Israel - Palestinian Conflict (16 Viewers)

jimmyhillsfanclub · Mar 1, 2024

clint van damme said:
Just Googled it, said 'they'll be no Israeli flags on the CL trophy' when Spurs lost to Liverpool.

....Although (and I'll probably regret this) in his defence, that tweet was made as a direct reference to the many spurs fans who were flying the Israeli flag at that final......

Galloway believes Israel is a racist state and I agree with him on that.

Interestingly Spurs have recently banned said racist states flag from their stadium as its seen as inflammatory...... someone should tell the cunts in Government so they don't project it all over our houses of parliament again.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Mar 1, 2024

As for Galloway, Yep hes a grifter and some of his views are unpalatable, but hes certainly a disruptor and our political system & all its main parties need disrupting.

Kick over the statues!

Grendel · Mar 1, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I mean Galloway almost certainly won’t be re-elected. At least I hope not.

He might. He’s a fairly charismatic character and will launch his party with a stream of candidates across Muslim dominated labour constituencies.

hamertime · Mar 1, 2024

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
....Although (and I'll probably regret this) in his defence, that tweet was made as a direct reference to the many spurs fans who were flying the Israeli flag at that final......

Galloway believes Israel is a racist state and I agree with him on that.

Interestingly Spurs have recently banned said racist states flag from their stadium as its seen as inflammatory...... someone should tell the cunts in Government so they don't project it all over our houses of parliament again.

Where is your proof Israel is racist?

jimmyhillsfanclub · Mar 1, 2024

hamertime said:
Where is your proof Israel is racist?

How about nearly everything they've done since 1967......

wingy · Mar 1, 2024

shmmeee said:
Ive not seen that. Just reading the reports it says it was the “they knew” theory (which wasn’t uncommon as you say) and then after being called out for that a recording saying he’s getting shot from various people including the Jewish community. Again seems right.

But when you’re choosing George bloody Galloway instead the bar should really be a little higher. Which is I imagine why initially Labour didn’t withdraw support.

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
How about nearly everything they've done since 1967......

Let's not forget Terrorism/terrorist state 1947?

hamertime · Mar 1, 2024

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
How about nearly everything they've done since 1967......

Trying to find a place in the world where you can exist where everyone previously and everyone currently around you want you wiped of the face of the Earth doesn’t mean it’s racism.

I would say they are fighting for survival constantly. Is it right how they have acted no but I can understand why.

The most racist countries for me are the Muslim ones, a Muslim dad isn’t going to let his daughter marry a white Christian boy is he. What does that tell you.

fernandopartridge · Mar 1, 2024

hamertime said:
Trying to find a place in the world where you can exist where everyone previously and everyone currently around you want you wiped of the face of the Earth doesn’t mean it’s racism.

I would say they are fighting for survival constantly. Is it right how they have acted no but I can understand why.

The most racist countries for me are the Muslim ones, a Muslim dad isn’t going to let his daughter marry a white Christian boy is he. What does that tell you.

interfaith marriage isn't legally recognised in Israel

wingy · Mar 1, 2024

hamertime said:
Trying to find a place in the world where you can exist where everyone previously and everyone currently around you want you wiped of the face of the Earth doesn’t mean it’s racism.

I would say they are fighting for survival constantly. Is it right how they have acted no but I can understand why.

The most racist countries for me are the Muslim ones, a Muslim dad isn’t going to let his daughter marry a white Christian boy is he. What does that tell you.

Are you sure, certainly have their conversions?

shmmeee · Mar 1, 2024

Did hamertime get dumped by a Muslim girl?

clint van damme · Mar 1, 2024

shmmeee said:
Did hamertime get dumped by a Muslim girl?

Split up by her dad!

clint van damme · Mar 1, 2024

hamertime said:
Trying to find a place in the world where you can exist where everyone previously and everyone currently around you want you wiped of the face of the Earth doesn’t mean it’s racism.

I would say they are fighting for survival constantly. Is it right how they have acted no but I can understand why.

The most racist countries for me are the Muslim ones, a Muslim dad isn’t going to let his daughter marry a white Christian boy is he. What does that tell you.

Grade A drivel

hamertime · Mar 1, 2024

clint van damme said:
Grade A drivel

That’s what people revert to when they haven’t really got an argument against what has been said.

wingy · Mar 1, 2024

hamertime said:
That’s what people revert to when they haven’t really got an argument against what has been said.

It's not what's being said but what's being done!

wingy · Mar 1, 2024

So strange isn't it to allow on this occasion 30 trucks ofaid not supplied by the UN to the North of the strip, the nature of it being paused /delayed sporadic with Isreal the only safety provision, cant possibly be the PA or hamas as they're out of there but the deaths are not their responsibility and besides they dont believe the numbers as they're provided by well Palestinians!

skybluetony176 · Mar 1, 2024

I think it’s a bit of a sweeping statement to say Israel is a racist state. You can certainly say it about Netanyahu, his party and his electorate but Israel is a complicated country. They never have an outright majority at an election for starters so you can’t equate Israel as a whole to Netanyahu and his followers. Even within the Jewish faith you have lots of different types of Jews. Take Hasidic Jews for instance, the original anti Zionist who see the creation of a Jewish state as a direct threat to god, Hasidic Jews are also not required to do national service and key Hasidic Jews make up the vast majority of Jews protesting in Israel against the Israeli government and the war in Gaza.

There also the issue that Jews around the world who have no links to Israel still get lumped in with the actions of Israel like no other faith does with a state of its faith with the possible exception of Islam, so to label a whole country racist and allow that opinion to become mainstream is dangerous for Jews around the world and we’re witnessing that in the UK with the rise in cases of anti semitism.

SBT · Mar 1, 2024

hamertime said:
The most racist countries for me are the Muslim ones, a Muslim dad isn’t going to let his daughter marry a white Christian boy is he.

They did in my experience. Maybe she just wasn’t that into you?

wingy · Mar 1, 2024

Yes we've seen the treatment they get, sidelined mostly wth the odd end of the rifle butt, it's nothing more than a piece of real estate to grab, any other explanation is absurd, who funds hamas I'm reading iran giving the weapons, monetary much murkier!

SBAndy · Mar 1, 2024

fernandopartridge said:
Agree with you, the theory was widely reported by all of the mainstream media as well so Labour could have defended it better imo.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Without digging up old ground, I think had they done that it’d have opened up an easy attack line.

fernandopartridge · Mar 1, 2024

SBAndy said:
Without digging up old ground, I think had they done that it’d have opened up an easy attack line.

Well they've lost the seat now anyway and the attack lines were opened up regardless

CCFCSteve · Mar 1, 2024

skybluetony176 said:
I think it’s a bit of a sweeping statement to say Israel is a racist state. You can certainly say it about Netanyahu, his party and his electorate but Israel is a complicated country. They never have an outright majority at an election for starters so you can’t equate Israel as a whole to Netanyahu and his followers. Even within the Jewish faith you have lots of different types of Jews. Take Hasidic Jews for instance, the original anti Zionist who see the creation of a Jewish state as a direct threat to god, Hasidic Jews are also not required to do national service and key Hasidic Jews make up the vast majority of Jews protesting in Israel against the Israeli government and the war in Gaza.

There also the issue that Jews around the world who have no links to Israel still get lumped in with the actions of Israel like no other faith does with a state of its faith with the possible exception of Islam, so to label a whole country racist and allow that opinion to become mainstream is dangerous for Jews around the world and we’re witnessing that in the UK with the rise in cases of anti semitism.

I was going to say something similar about sweeping statements like that

I’ve got to be honest, I’m glad I’m not a Jew living in this country at the moment. Things like Galloway, who’s a divisive figure especially on this specific subject*, being elected won’t be making them feel any more comfortable

*he’s usually careful with his wording but saying stuff in the past like declaring Bradford an Israel free zone sounds pretty antisemitic to me. Change the word ‘Israel’ to ‘Pakistan’ ‘China’ etc etc and a Tommy Robinson or a Nick Griffin saying it and maybe more would agree.

You might not agree with a country/states stance or action but you don’t hold it against all of its people. China as a state was involved in releasing covid the world (or certainly not doing a lot more to stop it) killing tens of millions and has been doing all sorts to hundred of thousands of Muslims, it doesn’t mean I disowned Chinese friends and stop going to the local takeaway etc

hamertime · Mar 1, 2024

SBT said:
They did in my experience. Maybe she just wasn’t that into you?

It’s definitely not that mate, I’ve got 100% success rate.

Ian1779 · Mar 1, 2024

CCFCSteve said:
I was going to say something similar about sweeping statements like that

I’ve got to be honest, I’m glad I’m not a Jew living in this country at the moment. Things like Galloway, who’s a divisive figure especially on this specific subject*, being elected won’t be making them feel any more comfortable

*he’s usually careful with his wording but saying stuff in the past like declaring Bradford an Israel free zone sounds pretty antisemitic to me. Change the word ‘Israel’ to ‘Pakistan’ ‘China’ etc etc and a Tommy Robinson or a Nick Griffin saying it and maybe more would agree.

You might not agree with a country/states stance or action but you don’t hold it against all of its people. China as a state was involved in releasing covid the world (or certainly not doing a lot more to stop it) killing tens of millions and has been doing all sorts to hundred of thousands of Muslims, it doesn’t mean I disowned Chinese friends and stop going to the local takeaway etc

Condemning the actions of a genocidal government such as the current Israeli incumbents is reasonable.
There is absolutely no reference to Judaism or Jews at all and to suggest that critique means the other is surely antisemitic itself?

clint van damme · Mar 1, 2024

skybluetony176 said:
I think it’s a bit of a sweeping statement to say Israel is a racist state. You can certainly say it about Netanyahu, his party and his electorate but Israel is a complicated country. They never have an outright majority at an election for starters so you can’t equate Israel as a whole to Netanyahu and his followers. Even within the Jewish faith you have lots of different types of Jews. Take Hasidic Jews for instance, the original anti Zionist who see the creation of a Jewish state as a direct threat to god, Hasidic Jews are also not required to do national service and key Hasidic Jews make up the vast majority of Jews protesting in Israel against the Israeli government and the war in Gaza.

There also the issue that Jews around the world who have no links to Israel still get lumped in with the actions of Israel like no other faith does with a state of its faith with the possible exception of Islam, so to label a whole country racist and allow that opinion to become mainstream is dangerous for Jews around the world and we’re witnessing that in the UK with the rise in cases of anti semitism.

I'm not lumping Jews in with Israel, I'm talking purely about the country of Israel.
Some of its biggest critics, as you point out, are Jews.

CCFCSteve · Mar 1, 2024

Ian1779 said:
Condemning the actions of a genocidal government such as the current Israeli incumbents is reasonable.
There is absolutely no reference to Judaism or Jews at all and to suggest that critique means the other is surely antisemitic itself?

Condemning the actions of the government/state is fine but

“We don’t want any Israeli goods. We don’t want any Israeli services. We don’t want any Israeli academics, coming to the university or the college.

“We don’t even want any Israeli tourists to come to Bradford, if any of them had thought of doing so.”

Hed previously walked out of an Oxford Union debate saying: “I don’t debate with Israelis.”

That isn’t just talking about the actions of a state, that’s talking about Israelis as a people. As I say, if that was about a different population people would rightly up in arms yet it’s somehow deemed acceptable. many Jewish people over here would be Israeli by birth or have relatives over there so if you take a step back you can maybe understand why they would feel a bit more uncomfortable today after the guy saying that just won a local election in the U.K.

chiefdave · Mar 1, 2024

CCFCSteve said:
We don’t want any Israeli goods. We don’t want any Israeli services. We don’t want any Israeli academics, coming to the university or the college.

We have similar happening with Russia at the moment yet I don’t hear many people taking issue with that

duffer · Mar 1, 2024

CCFCSteve said:
Condemning the actions of the government/state is fine but

“We don’t want any Israeli goods. We don’t want any Israeli services. We don’t want any Israeli academics, coming to the university or the college.

“We don’t even want any Israeli tourists to come to Bradford, if any of them had thought of doing so.”

Hed previously walked out of an Oxford Union debate saying: “I don’t debate with Israelis.”

That isn’t just talking about the actions of a state, that’s talking about Israelis as a people. As I say, if that was about a different population people would rightly up in arms yet it’s somehow deemed acceptable. many Jewish people over here would be Israeli by birth or have relatives over there so if you take a step back you can maybe understand why they would feel a bit more uncomfortable today after the guy saying that just won a local election in the U.K.

No doubt Galloway's an unpleasant arsehole, but if we're serious about influencing Israeli government policy, an economic, academic, and sporting boycott is probably the only lever available to us.

Criticism of the Israeli state should not be allowed to be conflated with anti-Semitism, and nor should it be allowed to become an excuse for it, imho.

clint van damme · Mar 1, 2024

CCFCSteve said:
Condemning the actions of the government/state is fine but

“We don’t want any Israeli goods. We don’t want any Israeli services. We don’t want any Israeli academics, coming to the university or the college.

“We don’t even want any Israeli tourists to come to Bradford, if any of them had thought of doing so.”

Hed previously walked out of an Oxford Union debate saying: “I don’t debate with Israelis.”

That isn’t just talking about the actions of a state, that’s talking about Israelis as a people. As I say, if that was about a different population people would rightly up in arms yet it’s somehow deemed acceptable. many Jewish people over here would be Israeli by birth or have relatives over there so if you take a step back you can maybe understand why they would feel a bit more uncomfortable today after the guy saying that just won a local election in the U.K.

We punish ordinary people all the time by imposing sanctions on their countries because of the leadership.
Israel are currently imposing colletive punishment on a whole nation with a death toll that includes 25k women and children.
I'll save my sympathy for them.

CCFCSteve · Mar 1, 2024

I’ll say it for the third time and then leave it. He said the people of Israel aren’t welcome here. That was 10 years ago and he was willing to say that in a public speech. God knows what he says behind closed doors these days.

It’s obvious that some find that acceptable, fair enough but I don’t.

shmmeee · Mar 1, 2024

Ian1779 said:
Condemning the actions of a genocidal government such as the current Israeli incumbents is reasonable.
There is absolutely no reference to Judaism or Jews at all and to suggest that critique means the other is surely antisemitic itself?

This is very much the lefts “Islam is a religion not a race” excuse. And on both sides Muslims and Jews jump to claims of bigotry to silence criticism and on both sides innocent, often secular people get attacked for no reason and on both sides criticism does become bigotry.

I’m not sure either take is particularly useful to any side. Tho also not sure how you tackle for example Israel policy or misogyny and homophobia in Islamic doctrine without letting the crazies in.

clint van damme · Mar 1, 2024

CCFCSteve said:
I’ll say it for the third time and then leave it. He said the people of Israel aren’t welcome here. That was 10 years ago and he was willing to say that in a public speech. God knows what he says behind closed doors these days.

It’s obvious that some find that acceptable, fair enough but I don’t.

You're conflating what Galloway said with actions been taken by many people concerned with the way Israel is behaving.
You won't find me defending Galloway, he's an arch opportunist like his pal Farage, though I still think the latter is far more dangerous but that's another argument.

shmmeee · Mar 1, 2024

clint van damme said:
You're conflating what Galloway said with actions been taken by many people concerned with the way Israel is behaving.
You won't find me defending Galloway, he's an arch opportunist like his pal Farage, though I still think the latter is far more dangerous but that's another argument.

As he would say himself. Two cheeks of the same arse. Both in the pockets of dictators and more concerned with themselves than their constituents. Just a couple of social media grifters, political Astrid Wetts

hamertime · Mar 1, 2024

Religion will be the death of this planet. It’s already held some countries back centuries, they are like the third world countries. Just leave them to it and stop poking our nose in other countries conflicts. Unless it affects us leave them to it.

CCFCSteve · Mar 1, 2024

clint van damme said:
You're conflating what Galloway said with actions been taken by many people concerned with the way Israel is behaving.
You won't find me defending Galloway, he's an arch opportunist like his pal Farage, though I still think the latter is far more dangerous but that's another argument.

Im not conflating anything though Clint. I was trying to explain how I thought galloways election win was likely to make Jewish people feel even more uncomfortable today ie Rochdale found it acceptable to vote for someone who had said stuff like he has.

People can argue whether it falls into their personal definition of ‘anti Semitic’ or not but either way to say a whole population isn’t welcome here is unacceptable in my book. He knew what he was inferring though

I could understand more some arguing that it would be acceptable if it was said last week and it was something like ‘We don’t even want any Israeli tourists here until they get rid of the government thats bombing innocent civilians’

But this was 10 years ago and there was no conditionality, just ‘we don’t want Israelis here’ (Bradford). That’s who Rochdale just voted for

Anyway, I promised myself not to get involved in this thread as it’s a rabbit hole and such a complex/messy/emotive issue. I should’ve just kept posts on Galloway to political thread but had to reply to a couple of comments on here. His election win is not good though

clint van damme · Mar 2, 2024

CCFCSteve said:
Im not conflating anything though Clint. I was trying to explain how I thought galloways election win was likely to make Jewish people feel even more uncomfortable today ie Rochdale found it acceptable to vote for someone who had said stuff like he has.

People can argue whether it falls into their personal definition of ‘anti Semitic’ or not but either way to say a whole population isn’t welcome here is unacceptable in my book. He knew what he was inferring though

I could understand more some arguing that it would be acceptable if it was said last week and it was something like ‘We don’t even want any Israeli tourists here until they get rid of the government thats bombing innocent civilians’

But this was 10 years ago and there was no conditionality, just ‘we don’t want Israelis here’ (Bradford). That’s who Rochdale just voted for

Anyway, I promised myself not to get involved in this thread as it’s a rabbit hole and such a complex/messy/emotive issue. I should’ve just kept posts on Galloway to political thread but had to reply to a couple of comments on here. His election win is not good though

Well you are conflating things because boycotting is a recognised and legitimate form of protest, (see apartheid South Africa) and is akin to sanctioning which is carried out by governments.
I agree about his 'don't want Isrealis' here comment,that's just racism.
I've made my feelings clear on him, I don't like him, but he's no worse than Anderson or Bravermann with their equally divisive rhetoric, at least Galloway hadn't had his rhetoric defended by senior government figures

Israel - Palestinian Conflict (16 Viewers)

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