It doesn't matter if it was a wild assault or a coordinated assassination, it doesn't matter if he was an innocent bystander or a top commander - it's a war crime
Israel - Palestinian Conflict (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter napolimp
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It doesn't matter if it was a wild assault or a coordinated assassination, it doesn't matter if he was an innocent bystander or a top commander - it's a war crime
CovInEssex
Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Of course the West had no role in propagating any of that
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So the post court case release of UNWRA stuff released by Isreal resulting in its defunding actually turns out to be well from 12 down to four.
Who'd have thought that it was good enough for Blinken and Co to accept without seeing it, not good enough for Sky news though who put a qualifier into it's coverage, of course when it gets qualified it may be too late.
Who'd have thought that it was good enough for Blinken and Co to accept without seeing it, not good enough for Sky news though who put a qualifier into it's coverage, of course when it gets qualified it may be too late.
duffer
Well-Known Member
I see where you're coming from, but reverse it and put a gang of Palestinians storming a hospital in Israel to neutralise an Israeli politician. Do you think that Israel wouldn't call it terrorism?
The one thing I would say is that it's better than bombing and killing innocent civilians in their tens of thousands and displacing and terrifying millions to try to eliminate Hamas. That is indisputably State terrorism if not actually attempted genocide.
duffer
Well-Known Member
The bat shit crazy religious extremists, Hamas, were actively encouraged to take control of Gaza by the Israeli Government of course. That should never, ever, be forgotten.
As for staying out of the middle east (or Ukraine), I'm afraid closing your eyes and hoping it will all go away isn't a particularly realistic (or moral) foreign policy.
Well Sunak and Shapps' plan of bombing Yeman to de-escalate everything is working well. So now we have Israel still bombing Gaza; the US bombing in Syria, Iraq and Yeman in one day and us joining in with the bombing of Yeman. Who would have thought bombing Middle Eastern countries or populations would not de-escalate things. When will the West learn?
Respect for recognising and acknowledging this.
Otis
Well-Known Member
I think people were wholly right to be incensed by that horrific Hamas attack on Israel, but the response has gone way, way beyond the pale. Utterly disgusting behaviour by the Israeli regime.
Genocide. And no-one is doing anything about it.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
No one can really
Well did the American wave through the $10 B subsidy?
Funny how the timing of it all suit's Trumps bid,favours and all that, pure evil!
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Sorry Pete but I dont agree.
There's plenty the US and Europe could do, (especially the US), stop sending them billions, stop allowing them influence over American politics that no other country is legally permitted, recognise the Palestinian state, criminalise settlers when they return, (admittedly not a Gaza issue), throw its weight behind the 2 state solution as agreed at the Oslo accord that the far right scuppered by assassinating Rabin.
Admittedly something would still need to be done about Hamas because I cant see how they can be part of a solution but whats happening now isnt the answer.
When the dust settles on this there will be those who opposed genocide and those that supported it.
Shame on all the western politicians who fall in to the latter category.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Your answer shows why my no one can really is right
Otis
Well-Known Member
Even if that's true, Pete, no-one is really condemning Israel from the West.
It's all very much "oh that's a little bit naughty and are you sure you should be doing this" kind of stuff.
The wording of any opposition is very meek and mild.
They are committing war crimes and that should be made abundantly clear and we need to stop all this "we stand with Israel" nonsense.
We have given them a carte blanche to do whatever they want with no repercussions.
The West has always backed Israel. Seen them as allies and friends. With what is happening now, this has to stop.
I know this is just words, but there should now be utter condemnation of what they are doing.
This has gone way beyond retaliation and defence and protection. This is wiping out an entire population.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Genocide Joe just uttered a few meally mouthed words while at the same time giving them 14 billion dollars, you think withholding that wouldn't have an effect on proceedings?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I can say this cause you know I’m a good man
I have friends who are Israeli who know friends and family who have been murdered or are friends and family of those that have been murdered
I also have a wider set of friends who I rarely agree with who propose a different set of beliefs and morals than most of us and they challenge things i hold as foundational to who I am and the society I believe enables human beings to flourish in.
They have asked me to question how the media is reporting the Middle East and the prevailing wisdom of the situation which is hard for
My wife has been to Israel and Palestine and works with schools there who build connections across the divides ffs
Im also reading dominion by Tom Holland how Christianity has not only shaped laws but the way we think and act and what we hold dear
It’s not a human thing to value life or be abhorred by child sacrifice or to believe in education and healthcare for all or that rich is good or bad or that poor people deserve help. There’s a reason that’s what we hold dear to a civilised nation is what it is
So I’ve been thinking a lot at how independent some of the un charities are whether it’s ok for us to expect Israel to care more about civilians than Hamas and the double standards of how we involve ourselves in acts of aggression and how we value some lives less than other lives which we absolutely do based on our actions in my lifetime around the world and obviously in our country where money and power are all that matters
Where do I end up? Utterly confused and scared for my wellness. Have so much going on (much of which I choose to take on cause it matters - prison, family, church etc. if there is no commonality in my family about the right thing to do or how we might agree on the right thing to do then what hope have I on my work team? Or any other group I’m part of or our society in coventry or the uk or Europe or the west or the world
I want to be a force for good but I’m not sure I am - does that make sense? And if I’m not sure am I best just to hide in a hole and manage myself rather than dare to believe I have any good to offer others.
Probably better for a counsellor than a message board! Lol sorry
Just listening to this on the train and have tears in my eyes -
Laughingly it’s entitled ‘identity’
Anyway any answers much appreciated
Why aren’t families moving to safer areas in Gaza? Why aren’t the un making sure there are safe areas? Why aren’t the us demanding there are safe areas
Why can’t our government condemn the Hamas actions and Israel’s response outright? Actually I think I know that one because we see ourselves as Israel and not Palestine and in a similar situation we’d expect to be able to act how we wish as we’ve proved in Iraq and Syria
It’s the anniversary of the monstrous attack on Dresden today. Why don’t we ever learn!!
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I’m sorry I think that he can’t do that - of course even the threat of withholding that in reality would make a difference. It would most likely lose him and the democrats the election to come and unfortunately that’s more important to him than 28000 Palestinians
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
You are a good man Pete, I dont think anyone could argue otherwise even if we don't always agree
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
It’s ok thank you I don’t need that but thank you
You and Otis are so right but I think there’s a missing piece in our narrative over here and that’s there is no solution if those in power don’t want there to be one
I am impressed however with whoever is in charge in the West Bank and whoever is managing to stay the hand of other to not get involved
It can’t be long now before Iran put their money where there mouth is
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
It is genocide .
Growing up I learned about the holocaust and the way Jewish people were treated etc. I was always somewhat sympathetic to Israel ever since and although I never understood the middle east I empathised with Israel's obsession with a strong military, given the history of it's people.
In less than 4 months that's all gone. I can't help but compare what Israel is doing to what the Nazis did. They want to eradicate all Palestinians and the more they kill.in the name of freeing the hostages the better. The western world sits by and lets it happen .
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
America is paying lip service only. Repeatedly saying this is the line in the sand don’t cross it, okay, this is the line in the sand don’t cross it. Rinse and repeat. Would the US be stronger if it wasn’t election year? Who knows. The only thing we can be sure of is Trump would be weaker/more pro Palestinian. You have to remember that it was Trump who abandoned decades of international standards by moving the US Israeli embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv, essentially recognising Jerusalem as Israeli territory and capital.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
It is genocide
If the IRA had taken hostages during the troubles and the British govt had sanctioned the armed forces to raze, if necessary, all catholic areas of Belfast, Derry etc to the ground in the " process" of finding the hostages it would have been viewed as an attempt to wipe out the catholic population of Northern Ireland
This is worse. There are over 20,000 dead. .
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
We did round up catholics and intern them without charge alan
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
It was an ill thought out, and arguably self defeating policy, but I don't think any comparison can be drawn with what's going on in Gaza.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
There really is not much that can be done. Israel has the US sewn up politically. People are getting cancelled/sacked just for supporting Palestine, they are so far from the government being able to. The religious right want a war in the Middle East so Jesus can come back or whatever, the neocons just want to kill some ay-rabs and the dems are in an election year and full of Israel supporters otherwise. There’s a huge and very loud Jewish community over there that will jump on anything that’s not 100% support.
The Israel support money was tied to border control and Ukraine and was a package of stuff both sides put together to stop any bit of it being cancelled.
Same to a large extent here but replace religion with just not liking Muslims. But nothing the UK does or says is going to stop them and we don’t have the level of funding to withdraw that would make a difference.
I honestly think Nethenyahu has made the calculation that no one will stop him and the world will forget once Gaza is gone. I’m not sure the Arab bit of the world will though.
The Israel support money was tied to border control and Ukraine and was a package of stuff both sides put together to stop any bit of it being cancelled.
Same to a large extent here but replace religion with just not liking Muslims. But nothing the UK does or says is going to stop them and we don’t have the level of funding to withdraw that would make a difference.
I honestly think Nethenyahu has made the calculation that no one will stop him and the world will forget once Gaza is gone. I’m not sure the Arab bit of the world will though.
OffenhamSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
I might use their definition of self-defence in my upcoming court case. Someone beat me up, so i sat on it and pondered for a fairly long period, then went and hunted the bastard down and stabbed him and his entire village to death. But no, t wasn't murder, it was self-defence.
They surely cannot hold on to that rhetoric any longer, and the West still kow-tow to them just because of history. I thought Tony Blair was a war criminal after the WMD issue, but fuck me, Netanyahu is on another level.
They surely cannot hold on to that rhetoric any longer, and the West still kow-tow to them just because of history. I thought Tony Blair was a war criminal after the WMD issue, but fuck me, Netanyahu is on another level.
OffenhamSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
Palestine has a right to exist. WE arranged for it to be stolen from the Palestinians in the first place. The least we can do is to defend them from being wiped off the map altogether.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
How tho?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
We might not be able to stop what's happening but we can put ourselves on the right side of history by not being complicit.
A lot of MPs in this country need a good look at themselves.
It's nearly 30,000 and likely to rise substantially unless something happens to alleviate the situation soon.
And the irony is the more Israel attacks and exerts its vengeance, the worse it will be for future generations of Israelis. Netanyahu and his extremists probably even know this but don't care. This is what you get with populist leaders.
