares for hardware. Israel’s enemies and neighbours are also pretty much all Russian allies so it’s not like Isreal really has options. We have more influence on Israel than western governments are willing to let on or use.
 
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I think most people accept what Israel are doing is wrong, I certainly think they have taken it too far, but I'm getting a feeling more and more like there is a lot of sympathy for Hamas. - That isn't just on here, in the real world too.

It's possible to dislike both of them right? That's certainly my stand point, but I'm not really seeing that going on and feel increasingly like the only side people seem to be denouncing is Israel (the odd troll aside). Say something bad about Palestine or Hamas and it ends up in arguments. Why is that? Closet sympathy with Hamas coming out? Secret hatred for Israel given an excuse? Or just seen enough of the retaliation to think it's gone too far and the festival attacks are more or less irrelevant in comparison now?

Very curious to see what people think. Hopefully this post isn't shot down.
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You may be correct
I don’t see that in any number but stats show massive increases in attacks on Jews and Muslims in the uk which says something about the extreme ends
The large majority rightly condemns Hamas actions on the 7/10 but understands this didn’t happen in a vacuum
They also condemn the Israeli state for their actions in the actions they are taking leading directly to over a million people being displaced and tens of thousands of civilians being killed.
They also worry that the consequence of this doesn’t sit just in Israel and Palestine as we already aware especially where populist leaders don’t understand their statesmanlike roles to seek to bring the conflict to a just conclusion rather than use it for political gain
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
fatso said:
Genuine question here.

While I'm sure all right minded human beings deplore the mass killing of innocent people wherever they may be, and whoever they are,

What I don't understand is why fellow neighbouring Muslim countries such as Egypt, Jordan, Iraq and Turkey don't open their borders and allow those who have been displaced to be temporarily relocated to avoid the bloodshed.
(Like we and other countries did for the Ukranians)

I'm genuinely perplexed.
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A) It wouldn't be temporary. B) It's not that easy to get out. It's not that long ago they opened a crossing to Egypt and the Israelis bombed it, though the general point, could Palestine's Muslim neighbours be doing more, I'd say they could.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
First strike to the Houti's who could have predicted that, so, expansion of a conflict nobody wants?
Nobody with eyesight anyway!
It's okay they're not British!
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
wingy said:
First strike to the Houti's who could have predicted that, so, expansion of a conflict nobody wants?
Nobody with eyesight anyway!
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The Saudis have refused to let us and the Yanks use use their airspace to attack the Houthis even though they've been using their own airspace and UK supplied weapons to attack the Hothi for years.
I'm sure there are people who have a grasp of geopolitics but fuck me, it's confusing
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
Shameful of the BBC to produce a piece aiming to condone it.
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Bizarre that anyone can read it that way….

‘There is no evidence that Palestinians want to leave their homeland - although many may now dream of escaping temporarily, to save their lives. For most Palestinians, there is no way out. The borders are tightly controlled by Israel and Egypt, and no foreign countries have offered refuge.’

‘Gaza is far from empty, but much of it has been erased after almost six months of relentless Israeli bombardment

It is the "greatest open-air graveyard" in the world, in the words of the EU's foreign policy chief, Josep Borrell.’

This is the problem these days, you can’t have a balanced independent piece without one side wanting a more rabid, emotive article. Worrying.

In terms of the article itself it helps people to understand how some Israelis are looking at the situation which is scary !
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
Bizarre that anyone can read it that way….

‘There is no evidence that Palestinians want to leave their homeland - although many may now dream of escaping temporarily, to save their lives. For most Palestinians, there is no way out. The borders are tightly controlled by Israel and Egypt, and no foreign countries have offered refuge.’

‘Gaza is far from empty, but much of it has been erased after almost six months of relentless Israeli bombardment

It is the "greatest open-air graveyard" in the world, in the words of the EU's foreign policy chief, Josep Borrell.’

This is the problem these days, you can’t have a balanced independent piece without one side wanting a more rabid, emotive article. Worrying.

In terms of the article itself it helps people to understand how some Israelis are looking at the situation which is scary !
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I personally feel that when you talk about an individuals opinion in a piece like that then you are adding the human element in condoning it.


"I have friends in Tel Aviv," she says, "so they say, 'Don't forget to keep for me a plot near the coast in Gaza,' because it's a beautiful, beautiful coast, beautiful golden sand".
She tells them the plots on the coast are already booked

Pieces of the report like above make me feel very uncomfortable (as well as it being insensitive given how many people have died there)
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
I personally feel that when you talk about an individuals opinion in a piece like that then you are adding the human element in condoning it.


"I have friends in Tel Aviv," she says, "so they say, 'Don't forget to keep for me a plot near the coast in Gaza,' because it's a beautiful, beautiful coast, beautiful golden sand".
She tells them the plots on the coast are already booked

Pieces of the report like above make me feel very uncomfortable (as well as it being insensitive given how many people have died there)
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I think it’s supposed to make you feel uncomfortable! Do you think the piece would have been improved by a footnote saying “btw ethnic cleansing is bad”?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
I personally feel that when you talk about an individuals opinion in a piece like that then you are adding the human element in condoning it.


"I have friends in Tel Aviv," she says, "so they say, 'Don't forget to keep for me a plot near the coast in Gaza,' because it's a beautiful, beautiful coast, beautiful golden sand".
She tells them the plots on the coast are already booked

Pieces of the report like above make me feel very uncomfortable (as well as it being insensitive given how many people have died there)
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I don’t see the piece as condoning it at all.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Relevant joke

Three countries compete to find a fox on a mountain, China, the U.S., and Russia.

China goes first. They send in two divisions of the Red Army who sweep the countryside. Two weeks later, the Chinese announce, hey, we caught the fox!

America goes second.

They divert a spy satellite, find the spider hole the fox is hiding in on thermals, fix its location with a spy plane, then send in Seal Team Six to extract the fox. Two days later, the Pentagon announces, ok guys, we beat China, we caught the fox!

Russia goes last.

Russia sends in their secret police who go into the woods near the mountain and emerges two hour later with a dog painted red, and they're beating the tar out of it with a stick.

"OK, OK, fine! I'm a fox!" says the dog.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
I personally feel that when you talk about an individuals opinion in a piece like that then you are adding the human element in condoning it.


"I have friends in Tel Aviv," she says, "so they say, 'Don't forget to keep for me a plot near the coast in Gaza,' because it's a beautiful, beautiful coast, beautiful golden sand".
She tells them the plots on the coast are already booked
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But that’s showing us the reality of the situation and it’s pretty sickening when shown through the voice of someone who really doesn’t see a problem with what they’re doing.

That’s what I want to read but unfortunately we have very little of this type of article any more. There’s always an angle to reporting these days, everything’s an opinion piece, even when it’s not meant to be. This was laying out the situation. It didn’t need to tell me that the Israeli woman was wrong and is taking advantage of a horrible, tragic situation.

This type of article will do far more damage to the Israeli position/cause in most peoples eyes than a one sided anti Israel rant. I personally always sympathised with them defending themselves from Hamas but the excessive force aimed at the Palestinian civilians and then this, it’s disgusting but also scary that some Israelis just don’t see what the problem is. That’s why this type of article is important
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
The writer of the article has also been criticised numerous times in her career for an alleged bias against Israel in her reporting.

I say that not to give those claims any credence or to suggest she actually is biased. But this is clearly not a fanatical pro-settler propagandist we’re dealing with here.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Tens of thousands protesting around Israel against Netanyahu over the weekend. If his aim was to win support ahead of the next elections he seems to have failed.
 
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