Impact on Local Businesses of CCFC Move to Birmingham (5 Viewers)

shmmeee · Mar 4, 2020

pastythegreat said:
Just for some idea, Sheffield council estimated that them getting promoted to the premier league was worth approx an extra £4m for the local community.
That's extra, not worth £4m, an EXTRA £4m from whatever it would of been in the Championship. Through extra tourism, more away fans, more TV coverage (how tv coverage helps the local community I dont know but hey ho).

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That’s mostly increased prominence of the City (when my Dad used to do trade trips he’d always take CCFC stuff as we were the one things foreign people had heard of about the City as a top flight team and football is universal aside from the states) and increased away followings. It’s the away fans that make the difference. Home fans are likely just doing something else locally if they aren’t at the game so the money doesn’t leave the local economy.

For context Sheffield’s GVA is £11.3 billion. Coventrys is £7.7bn.

So a £4m uplift is an increase of 0.035%. Which is still double Boris’ US trade deal, but hardly massive.

Nick · Mar 4, 2020

mark82 said:
I wouldn't be surprised if it's significantly more than that across the community.

Asked the Posh owner and he says it would be a £7m loss to Peterborough if the football club wasn't there.

mark82 · Mar 4, 2020

Nick said:

That's a pretty quick response.

Nick · Mar 4, 2020

shmmeee said:
Home fans are likely just doing something else locally if they aren’t at the game so the money doesn’t leave the local economy.

At the minute though a lot of money is going into the Brum economy instead? Car parks, pubs there needing additional staff etc. Christ, even the burger van has twice as many matchdays so is making loads more money.

I find myself going to the pub more before a game in Brum than I did when we were at the Ricoh.

clint van damme · Mar 4, 2020

shmmeee said:
That’s mostly increased prominence of the City (when my Dad used to do trade trips he’d always take CCFC stuff as we were the one things foreign people had heard of about the City as a top flight team and football is universal aside from the states) and increased away followings. It’s the away fans that make the difference. Home fans are likely just doing something else locally if they aren’t at the game so the money doesn’t leave the local economy.

For context Sheffield’s GVA is £11.3 billion. Coventrys is £7.7bn.

So a £4m uplift is an increase of 0.035%. Which is still double Boris’ US trade deal, but hardly massive.

But half (ish) our crowd is now spending their money in Birmingham.

The vast majority of my home match day spending is now in Brum.

Nick · Mar 4, 2020

clint van damme said:
But half (ish) our crowd is now spending their money in Birmingham.

The vast majority of my home match day spending is now in Brum.

Exactly, so are the away fans. They are all getting the train or driving to Bham and spending money there instead.

To palm it away and say "its ok everybody will be still spending that money here" is madness and what Duggins seems to think.

clint van damme · Mar 4, 2020

Nick said:
Exactly, so are the away fans. They are all getting the train or driving to Bham and spending money there instead.

To palm it away and say "its ok everybody will be still spending that money here" is madness and what Duggins seems to think.

Even the mini bus we used to get was a small local business now my travel money goes to Avanti.

shmmeee · Mar 4, 2020

clint van damme said:
But half (ish) our crowd is now spending their money in Birmingham.

The vast majority of my home match day spending is now in Brum.

Oh yeah for us that’s definitely an issue. Just responding to the £4m for promotion to the Prem thing.

For us I’d guess you’d have to work out what those going to Brum spend and subtract it. Parking/travel and food are the main ones I guess.

Nick · Mar 4, 2020

shmmeee said:
Oh yeah for us that’s definitely an issue. Just responding to the £4m for promotion to the Prem thing.

For us I’d guess you’d have to work out what those going to Brum spend and subtract it. Parking and food are the main ones I guess.

The promotion to the prem point was more if we get promoted and play in Brum. It would just mean more money for the Brum economy instead.

Warwickhunt · Mar 4, 2020

The R.A.O.B club closed down because of a down turn in members and trade and was reported to have just kept its head above water with the Football Fans using the Car park and dropping in for a drink before the match, The Committee decided to call it a day as far as I know.

Warwickhunt · Mar 4, 2020

The Crown on the Windmill Road has been effected as well I believe

wingy · Mar 4, 2020

Warwickhunt said:
The R.A.O.B club closed down because of a down turn in members and trade and was reported to have just kept its head above water with the Football Fans using the Car park and dropping in for a drink before the match, The Committee decided to call it a day as far as I know.

Probably got a decent inducement to go for it too I'd assume.

SkyBlueSoul · Mar 4, 2020

Jcap said:
Why don’t you ask someone at one of the Universities to do some research? Warwick has a business school no? Surely this would be of interest to someone in that field? Anyone on here with any contacts? Could even use anything useful coming out of it to put in front of the various parties especially the council, to help motivate them to get back round the table?

I used to work there on the admin side, it's easiest and probably best to get in touch with the group administrator for an academic group rather than trawling through the 30+ academics' research interests.

Nicki Pegg is GA for the Finance group (Nicki.Pegg@wbs.ac.uk), guessing that would be a good place to start. Being on the admin side she won't know much specifically about their areas of research but will be best placed to ask.

shmmeee · Mar 4, 2020

We’ve got a contact at WBS, we get their students to do projects for us. Though they tend to put out a call for projects once or twice a year rather than as hoc stuff.

SkyBlueSoul · Mar 4, 2020

shmmeee said:
We’ve got a contact at WBS, we get their students to do projects for us. Though they tend to put out a call for projects once or twice a year rather than as hoc stuff.

In a similar vein, I can't see academics dropping what they're doing to compile a report for us when their job depends on them doing their own research and getting published in peer-reviewed journals. Might as well ask though, we could get pointed in the right direction.

University of Liverpool might be a good one to look at too, they have a Sports Business department where that Kieran Maguire works.

shmmeee · Mar 4, 2020

SkyBlueSoul said:
In a similar vein, I can't see academics dropping what they're doing to compile a report for us when their job depends on them doing their own research and getting published in peer-reviewed journals. Might as well ask though, we could get pointed in the right direction.

University of Liverpool might be a good one to look at too, they have a Sports Business department where that Kieran Maguire works.

Oll see if I can get a contact.

wingy · Mar 4, 2020

There'll be plenty of historical stuff .
Not like we ain't been here before.
Groundhog Day.

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 4, 2020

Now, I don't disagree that this argument has merit, but...

It's also the argument for bringing Wasps in in the first place, and for encouraging both teams to work together at the Ricoh long-term. Of course the figures aren't absolute, either - Wasps coming in wouldn't have been a total uplift as they'd have taken some from us rather than it being a both, and us coming back would now take some things from Wasps.

If I were CCC, I'd be arguing that due to the actions of our owners, Wasps were the hedge that were brought in to cover said loss, and that due to the actions of our owners, Wasps are more reliable partners.

Now, I'm by no means saying don't use the argument, but do think about how you'll cover how it'll be used against you. I'd argue the main case you have to make is the potential from a successful football club is far more. Not only that, but in terms of the intangibles (identity and association with the city) CCFC have something there that no other sporting club have.

gary_ccfcforever · Mar 4, 2020

mark82 said:
Thanks Gary. Do you have an email for Dal that you could send to me on a private message?

Hi Mark, you can email Dal on Info@dhillonsbrewery.com. That email address goes straight to him. I've let him know and he said he is happy to assist

Nick · Mar 4, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
Now, I don't disagree that this argument has merit, but...

It's also the argument for bringing Wasps in in the first place, and for encouraging both teams to work together at the Ricoh long-term. Of course the figures aren't absolute, either - Wasps coming in wouldn't have been a total uplift as they'd have taken some from us rather than it being a both, and us coming back would now take some things from Wasps.

If I were CCC, I'd be arguing that due to the actions of our owners, Wasps were the hedge that were brought in to cover said loss, and that due to the actions of our owners, Wasps are more reliable partners.

Now, I'm by no means saying don't use the argument, but do think about how you'll cover how it'll be used against you. I'd argue the main case you have to make is the potential from a successful football club is far more. Not only that, but in terms of the intangibles (identity and association with the city) CCFC have something there that no other sporting club have.

Reliable enough to go back on the training ground that was going to bring money into the Coventry economy?

Grendel · Mar 4, 2020

mark82 said:
I've seen something on Twitter that suggests one business local to the Ricoh Arena (Bull & Anchor) has lost revenue to the tune of £25k per match day while we've been away. That's staggering. I'm going to reach out to them to verify as part of what myself & Pete are doing, but got me wondering how many other businesses are feeling that kind of strain.

I'm not local anymore, and don't often drink/use businesses near the Ricoh personally when I attend games, so was looking for suggestions of others I could reach out to, to see if they'll provide some sort of impact on their business and then use it to apply pressure in discussions with all parties involved. Let me know of any local businesses you tend to use near the Ricoh on game days, whether it's for drinking, car parking or anything else.

I'll keep a running list:

Bull & Anchor
Dhillons Brewery
Casino / Hotel
Frankie and Bennies
Burger King
Pizza Hut
Chiquitos
The Hub Pub
Cov Welsh Rugby Club
Gas Club
The Cherry Tree
New Horseshoe
Byatt's Brewery
The Parkgate

If you want to calculate the total there’s an economic impact calculator that councils use for additional crowds coming in for events

For consistency I’d suggest you use this

I’m sure someone on here has council connections and can phone a friend to ask what the formula is

ccfc1234 · Mar 4, 2020

When you finalise the figures it hopefully will concern the Council who should be catalysts for local economic prosperity in the city.

SkyBlueSoul · Mar 4, 2020

Grendel said:
If you want to calculate the total there’s an economic impact calculator that councils use for additional crowds coming in for events

For consistency I’d suggest you use this

I’m sure someone on here has council connections and can phone a friend to ask what the formula is

Not official but would something like this help? Economic Impact Calculator | Event Impacts

Macca1987 · Mar 4, 2020

There’s The Craftsman as well. My lad works behind the bar and mentioned previously that Paul the gaffer was losing money with the move to St Andrews, not sure how much though

Liquid Gold · Mar 4, 2020

Every time there are closures announced in the city all social media should be flooded with this.

Bear in mind that we had much higher attendances than Peterborough. At Darragh’s estimate it works out at around £950 per head for their average of 7364. If the same is true of us then ours being 12,363 then it’s £11,750,000.

the government is cutting council funding to the bone and at the same time they’re refusing to assist in bringing multi million pound revenue to the local area.

Suffolkskyblue · Mar 4, 2020

mark82 said:
I've seen something on Twitter that suggests one business local to the Ricoh Arena (Bull & Anchor) has lost revenue to the tune of £25k per match day while we've been away. That's staggering. I'm going to reach out to them to verify as part of what myself & Pete are doing, but got me wondering how many other businesses are feeling that kind of strain.

I'm not local anymore, and don't often drink/use businesses near the Ricoh personally when I attend games, so was looking for suggestions of others I could reach out to, to see if they'll provide some sort of impact on their business and then use it to apply pressure in discussions with all parties involved. Let me know of any local businesses you tend to use near the Ricoh on game days, whether it's for drinking, car parking or anything else.

I'll keep a running list:

Bull & Anchor
Dhillons Brewery
Casino / Hotel
Frankie and Bennies
Burger King
Pizza Hut
Chiquitos
The Hub Pub
Cov Welsh Rugby Club
Gas Club
The Cherry Tree
New Horseshoe
Byatt's Brewery
The Parkgate

St Finbars - parking and drinks

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nick · Mar 4, 2020

Liquid Gold said:
Every time there are closures announced in the city all social media should be flooded with this.

Bear in mind that we had much higher attendances than Peterborough. At Darragh’s estimate it works out at around £950 per head for their average of 7364. If the same is true of us then ours being 12,363 then it’s £11,750,000.

the government is cutting council funding to the bone and at the same time they’re refusing to assist in bringing multi million pound revenue to the local area.

To be fair to George, he did battle to keep the Aldi open.

Liquid Gold · Mar 4, 2020

Nick said:
To be fair to George, he did battle to keep the Aldi open.

Which shows the argument that there is nothing they can do to be nonsense. When Pete meets with him he should be armed with all these figures.

Nick · Mar 4, 2020

Liquid Gold said:
Which shows the argument that there is nothing they can do to be nonsense. When Pete meets with him he should be armed with all these figures.

Supermarket bosses told of ‘massive blow to the community’ | Coventry City Council

pusbccfc · Mar 4, 2020

Coventry tourism brings in £84million a year, new figures show

In 2014, Cov had 590,000 visitors.

If we were promoted to the championship, and averaged 2000 away fans for approx 26 home games (league and cup), that alone would be 52,000 visitors from outside of Coventry.

That is without taking into consideration CCFC supporters living outside of the city visiting Coventry who rather than travelling to Coventry every other week, they are now in Birmingham.

Granted, some away fans come by coach and may not pump money into local businesses, but many come by train early. They would spend hours in local pubs before hopping into a taxi or taking a bus to get to the Ricoh.

Liquid Gold · Mar 4, 2020

pusbccfc said:
Coventry tourism brings in £84million a year, new figures show

In 2014, Cov had 590,000 visitors.

If we were promoted to the championship, and averaged 2000 away fans for approx 26 home games (league and cup), that alone would be 52,000 visitors from outside of Coventry.

That is without taking into consideration CCFC supporters living outside of the city visiting Coventry who rather than travelling to Coventry every other week, they are now in Birmingham.

Granted, some away fans come by coach and may not pump money into local businesses, but many come by train early. They would spend hours in local pubs before hopping into a taxi or taking a bus to get to the Ricoh.

It’s not just my lot travelling from the south west though. When people think of supporters outside the city they’re picturing those in London, up north etc. There are loads of city fans in Warwickshire which even if they aren’t going to Brum still aren’t going into the city and spending money there.

Somerset Sky Blue · Mar 4, 2020

pusbccfc said:
Coventry tourism brings in £84million a year, new figures show

In 2014, Cov had 590,000 visitors.

If we were promoted to the championship, and averaged 2000 away fans for approx 26 home games (league and cup), that alone would be 52,000 visitors from outside of Coventry.

That is without taking into consideration CCFC supporters living outside of the city visiting Coventry who rather than travelling to Coventry every other week, they are now in Birmingham.

Granted, some away fans come by coach and may not pump money into local businesses, but many come by train early. They would spend hours in local pubs before hopping into a taxi or taking a bus to get to the Ricoh.

Good points, especially about the city fans who don't live in Coventry.
I still visit relatives, but don't stay as long,visit shopping area (Tesco arena park), food outlets or car parking. Less likely to use a petrol station in Coventry, when I've come Somerset to Brum!

Somerset Sky Blue · Mar 4, 2020

Liquid Gold said:
It’s not just my lot travelling from the south west though. When people think of supporters outside the city they’re picturing those in London, up north etc. There are loads of city fans in Warwickshire which even if they aren’t going to Brum still aren’t going into the city and spending money there.

I was writing my response at same time, not southwest mafia contacting each other!

ccfcway · Mar 4, 2020

Nick said:
I find myself going to the pub more before a game in Brum than I did when we were at the Ricoh.

spot on. Everyone i know who goes treat it like an away day. They are in city centre birmingham pubs drinking at midday on a sat and back on it after the game in birmingham

At the ricoh, they would have rocked up to the ground at 2:45 and a few beers afterwards

Londonccfcfan · Mar 4, 2020

mark82 said:
I've seen something on Twitter that suggests one business local to the Ricoh Arena (Bull & Anchor) has lost revenue to the tune of £25k per match day while we've been away. That's staggering. I'm going to reach out to them to verify as part of what myself & Pete are doing, but got me wondering how many other businesses are feeling that kind of strain.

I'm not local anymore, and don't often drink/use businesses near the Ricoh personally when I attend games, so was looking for suggestions of others I could reach out to, to see if they'll provide some sort of impact on their business and then use it to apply pressure in discussions with all parties involved. Let me know of any local businesses you tend to use near the Ricoh on game days, whether it's for drinking, car parking or anything else.

I'll keep a running list:

Bull & Anchor
Dhillons Brewery
Casino / Hotel
Frankie and Bennies
Burger King
Pizza Hut
Chiquitos
The Hub Pub
Cov Welsh Rugby Club
Gas Club
The Cherry Tree
New Horseshoe
Byatt's Brewery
The Parkgate

The Novotel will have impacted on a Saturday, ive stayed there couple of times and it’s always seemed to have decent amount of away fans staying there also on a Saturday. Doubt there’s many business customers on that day. Also the car park there.

Impact on Local Businesses of CCFC Move to Birmingham (5 Viewers)

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